Lots of learning in informal discussions. Lots of prompting of consideration of ideas.
That said, how does one demonstrate in such "bull sessions" that data were legitimately collected, following a defined protocol, to test a defined hypothesis, to answer a question that needed answering, and that the data were properly analyzed to properly test that hypothesis? Just sayin'............... . Bull sessions are essential to the progress of science. They don't substitute for formal presentation of reports on completed or partially completed well thought out projects. A big problem I have with modern meetings, however, is the expense that you decry. What happened to meeting on campus, using the down facilities such as unoccupied dormitories or at least campus owned housing and presentation rooms? Much less expensive for both the organization and the attendees. Of course, some meetings are too large for campuses that don't have large, dedicated meeting facilities, and those are often as expensive as hotel venues. David ---- Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote: > Ecolog: > > > > Methinks there might be even more elephants in the saloon--perhaps of many > hues. > > > > It has been my observation in the past that I have learnt more in the > hallways, WC's, and saloons than I have being driven nuts listening to > 20-minute "presentations" (attention ethologists!), in darkened halls > enduring the maddening, warp-speeding of laser traces across extensive, > unreadable tables and under-wowed by power-pointless pontifications and > dull-drumming, self-indulgent preening reading of newly-minted > number-crunchers, ad nauseam. > > > > "Yea, tho there be the occasional exception, I have long dreamt of > unorganized groupings, pre-read pre-publication papers cussed and discussed > with the authors in a more playfully serious atmosphere than the arbitrary, > jammed, expensive "meetings" at resort destinations. I even participated in > one experiment in unorganizing such a gathering; it was soon organized into > a "real" organization, however. The only such unorganization I ever knew to > last was "The Friends of the Pleistocene," which still exists, I believe, in > some form. Not a bad model, though, even though it would never pass PC > muster these days . . . too much wild behavior back in the sixties and > seventies. > > > > The trouble with unorganizations is that they don't pad résumés or bring in > money for institutions, not to mention "status." With or without booze, they > seem to me to work better than organized meetings. > > > > WT > > > > PS: Seriously, folks, whatever it takes to puncture caution, lower guards, > and stir up passions. I may yet collect the beer Silvert promised me a long > time ago, but I'd rather he came to San Diego . . . I love Europe, but have > come to hate airlines so much . . . > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Inouye" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 5:09 AM > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] alcohol consumption and citation counts > > > http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2010/09/make_mine_a_double.html > > Make mine a double - September 15, 2010 > > There have been > <http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100813/full/news.2010.406.html>some > radical suggestions to increase citation counts > of late but heavy drinking would probably rank at > the bottom of most researchers' lists. > > Yet a new study has found that the world's most > highly cited ecologists and environmental > scientists typically consume more than double the > amount imbibed by the general population. > > <http://www.springerlink.com/content/j5205442788316v6/>Published > in the October issue of > <http://www.springerlink.com/content/j5205442788316v6/>Scientometrics, > John Parker, a post-doctoral sociologist at the > National Center for Ecological Analysis and > Synthesis at the University of California, Santa > Barbara, and colleagues report the results of a > survey of the drinking habits of 124 of the most > highly cited researchers in ecology and > environmental science: the vast majority men aged > between 50 and 70 based in either North America or Western Europe. > > The results reveal that consumption for this > group averages around 7 alcoholic beverages per > week, about 2.5 drinks over the weekly > consumption of the average American. Though a > fifth of the group does not drink, more than half > consume 10 or more alcoholic beverages a week, > 20% consume 12 or more and 10% consumer 21 or > more. The largest consumer downed 31 per week. > > The researchers are quick to point out the > obvious - correlation does not equal causation. > "We are definitely not saying 'drink more to do > better'," Parker stresses. But he does believe > that more and better information is needed to > unravel the observed relationship and the > "non-scientific activities that affect scientific productivity". > > The results support the positive association > between national per capita beer consumption and > a country's citations per paper reported > <http://www.springerlink.com/content/lp34234k59473xkt/>in > a 2009 paper by Canadian ecologist Christopher > Lortie, who collaborated with Parker on the current paper. > > But they stand in contrast to a > <http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.0030-1299.2008.16551.x/abstract>2008 > survey of Czech ecologists by Thomas Grim, also > an ecologist. Grim, based at Palacky University > in the Czech Republic, found the opposite: that > increased levels of beer consumption were > associated with lower numbers of citations. > > "Because of well documented negative and causal > effects of ethanol, independently of dose, on > both mental performance and health, I find it > unlikely that the Parker et al. finding reflects > more than a spurious relationship," Grim told Nature News. > > Eminent Oxford ecologist Bob May - a lifelong > teetotaller - also said he did not recognise > Parker's picture. "My experience is that my > ecologist friends are not at all heavy drinkers." > > Michael Hochberg from the University of > Montpellier in France speculated on why - if this > were so - highly cited researchers might be > pushed to drink more. They might attend more > functions, be more "stressed out", or they may > just be "past their heyday and drowning their sorrows", he suggested. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3141 - Release Date: 09/17/10 > 12:24:00 -- David McNeely
