I have waited to say anything to this, because it was too interesting to see where the conversation went, but now the below has struck me. He said, "religion probably didn't come about because any gods revealed their existence to our ancestors." I suppose that depends on how you define gods, and whether you are speaking objectively or subjectively. We need only look around us to see that the majority of human beings percieve the world subjectively. How often has a harmless encounter with some wild animal been transformed in the retelling into a "close call"? The "victim" was afraid for hisher life; therefore the animal must have been trying to kill himher. How many wars have been fought because each side sees the other as invading lands which are rightfully theirs? (The Mexican-American war comes to mind) So if a human being experiences something like the "naturalist's trance," or some similar type of "eureka" experience, then, subjectively speaking, it is an epiphany, i.e., a revelation of a god. The question then becomes, how likely are other human beings to experience the same? If the members of an isolated culture, in a prticular environment, all have a similar collection of experiences, it sees likely to me that their "eureka" moments will have much in common. At least enough to form a fairly coherent vision of what god is. At this point is when the issue becomes one of how we define a god. If we go with the modern, sophisticated theologians' view, of God as some personal Being, then none of the above necessarily has anything to do with God. But most people through human history have not been sophisticated theologians. But if I may be so bold as to suggest that god may be thought of scientifically as the underlying order in the universe -- the order which we glimpse piecemeal in scientific laws -- then to the extent that subjective experiences or "epiphanies" awaken the human awareness to the laws of the universe, religion may to that extent be considred to originate with "gods" revealing themselves to our ancestors. None of this requires that we see such "gods" as personal beings; but of course, subjectively, non-scientific humans have tended to do so. Jason Hernandez M.S., East Carolina University
--- On Thu, 5/20/10, ECOLOG-L automatic digest system <lists...@listserv.umd.edu> wrote: I, too, appreciate Jane's contribution to this conversation. We can only speculate on the origins of religion, since religion originated long before written language, or even cave art (if neanderthal and modern human religion have a common origin; though I will agree with William Silvert that religion probably didn't come about because any gods revealed their existence to our ancestors).
