Richard,
Boy can I relate to that situation.  Luckily we are moving to SAP in
stages so I deal with a different segment of the organization every 6
months or so going live. The generation rollouts have been on-going
since October of 2004.  We are on generation 5 right now with a few more
to go.  This August about 86% of our trading partners switch from our
Trusted Link EDI400 system to being fully transacted in wm (around 2000
customers for 6 transaction sets).  We normalized the mapping versions
as much as possible consolidating customers on common mapping services
in wm.  The analysis was the largest effort and testing is huge too.

They keep wanting to shut down the AS400 but it is still supporting our
manufacturing and HR applications so it will be around for a couple of
more years.

Good luck with your planning!  Let me know if I can be of assistance.
Thanks,
Dawn

________________________________

From: Hurd, Richard [SLCUS] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 8:29 AM
To: Field, Dawn; EDL LIST
Subject: RE: [EDI-L] EDI in SAP-land


We have too many maps and TPs to get the whole project done in wM in the
timeframe given.  I cannot convert (conservatively) 300-400 maps and
hundreds of trading partners into a webMethods environment.  I need to
leave the translation piece alone in order to minimize the risk to the
business. 

I have just been invited to a "Gentran Mainframe Sunset" planning
meeting, so apparently I will also be part of the retirement of
Gentran:Basic off of the mainframe. The SAP go-live, however, will
predate this by a year or so, and I think we've all but decided that
we'll most likely code a webMethods integration for each application
flat file on one end, and an appropriate IDoc or RFC on the other.

This fits in well with our current webMethods deployments, and makes the
most sense from a maintainability point of view for us.

Later, when we decide which translator we deploy, we'll be in a better
position to determine the final architecture.  Whether that will be wM
or something else still remains to be seen - I'm not the only person at
this sunset meeting.  :)





        -----Original Message-----
        From: Field, Dawn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
        Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 7:03 AM
        To: Hurd, Richard [SLCUS]; EDL LIST
        Subject: RE: [EDI-L] EDI in SAP-land


        Richard,
        Why don't you just do it all in wm?  wm handles IDOC structures
very well.  We are using wm for our external communications,
translation, and delivery to/from multiple backend systems (several JDE
systems and 2 SAP).  I designed our inbound sales order integration to
handle just about any source and they all feed through a single
integration designed to create the IDOC from our Order canonical
document.  The multiple sources consist of online stores, palm devices,
EDI sales orders, and xml sales orders.  The source just needs to be
mapped to our Order canonical and meet the basic requirements for a
Medtronic sales order.  Once the order canonical is published to the
broker the subscriber filters out the SAP bound documents based on a
backend system parameter in the control record of the canonical and
formats the canonical into the ORDERS05 IDOC and delivers it to SAP.
Basically the canonical shields our backend system from the external
format as well as the reverse.  Let me know if you would like to hear
more.
        Thanks,
        Dawn

________________________________

        From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard McGinnis
        Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:10 AM
        To: Hurd, Richard [SLCUS]; Leah Halpin; EDL LIST; Shawn Aker
        Subject: RE: [EDI-L] EDI in SAP-land



        Have you considered having Gentran translate the flat file
format to IDOC format for you? It would require that you put together
flat file to IDOC maps in Gentran, but still better alterantive than
having to change all the maps in Gentran.

        --
        Richard McGinnis
        [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:rmcginnis2019%40charter.net>
        209.874.2021

