> On other subjects: re: anti-Christian rant. . . . Excuse 2000
> years of oppression, a book full of mysogyny, racialism and
> homophobia, the KKK, pro-lifers, the Vatican, etc etc, and what have
> you left ?
As an agnostic with Unitarian/Quaker leanings, I disagree. First of all, the
implication that Christians share the values of the KKK is quite an offensive
generalization. Just because people *claim* to do things in the name of the
Bible does not make them consistent with widely-held Christian values. If
you're interested, I would recommend reading some of Marcus Borg's work. He
is a fairly progressive theologian who has written several books on the
"historical Jesus." They provide some insight into how Christianity has
changed over the ages and what it might have meant in the beginning, before
politics and ignorance began to shape it into the form that many perceive
today.
I know it's almost impossible to talk without generalizing, but
condemning entire groups at one swipe is really *not* cool, especially coming
from people who claim to be educated and open-minded. As long as we're
painting with a broad brush, we might as well condemn the entire human race
for something or other. I can't think of any specific group (except maybe
those saintly pygmies) that is exempt from criticism. Many of the groups
that open-minded folk idealize are actually "guilty" (if it can be called
that...that's an ethnocentric notion) of actions that "we" (whoever we
are...I feel a need to qualify every remark these days) would think of as
evil. The natives of the Oregon coast kept slaves, kidnapped from other
villages and taken in war. The Huron used to peel the skin off their live
victims while everyone stood around enjoying the spectacle. These nations
also had lived in sustainable harmony with the earth, at least as far as we
know. I guess my point is that nobody has a monopoly on "evil," and nobody,
probably not even the pygmies, has a monopoly on "virtue." I know *many*
Christians who are wonderful, open-minded, caring people. There are several
Mennonite groups that travel the country rebuilding peoples' homes after
disasters (whether they be Christian, agnostic, atheistic, whatever). There
are several churches and meeting-houses in my community that are extremely
politically progressive---active in gay/lesbian rights issues, economic
equity, and other areas. And I know *many* Christians who are appalled at
the actions of the ultra-conservative fundamentalists, and who do not
consider their actions "Christian" at all.
> So far no Americans have stepped forward to defend or even discuss
> the fact that most of their compatriots believe in Adam and Eve.
> Indeed, we saw from the DV posting that lots of people tried to tell
> the poor woman that her victimisation by husband and state alike was
> 'God's Will' !
While I know there are people around who feel that way (perhaps the same
people who feel like AIDS is God's punishment for "immorality"), I have never
known any myself...thank the God/dess. My little slice of the U.S. (which is
academic and atypical) is *not* crawling with Christian fundamentalists, and
nowhere I've lived in my life, except perhaps for Mill City, OR, has been.
But they *are* out there (the Oregon Citizen's Alliance, which frequently
puts anti-gay measures on the ballot, is proof. However, *so far* all of the
OCA's measures have been voted down). Still, I have a very hard time
believing that "most" of my compatriots believe in the literal story of Adam
and Eve. If that's true, it's pretty sad, and I think it speaks to our
country's lack of investment in education, among other things.
Jennifer in Corvallis, Oregon
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Oct 11 12:51:14 1996
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 11:53:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Laura Franklund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: NOTABLE WOMEN
In-Reply-To: <v01510106ae811ac476bd@[203.59.25.210]>
Hi everyone. I am mostly an observer of the list, but I have a 10 page
paper and presentation to do and I was wondering if anyone had any
suggestions of "notable figures in the developement of natural history
and evolution" I have a couple of names that I don't recognize as well-
Jane Lubchenco and Deborah Rabinowitz. I can't find them in the library at
Evergreen State College and thought one of you MUST know who they are. My
teacher is oriented in the ecology direction and I would like to find a
person to write about that is also sort of holistic-thinking. I like to
write about the interconnectedness of things in the world. Thanks if
anyone has any suggestions. -Laura Franklund, Olympia, Wa. USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Oct 12 11:46:05 1996
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 10:45:02 +0100
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: some Bible quotes
I can't fault all christians...I've met some who really were decent
people....but, here are just a few quotes from their book someone sent me
recently:
>Genesis
>
>
>(1:1,16) God created the earth, then the sun, then the stars.
>(1:26) God gave humanity nature to "rule over."
>(1:28) "Be fruitful and multiply & fill the earth and subdue it."
>(2:25) Man & wife were naked and not ashamed.
>(3:16) Woman's sin caused pain in childbirth and caused god to say:
>"Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you."
>(3:17-19) Man's sin is the basis for all agricultural problems.
>(7:21-22) God "blotted out every living thing on the face of the land."
