David, I am an outsider, so I can not say a lot other than what I already said in another mail: stop fighting and start working.
but I do want to raise a point here: I have been trying to help. I sent out a couple of messages indicating my will to help where ever I could be helpful. as an outsider, I don't know where to start. nobody contacted me, no one reacted. I would need somebody to take me by the hand to get me started. I applied for the list - nothing happened. So I contacted Mark Shuttleworth, he reacted, but then again nothing happened. Anyway. I for myself would like to look forward. I have many skills. Tell me what I can do, help me get started and you have two more hands. Regards, Uwe Geercken Zitat von David Van Assche <[email protected]>: > I tend to stay out of internal politics, prefering to actually contribute > through code, documentation, bug squashing or whatever other tasks a > volunteer can help with. But clearly the recent change of attitude by some > 'rogue' members warrants a response. Like others on the list, I don't see > the wiki clean up as the be all and end all of edubuntu tasks that need to > be addressed. There are literally hundreds of items that need to be > addressed, and just to list some of the more important ones: > > 1. Edubuntu Handbook to be updated, remove LTSP parts and link from external > upstream documentation. > 2. Update Website to incorporate news, especially the recent roadmap > explanation posted by Stephane. > 3. Update website to list applications on the Edubuntu DVD (basically follow > existing Intrepid and Jaunty application pages) > 4. Update any howtos that explain/teach basic tasks in edubuntu (Something > similar to http://www.linux-for-education.org/course/view.php?id=79) > 5. Along with the above mentioned howto task, the easiest way would be to > link to and help build linux-for-education.org which is supposed to be a > moodle course based landing page for anything educational in the linux > Arena. We could of course create our own Moodle Landing page and link to > that from the Edubuntu website, and I believe there are plans to do that, > but either way, Moodle courses are easily movable, so any work done now, > will not be lost. > 6. Analyze and review applications to be included in future Edubuntu > versions > 7. Squash existing bugs, test Karmic Edubuntu thoroughly, and post opinions, > reviews, etc to this list > 8. Work on artwork, including icon sets, menu layout, backgrounds > 9. Help to fix Edubuntu wiki > > I haven't mentioned any coding/packaging tasks there, though that clearly > should be up top. The point here is that though the wiki cleanup is > important, I wouldn't say it deserves priority #1 > > Anyway, people like Scott (-not- sbalneaves) would do well to involve > themselves in 'fixing' the problem, rather than spewing destructive > criticism at every possible turn of events. All I've ever seen from your > emails is reasons as to why the people who really are working on things (the > leadership you call them, though non would consider themselves that) are > doing it wrong. If that's the case, why don't YOU show us how its done? > > Not to belittle Ace's enthusiasm or involvment, there are many folks > involved with many tasks that are helping to make edubuntu better. They tend > not to need constant attention or repetitive broadcasting of their actions, > but perhaps that is what is needed, if otherwise the general vibe that > people come away with is that if they are silent, they must not be doing > anything. > > So... if its really required, perhaps we should list the folks working on > Edubuntu, and what it is they are working on, so there is some more > visibility, and there are less thoughtless emails like the the one I'm > responding to (perhaps due to being in the dark about what's really going on > under the edubuntu covers, so to speak.) > > kind regards, > David Van Assche > www.nubae.com > > On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 6:22 PM, R. Scott Belford <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Mark Shuttleworth, are you listening? The Edubuntu 'Leadership' has >> created the single greatest failure of an Education focused Open >> Source project I have seen in my more than 10 years of FOSS endeavors. >> Please end this project and the *ubuntu branding before you further >> damage our community as a whole. Otherwise, I consider this project >> to be on the state of becoming an adversary to the responsible >> advocacy and adoption of Free and Open Source Software. >> >> The fact that one of the most focused and deliberate volunteers I have >> seen come to the Edubuntu-users mailing list, Ace Suares, is now >> leaving is testimony to this failure. For years, since the released >> debacle of 7.10 that all but ruined existing LTSP 4.2 setups, the >> Edubuntu-users mailing list has become a place for your developers and >> 'leaders' to defend their actions, to denigrate 'users', and to >> completely hijack the good intent of the community. I have attempted >> to bring this to your executives' decisions at various conferences, I >> have discussed it with your Canadian support team, and I have made >> these comments on the edubuntu-users list. >> >> The general feedback from the active leaders and developers >> representing Canonical and Edubuntu is that we're doing the heavy >> lifting, that we are right, and that the user's commitment or >> expectation is at fault. It's tragic because of late you have had the >> likes of Scott Balneaves making yet another extraordinary promise to >> get Edubuntu to a usable state for the breadth of hardware you claim >> to support. As it stands Edubuntu is still unusable for the average >> teacher with less than an hour a week for learning and maintenance, >> and one of your "leaders" just ran off one