        ---- "Hurd wrote:
        > I'm not looking to get rid of Gentran, I just want Something
to take the flat file output from Gentran and convert it to an IDoc.
        >
        > If I considered XI, it would only be to convert these files
back and forth. TP management, FAs, mapping would all stay in Gentran.
        >
        > This way I only have to manage 46 application files rather
than convert several hundred maps.
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Leah Halpin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:leahhalpin%40yahoo.com> ]
        > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 9:54 AM
        > To: Shawn Aker; EDL LIST
        > Cc: Hurd, Richard [SLCUS]
        > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] EDI in SAP-land
        >
        >
        > I have to second Shawn's advice. XI is going to be much more
painful and take a lot longer. The header record will have to be
hardcoded in each map for XI, too, so you don't save anything there and
the trading partner management and comms are an interesting combination
of complex and lean. Oh, and you'll have to write your own outbound FA
process from scratch, there's no syntax check built in.
        >
        > Leah
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Shawn Aker <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:smaker%40gmail.com>
>
        > To: EDL LIST <[email protected]
<mailto:EDI-L%40yahoogroups.com> >
        > Cc: "Hurd, Richard [SLCUS]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:rhurd3%40cscus.jnj.com> >
        > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:55:51 PM
        > Subject: Re: [EDI-L] EDI in SAP-land
        >
        >
        >
        > I feel your pain with the complication of your processes. But
seeing as how
        > I've work with all three products (XI,Webmethods, and Gentran
Unix) Um.. the
        > easiest is going to be Gentran by far to put your EDI in -
promise -
        > particularly if you have volume.
        >
        > I know you don't want to hear about new products - but I've
been working
        > with and really digging Axway's new Synchrony 4 line. Strong
communication,
        > translation, visibility that no other company right now offers
in
        > combination. Plus you are treated like a king - which no else
in this
        > business does either these days (particularly with the
products/vendors
        > above).
        >
        > That's 4 cents now.
        >
        > Shawn
        >
        > On 6/28/07, Hurd, Richard [SLCUS] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:rhurd3%40cscus.jnj.com> jnj.com> wrote:
        > >
        > > It's tempting to think about this but we have several
hundreds of maps
        > > that are in production. To map to a flatfile IDoc format,
I'd have to
        > > modify each of those maps and create a new application
destination.
        > >
        > > That sounds like a daunting task. However, if you've the
Gentran:Basic
        > > experience, maybe you have an insight that I'm missing on
how to handle
        > > this.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:smaker%40gmail.com>
[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:smaker%40gmail.com> ]*On Behalf Of
*Shawn
        > > Aker
        > > *Sent:* Thursday, June 28, 2007 5:30 PM
        > > *To:* EDL LIST
        > > *Cc:* Hurd, Richard [SLCUS]
        > > *Subject:* Re: [EDI-L] EDI in SAP-land
        > >
        > > Richard,
        > >
        > > Remember, XI only speaks XML effectively. The setup for a
"flat file" is
        > > horrendous in current versions and is something I would
avoid at all cost.
        > >
        > > Although Gentran basic won't "talk" directly with SAP by
updating status
        > > codes, using ALE, etc - you can map to a flatfile idoc
format and use
        > > startrfc to bring in your data instead of writing two maps.
Just hard code
        > > in what's called the DC record, setup the port, and you are
all set. We did
        > > this at Motorola and it works great. We just had a few shell
commands that
        > > sent emails for failures etc - pretty straight forward.
        > >
        > > Talk to me offline if you have questions.
        > >
        > > Shawn
        > >
        > >
        > > On 6/28/07, Hurd, Richard [SLCUS] < [EMAIL PROTECTED] jnj.com
<mailto:rhurd3%40cscus.jnj.com> > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I'm now moving away from the integration development team
-
        > > > middleware, etc. - back to EDI.
        > > >
        > > > Apparently there is a large gap that they want to fill in
our SAP
        > > > deployment architecture - they have somehow realized that
perhaps we need to
        > > > use EDI to communicate our customers' orders into SAP and
payments back to
        > > > us. No! You think?
        > > >
        > > > Anyway, my guess is that they figured that many years of
EDI experience
        > > > sort of trumped many months of webMethods development, so
here I am, staring
        > > > Arvind Nagpal's book in the face and asking "What the heck
have I gotten
        > > > into?"
        > > >
        > > > I'll probably be asking lots of dumb questions in the
future. However, I
        > > > just wanted people to know that I'm back with EDI as my
day job. And trust
        > > > me, I don't need any salespeople to call, since at this
juncture we're going
        > > > to be lucky to get EDI RUNNING with our current translator
(Gentran Basic
        > > > for Z/OS.)
        > > >
        > > > So if anyone's successfully done that -- short term, as
I'm sure they're
        > > > contemplating a translator somewhere in our future -- I'd
love to talk. And
        > > > hopefully here so that all of our mistakes can be avoided
by the next person
        > > > unlucky enough to be in this spot. :)
        > > >
        > > > The first thing I'll throw out there is that I know that
Gentran:Basic
        > > > doesn't speak IDoc, so we're faced with a gap analysis;
namely, our current
        > > > application flat file into IDoc structure. I'm figuring
that this is the
        > > > best way to proceed. As far as a middleware tool to handle
this, my choices
        > > > are two - either webMethods or SAP XI. Ultimately, my
translator will speak
        > > > IDoc and we'll lose the middleware component - fewer
moving parts, as far as
        > > > I'm concerned - so this work is more or less throwaway. I
know wM can do it,
        > > > and I hope to find out soon if XI is up to the task as
well.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Rich Hurd
        > > > EDI Lead-SAP Development
        > > > Johnson & Johnson Consumer Companies
        > > > North American Consumer IT
        > > > 908-874-1523
        > > >
        > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Shawn Aker
        > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:saker%40iaspx.com>
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > Regards,
        >
        > Shawn Aker
        > [EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:saker%40iaspx.com>
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47093/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47093/*http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222>
> with an Edge to see what's on, when.
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >



        
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