>(11:8-9) God destroyed language and civilization (babel).
>(19:31-36) Lot's sodom-doomed daughters get him drunk and take him to bed.
>(20:12) Abraham was married to his half-sister.
>
>
>Exodus
>
>
>(2:12) Moses kills an Egyptian.
>
>
>Leviticus - a ruling class?
>
>
>(20:9) Kill a man who curses his parents.
>(20:10) Kill adulterers.
>(20:11-12) Kill anyone guilty of incest.
>(20:13) Kill any man who commits a homosexual act.
>(20:14) Kill any man who marries a woman & her mother.
>(20:15) Kill any man who lies with an animal, and kill the animal.
>(20:16) Kill any woman who lies with an animal, and kill the animal.
>(20:17) If a man sees his sister's nakedness and she sees his, they shall
>be cut off.
>(20:18) If a man lies with a menstruating woman, they shall be cut off.
>(20:27) Stone mediums and spiritists to death.
>(22:10-11) Condones slavery.
>(24:20) Eye for an eye.
>(26:15-17) The penalty for disobedience - disease and death.
>
>
>Numbers
>
>
>(5:12-3 1) Wife under authority of husband. -Adultery test: woman drinks
>"water of bitterness": If guilty, her abdomen will swell and her thighs will
>waste away- Moreover, the man shall be free from guilt but that woman shall
>bear her guilt-
>(12)Moses' humility and greatness.
>(15:32-36) Sabbath breaking punished with stoning.
>(16:20-24) Moses reminds god that he is about to mass murder thousands of
>innocent victims.
>(16:29-35) Crushing Korah's rebellion.
>(25:7-8) The zeal of Phineas kills a man and woman with a javelin.
>(30:29-30) The death penalty: a statutory ordinance throughout your
>generations.
>
>
>Deuteronomy
>
>
>(21:18-21) Kill any rebellious son.
>(22:22-28) Rapist forced to marry victim; killing is essential to purge
>evil of adultery.
>(25:1-10) Beat criminals with 40 stripes, man must marry dead brother's wife.
>(25:11-12) Cut hand off.
>(28:15-45) Destruction for disobedience.
>(29:19-21) An unforgiving god.
>(34:12) The mighty power and great terror which Moses performed.
>
>
>Judges
>
>
>(6:27-28) Desecration of other religions condoned.
>
>
>I Samuel
>
>
>(18:7) Sacred mutilation - David has slain his tens of thousands.
>
>
>Psalms
>
>
>(137:9) David's blessing for smashing little children's heads against rocks.
>
>
>Ecclesiastes
>
>
>(8:4-5) Never disagree with a king.
>(9:2-5) No poetic justice. The dead know nothing.
>
>
>Isaiah
>
>
>(13:9-21) The fiery anger of god.
>
>
>Jeremiah
>
>
>(16) More fiery anger.
>
>
>Lamentations
>
>
>More of the same
>
>
>Ezekiel
>
>
>(3:17-20) Is life sacred?
>(4:9-17) Deliberate defiling.
>
>
>Matthew
>
>
>(10:34-40) Blessed are the peace-makers?
>(15:21-27) Bigotry?
>(19:9-12) Against 2nd marriage: promoting virginity for salvation.
>
>
>Mark
>
>
>(9:43) Cut off offending organ. Hell.
>(10:1-12) Jesus denounces divorce.
>
>
>Luke
>
>
>(12:49-59) Jesus: "Do you think I have come to bring peace on Earth?
>No, I tell you, but rather division". (The King James version is particularly
>disgusting.)
>
>
>(19:27) Jesus: "Bring my enemies here and slay them before me".
>
>
>John
>
>
>(8:3-1 1) Jesus saved adulterous woman.
>(10:22-42) Jesus' deity.
>(14:6) Jesus: way, truth, light.
>
>
>Romans
>
>
>(1:27-32) Homosexuality denounced.
>
>
>I Corinthians
>
>
>(II: 1-15- 15) Social order: man is head of woman, woman originates
>from man, man not created for woman's sake but woman created for man's sake.
>
>
>I John
>
>
>(3:7-12) Christians don't sin.
>
>
>Revelation
>
>
>(20:10)(21:8) Fire and brimstone
>
>
>
>IS IT LOGICAL?
e ya,
-michael
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://michele.gcccd.cc.ca.us/~mgolden/
Michael Golden
Institute for the study of:
Organic Evolution and the Equitable Distribution of Wealth
Department of Biology
Grossmont College
8800 Grossmont College Drive
El Cajon, CA 92020
619.465.1700 x332 VOICE MAIL: x3064
