Ana Bhattacharayya wrote:
> It seems to me that their usage of stateless session beans has given them
> a
> such performance --- I really doubt whether they would have got such
> scaleability if they needed to use stateful session beans/entity beans.
>
[Randy Stafford] Concur.
> Does
> it point to the fact that their requirements were pretty simple or they
> did
> some designs like maintaining sessions in the web server and not in the
> ejb
> server??
> I really dont get what value add I am getting from using EJBs if I dont go
> for entit beans or stateful session beans.
>
[Randy Stafford] Well, even if all you use is stateless session
beans, you get the value of a standardized programming model for
service-based architecture (distributed facades), plus declarative
transaction management, plus the deployment model, plus plus plus...
> AFAIK it is not a good design to
> make the clients session aware --- and thats precisely why stateful
> session
> beans came into being.
>
[Randy Stafford] What do you mean by "make the clients session
aware"? It may be a fact of life in your application that you have to store
conversational state on a per-user basis somewhere in the application. It
then becomes a design choice where to store it. Storing it in stateful
session beans may limit scalability, as you suspect. What is wrong with
storing it in HttpSession state?
> But then people say it is too slow and go back to
> 1> Either storing the session info in HttpSession in the servlets engine
> OR
> 2> Storing session info in a hastable like data structure in the ejb
> server
> side -- something like a dependent object to the ejbeans.
> ie back to square one!
>
> And also to me the benefit of using Entity beans comes only when I go for
> CMP aproach --- but then also performance issues come and people say CMP
> is
> not developed!!
> So the result is use stateless session beans --- and my question is why
> dont
> I use simple RMI or CORBA to design my objects???
>
[Randy Stafford] Because of the other things that EJB brings.
> Is there any example of a scalable, working real life implementation which
> use EJBs propely?? --- By properly I mean to say the implementation uses
> session beans (both stateless and stateful) to represent their business
> process and entity beans to represent business logic and business data.
> I need this to get back my confidence :)
>
[Randy Stafford] How about instead asking the question of whether
there is a scalable, working, real-life implementation which uses *all*
types of EJBs? What is "proper" use of EJB, anyway? I concur with you that
entity beans are of dubious value in many scenarios, and that both entity
beans and stateful session beans inhibit scalability. But, take the good
and leave the bad.
Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
Senior Architect
GemStone Professional Services
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Raber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 1:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Largest EJB Implementation ?
>
>
> I don't have tons of data, but here are a few data points:
>
> - NetScape WEB servers
> - Stateless Session Beans
> - Oracle database
> - 15 million hits per week
> - 140,000 users
> - 150,000 shipments per day
>
> Take this with a grain of salt, I am copying it from a mktg presentation
> on
> this account. It gives us an idea of the scale of the thing though. It's
> pretty darn big.
>
> They run on Sun hardware. Not sure what models, but I believe they are
> mid-range servers.
>
> -Chris.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jago, Robert [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:53 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Largest EJB Implementation ?
> >
> > Hello Chris.
> >
> > Do there exist actual numbers of performance, throughput, peak
> > load
> > numbers for this?
> > Not to mention infrastructure?
> >
> > Rob Jago
> > Programmer/Designer
> > Ottawa
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Chris Raber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: April 14, 2000 10:28 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: Largest EJB Implementation ?
> >
> >
> > <vendor>
> > Ingram Micro's auction site is built on EJB (GemStone).
> >
> > It does zillions of hits per time unit bla bla bla... And the hits do go
> > through beans!
> > </vendor>
> >
> > -Chris.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Eddie Fung [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 6:27 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Largest EJB Implementation ?
> > >
> > > Anyone know what the largest production EJB implementation is out
> there
> > > (subject to non disclosure agreements of course) ?
> > >
> > > 'Largest' in terms of a mix of :
> > > - transaction volume
> > > - complexity (EJB side, not servlet/client side) ie. 'depth of logic'
> > > - database volumes
> > >
> > > I'm not interested in apps that have a million hits/minute with very
> > > little EJB (or at least simple) activity. That's high TP but not
> 'deep'.
> > >
> > > When you read the literature and the J2EE Blueprint it is always very
> > > simplistic and I was interested in the current state of affairs - EJB
> > > still being 'bleeding' edge so to speak.
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > Eddie
> > >
> > >
> >
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