of the people trying to fix >> the wiki that people turn to for help. >> >> I don't quit, and I've been committed to K12FOSS since 2000. I'll >> continue monitoring this, the debian-edu, and the K12OSN lists for >> trends, progress, and the evolution of an education community around >> FOSS. I also don't cheer lead for bullies, and we have bullying going >> on here. >> >> --scott >> >> On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Hi Ace >> > >> > (I'm cc'ing you since I don't know whether you're on the list anymore) >> > >> > Ace Suares wrote: >> >> See http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/10/02/%23ubuntu-meeting.html#t17:59 >> >> >> >> On the agenda was a proposal from LaserJock, which would resolve the >> >> deadlock around cleaning up the wiki. It was not addressed. The EC >> >> totally ignored the agenda. >> > >> > When I read your e-mail the first time I actually thought that I missed >> > it on the agenda. If you check >> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/WikiSite/Meeting/Agenda there's a >> > section called "Agenda next meeting" and "Agenda 2009-11-09". The wiki >> > item was actually under "Agenda 2009-11-09", which is only next month. >> > I'm not sure where that date comes from, or why we're splitting the >> > agenda, or who split it up like that. We usually put it on one date and >> > just remove the items that are discussed already, leaving unresolved >> > items for the next meeting. >> > >> > Additionally, I think it's very unfair to say that the issue was >> > ignored. We've already addressed the issues that blocked you from doing >> > any work when discussing it on the edubuntu-devel mailing list. We won't >> > be discussing every single wiki page before changing or moving it, no >> > one has the time for that. Instead, we would rather have you follow the >> > guidelines we have discussed and using your own judgement. >> > >> >> Well, nothing has happened. No comments on the wiki page. No talk about >> >> either Jordan or mine proposal in the first EC meeting in months. >> >> >> >> When I started this, I thought I would clean up the wiki in about three >> >> intensive weeks. >> > >> > Ace, that's part of the problem. You moved a great deal of wiki pages >> > without discussing it with anyone or getting more feedback on the issue. >> > When working in a team, you can't decide to do big things on your own, >> > even if you end up doing most of the work. There's a good reason why "Be >> > considerate" and "Be collaborative" are two of the major six points of >> > the Ubuntu Code of Conduct[1]. >> > >> >> Due to total inadequacy of the governing body of Edubuntu, this project >> >> is still in limbo. >> >> >> >> Actually, there is only ONE person stopping me every time I move >> >> forward. All the others either don't care or give some praise and >> >> encouragement. >> >> >> >> I'm done with this bunch. Some very common sociodynamics are at work. >> >> Pioneers Syndrome comes to mind. These sociodynamics do really crumble >> >> the structure of Edubuntu and stop (some) new people getting involved. >> > >> > I'm not familiar with the concept of "Pioneers Syndrome". I tried to >> > look it up but couldn't find any reference. I agree that we've had some >> > problems, but we've been very public and honest about it and we've >> > acknowledged that Edubuntu's problems won't be sorted out over night. >> > From where I stand, we've made some very good progress recently, a big >> > change from where we've been the last 2 years before that. I honestly >> > don't mind you (or anyone) providing constructive criticism, but I don't >> > believe that you are being very constructive with your current tone. >> > >> >> I am very sorry that this is all happening. I hope you can solve your >> >> internal deadlock one day and grow again as a community. I might join >> >> then, again. >> >> >> >> Thanks to all the people who sent positive thoughts the last couple of >> >> months. And sorry for leaving you with a half-done wiki. Not my choice. >> > >> > The choice is all yours, really. Firstly, you made a large amount of >> > changes to the wiki, and then you choose to leave it uncompleted, >> > leaving us with more work than there was before you started working on >> it. >> > >> > That's where the sixth major point in the Code of Conduct comes in, >> > "Step down considerably". From my perspective, saying mean things to >> > those who have only tried to help you (Jordan for one has gone out of >> > his way to try to accommodate you) and then wanting to leave things you >> > have started without any form of handover or discussion is not in the >> > spirit of the code. I note from your Launchpad page[2] that you have >> > signed the code of conduct so I assume that you should be familiar with >> it. >> > >> > The last thing I want to do is use the CoC to do any kind of policing, >> > and that's not what's happening here. I do want to note, however, that >> > being impatient and demanding is not the way to make progress in a team >> > and in a community. It would be sad to see you go, but if you're not >> > willing to work as part of a team, then unfortunately our hands are tied. >> > >> > -Jonathan >> > >> > [1] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct >> > [2] https://launchpad.net/~acesuares<https://launchpad.net/%7Eacesuares> >> > >> > -- >> > edubuntu-users mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users >> > >> >> -- >> edubuntu-users mailing list >> [email protected] >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users >> > > > > -- > > Ted Turner <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/ted_turner.html> - > "Sports is like a war without the killing." > -- edubuntu-users mailing list [email protected] Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-users
