From: Jason Hernandez <[email protected]>
To: "Ecological


From: Jason Hernandez <[email protected]>
To: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 
<[email protected]> 
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: Invasive Truffles

Alas, it seems we cannot seriously discuss any issue here without getting into 
arguments about definitions, i.e., whether any two of us ever use the same word 
to mean exactly the same thing.  But underneath this subtext of definitions is, 
in this case, a legitimate question.  As Jane points out, "exotic" and 
"invasive" are two different concepts -- the one referring to that which 
arrived by human agency instead of by non-human dispersal vectors (which raises 
an intersting sideline about cattle egrets in the Americas, and whether we 
should call them "native" or "exotic"); the other referring to that which has 
proliferated to such an extent that it has had an adverse effect on ecosystems 
and/or economies.
 
My question to add to this mix is: how do we tell when an exotic species has 
crossed the line into invasiveness?  There are of course relatively clear-cut 
cases, as for example Scots broom (Cytisus scoparius) invading Puget prairie 
ecosystems and reducing or eliminating the native forbs by increasing shade and 
soil nitrogen.  But what about, say, dandelions?  Other than the cost of 
herbicides people spend to get it out of their lawns, has the dandelion's 
presence caused demonstrable harm?  How do we judge any given case of an exotic 
species to tell whether or not it should be considered invasive?


________________________________
From: ECOLOG-L automatic digest system <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 12:00 AM
Subject: ECOLOG-L Digest - 26 May 2012 to 27 May 2012 (#2012-149)

Date:    Sat, 26 May 2012 22:32:27 -0700
From:    Jane Shevtsov <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: invasive truffles

I've been trying to avoid having a linguistic and philosophical debate
on ECOLOG, having no formal background in either subject, but it looks
like the debate is inevitable. Very well.

Matt writes, "We say species are invading because we mean to be
pejorative, not merely descriptive". That's partly true -- "exotic" is
the more neutral term -- but to call the usage pejorative isn't quite
right, either. "Invasive" refers to either an exotic that's spread
rapidly and/or widely, or an exotic that causes effects we don't like
(i.e. harm). Despite the casualness of my initial email -- and I
certainly hope ECOLOG is an appropriate forum for casual usage! -- I
used that word quite deliberately as I think it's appropriate in this
situation.

My rejection of the claim that the word "invasive" is anthropomorphic
has nothing to do with what a person may be described as doing. I used
the example of describing a person as "successful" to reject the claim
that calling a species "invasive" ascribes an intrinsic characteristic
to it. On the other hand, Matt rejects my "invasive cancer" example as
being relevant to the issue of whether the word "invasive" may be used
without anthropomorphism. Why? Species aren't cancers, but the
question is one of anthropomorphism, not non-neutrality. Blaming a
snake or fungus for something would be silly, but ascribing causality
is not the same thing as assigning blame. If we say, "HIV causes
AIDS", "a tsunami caused the meltdown at Fukushima", or "solar flares
cause communication satellites to malfunction", are we blaming the HIV
virus, tsunami or solar flares? If not, why the emphasis on fungi not
being moral actors?

As for "appropriating" your point about causality, Matt, it's called
agreeing with you! "X causes Y" ALWAYS implies a particular
background; in this case, a background of human knowledge and
practices relating to truffles. To take the classic example, striking
a match doesn't cause a fire if oxygen is absent, but this doesn't
mean we can't say that striking a match caused a particular fire.
Similarly, Tuber indicum causes certain problems in France. (And yes,
this was my original meaning.)

Finally, Matt writes, "The presence of two superficially similar (to
casual inspection) fungi in the same place doesn't cause concrete
harm.  It may violate someone's sense of place or require them to
learn to differentiate between the two". And why do they have to learn
to differentiate between the two, assuming this to be possible without
microscopic or molecular analysis? To avoid economic harm! Just
because you can compensate for a change doesn't mean it wasn't
harmful. Otherwise, you could say that someone who lost a leg in an
accident and got a good prosthesis wasn't harmed.

Matt, you and I agree that the exotic species issue is overblown and
often badly handled. (Yes, everyone has their favorite horror stories,
but most exotics AREN'T harmful.) But I don't think it's helpful to
completely deny that the issue exists.

