Apologies if I've missed it in my casual reading of the thread, but I feel that something else important is not entering the discussion that should. Credit for college courses earned in high school usually comes at a huge savings for the student; I earned 14 semester hours of credit at a rate of $9/credit when I was in high school. I'm sure the members of the list could talk themselves blue in the face about the academic merits, or lack thereof, associated with the courses that I received credit for. The $126 I spent represented over $1000 savings for me relative to community college tuition, and one should multiply that by a factor of 3-10 when considering the savings at a university. Finances led me to take a non-traditional (read cheap) path to engage in academia and that savings allowed me more latitude to explore my interests as I moved towards earning my degrees.
I think the last thing that should be considered when getting credit and earning a degree is saving a buck, but I can attest to the fact that for some of us it's all that it can be about. I'm not certain how many students you may be missing out on if you tell them they cannot earn credit for advanced coursework that they have already done, but the number will be greater than 0. Coming from a non-traditional path I have occasionally faced questions about the rigor and depth of my education; typically those questions come from those who are too foolish to realize that grades, credits, and standardized test scores mean next to nothing when it really comes down to it. My diligence and abilities have landed me an opportunity at an institution that is well regarded and affords me all the opportunities I could ever need to construct the career and life that I desire, but the educational experience in the classroom where I am at now is well below the standard of that which I experienced at a poor to average performing public school while earning my 14 credits on the cheap. I may have thrived at a traditional university and avoided many of the detours that I took along the way were there fewer roadblocks and headaches such as if you take this AP course you won't be able to credits at university X, Y, or Z. I think I am much better for the path that I ended up taking, but it wouldn't have hurt to had those roadblocks removed to help open up other options. I realize I may be the exception to the rule, but I am not alone. There are gaps in my education associated with the winding path I took in order to allow myself to save money and still work the hours I need to in order to pay my bills; more importantly I have experiences to fall back on that most of my current colleagues do not. I feel that alternative means of earning credits such as AP courses are different, not better, not worse, than what any university can offer. I'm offering nothing more than an anecdote to suggest that you should consider the message that is sent when a university refuses to accept AP credits. I took it as pretentious and self-serving that a university could not consider the possibility that an equivalent and or worthwhile educational experience for introductory courses could not be achieved elsewhere. I chose schools where my previous work was honored, not ignored; and where it was understood that I was not an opportunity to collect additional tuition for repetitive coursework, but an opportunity to bring in a student who had done some work to set himself up to succeed in more advanced courses. -Jason Persichetti -----Original Message----- From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jane Shevtsov Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 12:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Summary of Ecology in AP responses "Just send them to college" can only be done in cities that have colleges. Also, AP classes are slower-paced than college courses and taught in a more interactive manner. (AP Environmental Science, for example, is a year-long course but replaces a one-semester course.) I didn't take AP Bio but attended a biology magnet school that offered lots of science courses. 90% of my first-year biology at UCLA was review. If students who test out of intro courses are struggling, maybe it's because they missed a chance to learn to take college science courses, not because they missed content. Jane Shevtsov On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Joey Smokey <[email protected]>wrote: > Hi all, > > As a biology major recently graduated, as well as a science and math > tutor, I have also seen the trouble of AP credits in science programs. > Many of my peers who "think" they are ready for college-level science > from AP classes seem to struggle the most. I also tend to be > old-fashioned in thinking that AP coursework tends to be weak and any > credit should be given to electives or non-major classes. > > Like somebody mentioned earlier, if students are ready for college, > just send them to college. I think Head Start and Running Start > programs are far more successful than AP and honors programs in high school. > > Joey Smokey > WSU Vancouver > > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:17 PM, Corbin, Jeffrey D. > <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Hello Ecologgers - Thank you for your quick and numerous responses > > to my query about the treatment of ecology in AP classes. I received > > a wide > range > > of responses and suggestions. Some summaries: > > > > Regarding the coverage of ecology in high school AP classes: > > > > - Based on the College Board's published coverage of biology > > material, ecology is 10% of the test. This is comparable to the > percentage > > for cells, evolutionary biology, and heredity. ("Structure and > > function > of > > [organisms]" gets a much larger 32%, but that also encompasses many > topics) > > > > - The logical point was made that if a student received a 4 or > 5, > > then the student must have retained enough of the ecology material. > > > > - Several current or former H.S. teachers emailed me to say > that > > ecology is well-covered. > > > > - However, I also received far more comments from individuals > who > > said that their own AP class barely, if at all, covered ecology. > Anecdotal > > evidence yes, but it was a common comment > > > > Regarding the awarding of credit in college: > > > > - I agree with the comments of many that to award credit to > > biology majors for a high school class is to place a lot of faith in > > high school instruction without any oversight. > > > > - Many institutions offer no credit; many others offer non-major > > credit for a 4 or 5 on the AP. > > > > If nothing else, this informal survey did forestall a hasty decision > > on our part, and I think we are going to do a more complete survey > > of what > is > > common for Colleges and Departments like ours. > > > > Thanks again for all of the generous responses. > > > > -Jeff > > > > *************************** > > Jeffrey D. Corbin > > Department of Biological Sciences > > Union College > > Schenectady, NY 12308 > > (518) 388-6097 > > *************************** > > > -- ------------- Jane Shevtsov Ecology Ph.D. candidate, University of Georgia co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org "She has future plans and dreams at night. They tell her life is hard; she says 'That's all right'." --Faith Hill, "Wild One"
