dennis roberts wrote:
> At 02:34 PM 12/21/99 -0600, EAKIN MARK E wrote:
> >Dennis Roberts writes:
>
> i said this ...
>
> >>
> >> third ... usually, "curving" means lowering the cutoffs ... that were
> >> established at the beginning of a course (maybe in the syllabus) .... if
> >> that is the case ... then there is NO statistical rationale for this ...
> >> simply, your "gut" feeling that not enough students are making As, Bs, etc
> >> ... SO, you move the cutoffs down until YOU feel comfortable ...
> >>
>
> and mark countered
>
> >In the case of my teaching philosoply, I will have to disagree with
> >the above. To me, a student's grade can be expressed as
>
> but, i counter counter with ...
>
> sorry ... grading is PRIMARILY a subjective activity ... there is no other
> way to put it. now, you can have test scores, project scores, other
> observations, speeches, homework, knowledge from previous classes, etc.
> ... you name it. but, in the final analysis ... you put all this stuff
> together ... and then you DECIDE where to put the cut points ... and, if
> anyone out there thinks the placing of cut points in typical classes in
> schools is objective ... then merry christmas to you and to all a good night!
>
> ==============================================================
> dennis roberts, penn state university
> educational psychology, 8148632401
> http://roberts.ed.psu.edu/users/droberts/droberts.htm
I agree with Dennis, and would like to chime in with some other points.
The late W. Edwards Deming stated that the use of a forced distribution for
grades is "ruinous" to the entire system of education. It seems to me that
grading "on the curve" is in some sense an attempt at using a forced
distribution. (And if the goal is indeed to enforce a distribution, then use the
ranked data, not the normal distribution; see below for more about ranking.)
Use of a forced distribution creates a win-lose scenario for the students. If we
are to improve as educators, we need to seek win-win scenarios. Deming himself
(if I remember correctly) graded everyone as "A" until the administration
noticed, and then they made his courses Pass-Fail.
Deming was also very much against ranking students in any way, except for the
possible exception of identifying an exceptional student that others might
emulate (the > 3*sigma student) and identifying the exceptionally poor student (<
3*sigma) for remediation. All other students should be be essentially
equivalent, in Deming's philosophy.
I would be curious to hear what others have to say about this. Is Deming still
with us? And how can we create win-win teaching strategies that will also
satisfy administrators?
Peter