Jane Shevtsov

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Matt Chew <[email protected]> wrote:
> The dust has settled a bit, so it's time to respond.
>
> Jane Shevtsov raised some interesting points in her rebuttal of my analys=
is
> of her post. =A0Most of them further exemplify the conceptual confusion a=
nd
> questionable communication practices I was highlighting.
>
> First, she reminded us: "I was speaking casually" Of course she was, and
> obviously so. =A0Why, having admitted to speaking casually, try to defend=
it
> as if that casualness had formal underpinnings? =A0It any case it is a po=
or
> justification. Does 'casually' mean carelessly, vaguely, imprecisely or
> misleadingly? Is this an appropriate forum for casual remarks? For that
> matter, should any conversation between ecologists about the objects we
> study be shorthanded either ambiguously or misleadingly?
>
> Jane's based her rejection of anthropomorphism primarily on what a person
> may do or be described as doing. =A0That underlines my point. =A0Truffles
> aren't persons. =A0Appealing to the fact that "doctors may speak of invas=
ive
> cancers" doesn't have anything to do with whether truffles can invade or
> species are invasive. =A0(Species aren't cancers, although that broad
> metaphor of reflexive fear and loathing has been applied to them as well.=
)
>
> Appealing to "what we often say" hardly implies that what we often say ha=
s
> been well said. Ecology's 'house' of casually applied metaphors (see
> Science 301:52-53) accumulated like a woodrat midden. =A0It's stable the =
way
> any heap of miscellaneous material can be stable, but it isn't much of a
> structure.
>
> Volition is important because invading is purposeful. =A0Invading isn't a
> synonym for diffusing or dispersing or being moved along a gradient or by
> an applied force. We say species are invading because we mean to be
> pejorative, not merely descriptive. It's a revealing category error.
>
> Any research project that has ever set out to compare 'natives' to
> 'invasives' (there are MANY such) carries a "casual" tacit presumption th=
at
> those twp categories are ecologically meaningful. =A0They aren't (see Che=
w
> and Hamilton's =A0'The Rise and Fall of Historical Nativeness=85). =A0Tha=
t's why
> the results of those studies are broadly inconsistent. =A0So yes, Jane,
> research has been significantly undermined. It's not a problem of compari=
ng
> apples and oranges. =A0It's a problem of comparing mermaids and hippogrif=
fs.
>
> In her rebuttal Jane appropriated my point about causality and suggested =
it
> was her own. =A0Hardly so. =A0She (originally, casually) claimed truffles=
were
> causing a problem.
>
> Finally, Jane wrote "One of the reasons I highlighted this article is tha=
t
> it describes
> concrete harms arising from an exotic species=85" =A0But it doesn't do th=
at.
> The presence of two superficially similar (to casual inspection) fungi in
> the same place doesn't cause concrete harm. =A0It may violate someone's s=
ense
> of place or require them to learn to differentiate between the two. Chang=
e
> is not harm. Demanding the world to conform to prior expectations or
> beliefs (especially while expecting to be able to manipulate it to one's
> own advantage) seems naive.
>
> David McNeely doesn't like brown tree snakes or Phytophthora ramorum. =A0=
He
> casually failed to contextualize either. =A0Charitably assuming that he m=
eant
> brown tree snakes on Guam, and further assuming that by social damage he
> meant the climbing instincts of brown tree snakes are incompatible with t=
he
> way people have traditionally strung electrical wiring, we still can't sa=
y
> the snakes caused a problem. =A0David apparently assumes that humans shou=
ld
> be free to do things the way they always have even when newly prevailing
> conditions render those habits ineffectual. =A0Eradicating brown tree sna=
kes
> on Guam may or may not be possible. =A0Changing the way electricity is
> distributed is an engineering exercise. =A0Doing the same thing over and =
over
> while expecting different results indicates the usual results are actuall=
y
> more acceptable than the costs of adapting.
>
> David's "ecological damage" to Guam was caused by humans acting on naive
> and tacit expectations that a remote island could be industrially
> militarized=97with all the coming and going that entails=97without
> fundamentally and practically altering its connectivity to other
> ecosystems. =A0Guam has been only hours away from many islands and severa=
l
> continents since the 1940s. =A0Focusing on brown tree snakes and blaming =
them
> for happening to have survived inadvertent transport there seems
> intentionally myopic. =A0Calling them invaders when they are evidently
> established and occupying virtually all usable habitat on the island is
> another category error.
>
> The advent of P. ramorum in North America produces effects more troubling
> to more people than than power outages or ecosystem restructuring on Guam=
.
> But P. ramorum is doing what it always has, necessarily without reference
> to continents or forests or even trees, for that matter. =A0Fungi aren't
> moral actors and they aren't morally accountable. =A0If a P. ramorum spor=
e
> arrives in suitable habitat (on, but without awareness of a tree) it grow=
s
> and reproduces. =A0But that isn't invading, or it shouldn't be=97to an
> ecologist. =A0This may be one of the most important points in this
> discussion. =A0It doesn't take an ecologist to anthropomorphize the adven=
t of
> a taxon we don't like by labeling it an invasion. =A0Anybody capable of
> noting and disliking the arrival=97for any reason, or no articulable reas=
on=97
> can do that. It doesn't explain or even describe the event in other than
> personal, subjective terms. =A0 Ecologists need to do better, and
> differently, than everyman, or else 'ecologist' becomes a category error,
> too.
>
> Matthew K Chew
> Assistant Research Professor
> Arizona State University School of Life Sciences
>
> ASU Center for Biology & Society
> PO Box 873301
> Tempe, AZ 85287-3301 USA
> Tel 480.965.8422
> Fax 480.965.8330
> [email protected] or [email protected]
> http://cbs.asu.edu/people/profiles/chew.php
> http://asu.academia.edu/MattChew



--=20
-------------
Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
Mathematical Biology Curriculum Writer, UCLA
co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org

"In the long run, education intended to produce a molecular
geneticist, a systems ecologist, or an immunologist is inferior, both
for the individual and for society, than that intended to produce a
broadly educated person who has also written a dissertation." --John
Janovy, Jr., "On Becoming a Biologist"

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