nature/culture

[Mary C. Simmons, Hydrologic Assistant, Albuquerque, NM]

Philip Shepard, I think you are projecting a lot of things into my argument 
that I neither put there nor intended to be there.  For instance, I had not 
used the term "moral standing", nor "freedom", nor "privilege"--I used only 
"choice" as one noteworthy aspect of a possible difference between culture and 
nature. 

 Humans have choice insofar as WHAT the culture is organized around.  We have 
less choice about what we will comply with or agree to when it comes to 
nature.  For instance, we cannot dump poison into our water supply and expect 
it not to matter.  We can choose NOT to dump the poison, but we cannot choose 
to ignore the effects.  

Nor did I say that ONLY humans have choice--but I DO think we have more.  We 
have the choice to defy gravity (at least temporarily), by the use of objects 
we make with our hands, as well as a helluva lot of energy.  We have the 
choice NOT to pollute, by use of reason and observation.  Cows in West Texas 
have no such choice NOT to pollute their drinking water--indeed they don't 
seem to notice that they are pissing in the same water they are drinking, or 
that the feedlots they live in drain into the playas they drink from--having 
choice sort of implies KNOWING that there are alternatives, does it not?. 

"Freedom, rights or privilege with or without choice" is entirely a 
philosophical human construction, IMHO.  Those cows have the freedom to NOT 
piss in their drinking water (no one would stop them), have the "privilege" of 
an abundant food supply without the bother of getting it themselves, or 
choosing what it is, where it came from, how it was grown, etc. Cows have very 
limited choices.  Correct me please if I am wrong.

So, these arguments may be a bit too philosophical for me (although I DO agree 
that there are "deep philosophical aspects" to environmental issues), as mine 
are perhaps a bit too scientific for you (I am asking you to see the "deep 
scientific aspects" as well).  We DO need both arguments (hate that either/or 
stuff).  You address the moral standing issues and I will listen and try not 
to be too persnickety about how anthropomorphic you may appear to be with 
regard to rocks.  I'll keep reminding you that there are certain inalienable 
natural laws in which we have NO choice whether or not we will comply.   It is 
my view that the natural world IS run by, constrained by, and dictated by the 
laws of nature.  I would not however, make any claim that these are the ONLY 
truths.  
 
Therefore, I do not advocate the "exclusivity of scientific truth"--there are 
many truths outside the realm of science.  I know scientists can be pretty 
didactic about truth, in spite of the long history of being wrong time after 
time--still there are certain natural laws we will not overcome, no matter how 
much freedom, choice, privilege, rights or money we have (F=ma for instance).  
I REALLY am just asking environmentalists to be scientifically literate.  We 
must be grounded in reality, in the natural world.

I would also like to point out the big difference between science and 
technology......technology USES science, often very destructively.  Science 
only tells us what is (or appears to be)--if science is often wrong, so are 
all other areas of human thought, and we address them as time goes by.  If 
technology is "wrong", we have a larger problem to deal with.


Yesterday I might have thought that you were buying too deeply into the 
culture of philosophy..........but now I wonder what IS this view of 
environmental issues, and what do you mean when you allude to "moral 
standing?"  I feel like you have been having this argument for some time and I 
have inadvertantly stumbled into it.

I think in my soul, I am an artist who learned to love the natural world from 
a scientific perspective.  And it IS awesome--more full of wonder and hidden 
truth than I ever imagined.  


Scientifically yours

Mary
_________________________________________________________________________
Mary Simmons
U.S. Geological Survey, Water Resources Division  
Albuquerque, New Mexico 
(505)262-5332
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

_________________________________________________________________________
Mary Simmons
U.S. Geological Survey, Water Resources Division  
Albuquerque, New Mexico 
(505)262-5332
[EMAIL PROTECTED]