Greg wrote:
>I don't lump everything into simply "fossil fuels". While no fossil
>fuels are sustainable of course, lumping coal (no pun intended!) and oil
>together is bogus, IMO. There's a huge difference of where this country,
>and planet, stands with oil and coal, in terms of supply, regional
>availability, affect on air quality, etc.
Greg, i assume this is a criticism but i have no idea what
is intended. Both coal and oil are fossil fuels and i
was referring to both of them.
>In addition lets not forget that solar cells don't grow on trees, we all
>know. I see several have already followed up on the sticky issue of
>embodied energy to required to manufacture solar technology.
Sure, solar cells have environmental costs and we have to take that
into consideration. All the serious studies i've seen indicate current
technology has fewer environmental problems than fossil fuels. Also,
we have not invested much effort into making this technology
less polluting. If you think this generality is in error then
i would be interested in the contrary data.
>How about those who choose not to even bother with solar until we can
>first collectively and individually get off our addiction to oil.
I can visualize a solar industry helping our energy picture
and shifting us away from oil. The idea that we should
ignore all solutions and only consider oil conservation
doesn't fit the world i see. Can we control everyone and
force one solution?
>Who is "not considering conservation" ?!?!?!?!
Manufactures usually do not put conservation on the top
of their priority list. If it was we would not have
these sport vehicles getting 3 miles per gallon and refrigerators
which eat energy and have a hot motor under the cold box. In
most cases manufactures look at profit and buyers look at
initial cost.
>FWIW, the thread you are referencing (from the homestead list) continued
>to discuss energy efficient appliances, and creative ways they can be
>financed, but cost again is a major roadblock.
The homestead list had one thread but it has also been discussed
in many other places. It appears on AE lists, and on the homepower
and pv newsgroups... And yes, most people view short term costs as the
major roadblock.
>Merely "switching" to
>efficient appliances, is not that easy or economically feasible for all
>but a very few of society. I disagree that forking over $2800 for a
>super efficient refrigerator is anything but "even simpler", as you
>suggest.
If manufactures produced efficient refrigerators in volume they
would not cost $2800 and that was one of my points. Another was
that we probably don't need the $2800 model. I've had a Sunfrost
refrigerator for years and selected a smaller more efficient
one. It was not anywhere close to $2800 and has probably paid
for itself in energy savings. Lets see... from my AE catalog
the top of the line Sunfrost is 2960 the smaller units are
around 2000. A European Conserv refrigerator is around $1000.
So... buy the Conserv.
>Yep, the issue is more complicated than cost Jeff, and thus I was urged
>to respond to what I felt was your incomplete, and often times
>condescending summary of the discussion. I'm sorry if my rebuttal comes
>off too strong, but I will say you hit a nerve!
It would be better to talk about the issue and not get personal.
If you felt something was condescending then point it out so i
can improve my communication skills. I'm not that good at writing
but i do live all this stuff and speak from experience.
>While I often enjoy reading your thoughts and posts here and on the
>homestead list, I respectfully suggest you aren't doing justice to this
>discussion by ignoring several key aspects of the original thread,
What key aspects and which thread?
>assuming that people (like me and many others) who do not choose
>to pursue solar electric are somehow ignorant of the ecological problems
>and costs of fossil fuel use.
Well, you could take my post personally or see it as addressed to
a generalized cultural model. I was seeing our culture when i
wrote it.... and yes i do rant too much.
----
jeff owens, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.xprt.net/~jko
underground house, solar power, self-reliance, edible landscape
to leave ecopath: unsubscribe ecopath -> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
