Malcolm,
How often do you make sweeping generalizations with an N of 1?
I don't see any substantial difference here, anyway. In forestry, you
want to make bigger logs faster -- so what's the difference in concept
in an Ed.D. wanting to make smarter students? In both cases, you are
relating academic knowledge to professional practice.
Dave
malcolm McCallum wrote:
Below are a comparison of the requirements for an Ed.D., Ph.D. in
education, and the Ph.D. in natural resources & environmental sciences
form the University of Illinois. I got these from U of I because as
an AAU member it is among the elite of universities and because I knew
it had all three degrees offered, and that they were recognized as
very good degrees. so, in comparing the three degrees, you will
notice some very specific differences. This info was lifted directly
from the official websites. You will notice that these three degrees
have very different purposes. The Ed.D. is a degree to practice
education. The Ph.D. in education is for someone interested in
researching education. The Ph.D. in NRES is a degree for someone
interested in researching natural resources and environmental
sciences. these differences are fairly standard, and every
institution with which I am familiar except for Harvard and possibly
Texas A&M University-Commerce follow this pattern.
Ed.D. Education
64 hrs beyond the masters
24 hrs in area of specialization
4-16 hrs of dissertation research
must pass final defense
Dissertation:
The Ed.D. dissertation is intended to demonstrate the Ed.D.
candidate’s ability to relate academic knowledge to the problems of
professional practice. The dissertation should be characterized by the
kind of synthesis of experiences that is the hallmark of a highly
qualified professional. The demonstration of these qualities may take
a variety of forms such as: (a) a field study; (b) a scholarly,
original paper dealing with the interpretation and evaluation of the
work of a particular writer whose findings have a significant bearing
on any aspect of the educational enterprise where the significance has
not been clearly indicated by earlier studies; or, (c) an analytic
report demonstrating the student’s ability to carry a project through
from conceptualization to evaluation. (Graduate Faculty Action,
February 15, 1973). The dissertation usually requires a year or more
of study. Registration in dissertation research hours for on-campus
students, or by petition for credit in absentia, after the completion
of the required 64 hours beyond the master’s degree is optional. This
registration typically comes after the course work is completed and
before the time limits are reached. The College of Education does not
limit the number of dissertation research hours a student can take,
however, no more than 16 can be counted toward the Ed.D. credit
requirements and at least 4 hours is expected.
Ph.D. Education
64 hrs beyond Masters
32 hrs of coursework in the major
4-32 hrs of dissertation credit
must pass final defense
The Ph.D. dissertation is intended to demonstrate the student’s
capacity for independent research. In it, the student should make an
original contribution to knowledge. (Graduate Faculty Action, February
15, 1973). The dissertation usually requires a year or more of study.
Registration in dissertation research hours for on-campus students, or
by petition, in absentia after the completion of the required 64 hours
beyond the master’s degree is optional. This registration typically
comes after the course work is completed and before the time limits
are reached. The College of Education does not limit the number of
dissertation research hours a student can take, however, no more than
32 hours can be counted toward the Ph.D. and at least 4 hours is
expected.
Ph.D. in natural resources and environmental sciences
64 hrs beyond the masters
32 hrs or more of courses
32 hrs or more of dissertation research
must pass preliminary examination prior to candidacy for Ph.D.
Must pass final defense.
This is all they had on the Ph.D. in NRES. However, this degree
frequently requires in excess of three-four years spent doing
research, and virtually all graduates take more than four years to
complete the degree. Ed. D.'s can take as little as a few years of
fulltime study to complete.
The point is, the issue that an Ed.D. is not qualified to teach as a
biology professor has nothing to do with insult or perception. The
degree simply is not intended, in most cases, even to be a teaching
degree but rather a professional degree for those seeking principal
and superintendant jobs. The Ph.D. in education is a degree for those
interested in studying the field of education (and teaching about it),
and the Ph.D. in and science is a degree for those interested in
studying that science, and teaching about it. The degrees have very
little to do with each other, focus on completely different career
goals, and overlap little.
It is no different to say an Ed. D. is not qualified to be a biology
professor than it is to say a Ph.D. is not qualified to drill teeth.
A typical Ph.D. is not a dentist, a typical Ed.D. is not a research
biologist, and a typical Ph.D. in education generally is not seeking a
post as a principal.
Maybe this will clear this mess up that is obviously getting a little
twisted and causing grief!
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 9:38 PM, David M. Lawrence <[email protected]> wrote:
It's nice to see the enlightened opinion here -- i.e., tripe -- but until
someone comes up with a substantive difference between the two types of
degrees, all I can conclude is that the critics of Ph.D.s are bigoted jerks
better suited to wearing white sheets and burning crosses than scientists
who dispassionately pursue the evidence no matter where it leads.
Put up, or shut up. Comments like Tupper's and Tyson's, given that they are
in print, amount to libel of anyone with an Ed.D.
If you're going to criticize it in such terms, you better have evidence to
back your statement up. So, what is it?
Dave
Tupper, Mark (WorldFish) wrote:
I'd beg to differ with that. If you want "opportunities" and "placement"
in aquatic biology and fisheries (i.e. a real job after university), get
a Ph.D.
Get an Ed.D. if you want to be a bartender or make money in real estate.
Mark Tupper
-----Original Message-----
From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Wayne Tyson
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] EdD vs PhD
EdD is a BS degree in makeup, and is for those who want "opportunities"
and "placement." PhD is for the passionate.
WT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Beugly" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:18 AM
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] EdD vs PhD
My name is Jayson Beugly. I am currently pursuing an EdD in science
(aquatic
biology and fisheries)and an opportunity to switch to a PhD has come
up. I
am searching for advice on the pros and cons of the PhD vs EdD. There
seems
to be a bit of confusion regarding place and opportunities available
for
recipients of these respective degrees.
Thank You
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David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786
7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787
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"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
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4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan
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David M. Lawrence | Home: (804) 559-9786
7471 Brook Way Court | Fax: (804) 559-9787
Mechanicsville, VA 23111 | Email: [email protected]
USA | http: http://fuzzo.com
------------------------------------------------------
"We have met the enemy and he is us." -- Pogo
"No trespassing
4/17 of a haiku" -- Richard Brautigan
