Well said Gerry, Fred AE On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 10:45 AM Gerry Hull <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have four years of experience using the RemoteRig boxes with both the > K3/0 Full-size box and the K3/0 Mini. > > One must remember that the RRC 1258 boxes are not purpose-built for > Elecraft, though the solution is elegant, and works flawlessly week after > week once it has > been configured properly. > > Comparing the Flex solution of the Elecraft + RemoteRig solution is > comparing Apples to Oranges. I would hold Flex to an even higher > standard: It's a one-company solution, designed way after the Elecraft + > RemoteRig stuff was on the market. > > Hopefully, the K4, or what is ever next from Elecraft, will have > a detachable front panel --- and the connection between the front panel and > radio chassis will be Ethernet! (One can dream). > > So Flex and Elecraft, I believe, pretty much own the Remote market, which > is growing rapidly. I'm sure Eric and team are not sitting on their hands > regarding remote. > > I just passed 25,000 QSOs from VY1AAA, remoting from 4500km away in New > Hampshire. The remote end is simple DSL. The technology rocks. > Packaging is the result of multiple vendors. > > 73, > > Gerry Hull, W1VE / VE1RM > Trustee, VY1AAA > Hancock, NH > > Gerry Hull, W1VE Hancock, NH USA > Member: ARRL, YCCC, YCCCN, CW Ops > [email protected] ph: 1-617-CW-SPARK (find me) > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 11:56 AM Barry Baines via Elecraft < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Fred: >> >> >> > On Feb 28, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Fred Massey <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > A K3/0 that could directly connect over the internet with a K3s (K3s+ or >> > K4) is really needed. The remoterig is relatively difficult and old >> tech. >> > The client server architecture like flex is using is what is needed. >> >> >> I use the existing K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig with my K3 and the Flex-6700 >> through Maestro remotely. Both approaches have their advantages and >> disadvantages and in essence we’re comparing apples to oranges. >> >> The K3 approach through Remote Rig is admittedly ‘kludgy’ given external >> boxes, cabling, and settings. However, once up and running it is very good >> and reliable. Most importantly, the system requires little bandwidth for >> radio control and audio. I can use the K3 remote system controlling a K3 >> station in rural southeast Georgia which has a DSL connection and max >> upload of 1.2 MBps. In most cases, it is 768 Mbps. In addition, it is a >> ’self-contained’ system where no one else has connectivity and the >> connection is directly between the remote and the K3. I am not dependent >> upon Elecraft to maintain a system for managing my connections. However, >> this approach also requires separate means to manage the KPA500 and KAT500. >> >> The Remote Rig RC-1216H provides a web interface for the KPA500 and I use >> a second RC-1216H to control the rotor (Green Heron RT-21 managing an Orion >> Rotor). Of course, there isn’t a panadapter remote option which would take >> uplink bandwidth. What I miss is the direct controllability of the KAT500 >> which requires the KAT500 utility to be controlled remotely. I’ve done >> this using a Serial-to-Ethernet converter, but I don’t llke it because it >> requires a PC to run it. I hope at some point that Remote Rig would >> upgrade the firmware to manage the KAT500 so that I can use any web-capable >> device (iPad, iPhone, Mac, PC, etc.). >> >> Overall, the system works very well and I’ve been using it since >> September 2014 without problems. I now keep a K3/0-Mini system at two >> different locations (Texas and New England) both of which cannot support a >> ham station on site. >> >> The Flex System overcomes some of the weaknesses of the K3 approach and >> of course it has a remote panadapter capabiity. But it has taken Flex over >> five years to provide the remote capability at significantly higher cost >> and requires greater upload bandwidth. SmartSDR 2.0 was introduced in 2017 >> which means for four years I could only operate the Flex-6700 when at the >> shack. Flex’s approach is dependent upon a server-based system to >> establish a secure link, a license fee if you’re upgrading from Version 1 >> to Version 2 or Version 2 to (just announced) Version 3 of SmartSDR. Flex >> Radio has to maintain a server system to control access remotely. The PGXL >> amplifier can be controlled directly through Maestro or a PC running >> SmartSDR v2.xx operating from a remote site. However, the “Tuner Genius” >> that is promised to go with the PGXL has not been released, so I’m limited >> to using my EFHW antenna to the KAT500 and the K3 setup since I do need to >> use a tuner with it. I will say that the bandwidth requirements of the >> Flex under the current V2.49 SmartSDR is significantly less than in the >> past so it works more reliably in “Low Bandwidth" mode. I also keep a >> Maestro in both Texas and New England. >> >> Having two different remote systems with different feature sets does >> provide some advantages: >> >> -Redundancy. In the event one system has a remote issue, I have the other >> to use as a backup. >> >> -Flexibility. I like to ‘listen’ so much of my time is spent listening >> or participating on nets. The K3 setup works well since I’m not >> particularly “hunting” for signals where a panadapter would be useful. >> Simply turn on the K3 and I’m on the last frequency I was tuned or I can >> enter the frequency of interest. I have the tuner and amplifier as needed, >> and 500W is usually more than sufficient for my needs. The Flex is more >> helpful if I’m searching the bands with a panadapter/waterfall, but the >> PGXL is only helpful on 10-15-20 where I have a yagi and don’t need to a >> tuner capable of handling the PGXL. Due to bandwidth issues, the Flex >> system does sometime ‘hiccup’ due to missed packets though this happens a >> lot less than previously. >> >> -Space. I spend 90% of my operating time running remote. At my >> locations in Texas and New England I have the Maestro and K3/0-Mini sitting >> on my 30” x 60’ office desk by the 27” Apple Display with West Mountain >> Radio external speakers that can be used with either system. The Remote >> Rig equipment, cabling, network ethernet switch, 120 VAC surge protected >> hub that powers the Remote Rig equipment, network switch, Maestro, >> Speakers, K3/0-Mini are either sitting on the floor or held in place with >> cable ties attached around the desk legs, out-of-the-way and out-of-sight. >> Of course, the ham shack itself in Georgia is a different matter given the >> amount of equipment installed, but the operating position has the real >> estate to handle it. (approximately 12 ft. x 30” of desk space). >> >> -Equipment Complexity: The K3/0-Mini and Remote Rig RRC-1258 are >> relatively simple devices. I’ve not had any issues with these devices and >> while there have been firmware upgrades they are few and not necessarily >> required. The Maestro is a much more complex piece of equipment which is >> essentially a device with built-in tablet that takes significant time to >> boot up and has firmware that controls the various knobs and indications >> and of course communicates with the Flex server to establish a connection >> to my Flex-6700. Any update to SmartSDR (the most recent was last December >> 2018 to v2.49 while Flex has announced that v3.0 will be available in March >> 2019) requires an update to the Flex-6700 and Maestro. This can be done >> remotely, but it also reflects the greater complexity of the system. >> >> My original Maestro (purchased new in 2017) has been recalled once at no >> charge and sent back once for non-warranty repairs. >> >> -Isolation. Running remote reduces the potential for surge issues where >> I’m actually operating as there are no external antennas. >> >> At the ham shack in Southeast Georgia, I have the K3 equipment physically >> separate from the Flex Equipment going through separate ethernet switches >> and isolated with Fiber Optic Converters for CAT5 connections to help >> reduce the probability of surge problems or a ethernet switch failure in >> the shack taking down both systems. RF connection of both systems to the >> antennas and dummy load is thorough an Antenna Genius which provides high >> isolation between antenna ports. The DSL modem and separate router are in >> the house while the ham shack itself is located in an air conditioned room >> located in the detached garage. I run a fiber optic cable between the >> house and ham shack to further isolate the network equipment in the house >> from the shack. >> >> Bottom line is that I like both systems and each system offers >> capabilities that the other does not have. Given that I’m over 1,100 miles >> from the ham shack most of the time, I’ve benefited from redundancy because >> things can go wrong and cannot be fixed until my next trip to southeast >> Georgia. Over the past year I’ve had issues with one or the other system >> but usually the other system is still up and running. >> >> From the user’s perspective, I do suggest that one needs to to carefully >> consider how exactly they will operate their system and what level of >> investment ($$$, sweat equity, real estate) they’re wiling or able to put >> into a remote system. Flex’s approach is certainly successful, but it is a >> complex and more expensive system that has taken many more years to develop >> than what Flex initially announced. Electraft’s approach is ’simpler’ in >> terms of making it possible to operate remotely, but it does appear >> relatively ‘kludgy’ given that it could certainly be streamlined if they >> thought it is worth the time and effort. If one is focused on ’pickup >> and go’ remote operation, the Flex Maestro (or SmartSDR on a laptop or >> SmartSDR for iOS on an Apple iPad) is certainly easier to manage than >> taking the K3/0-Mini with remote Rig setup. i have transported both the >> Maestro and K3/0-Mini w/Remote Rig in their respective Pelican Cases >> between locations before so I appreciate the steps needed to take down and >> setup this equipment. I later purchased used K3/O-Mini and Maestro devices >> to eliminate the need to transport (and take up space in my vehicle) >> between Texas (Fall/Winter) and New England (Spring/Summer) when cargo >> space is at a premium when transporting the XYL, family dog and the >> clothing and other items needed at the other QTH. >> >> >> FWIW, >> >> Barry Baines, WD4ASW >> (Keller, TX) >> >> >> >> > 73, >> > Fred >> > AE4ED >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 8:12 AM Jorge Diez - CX6VM < >> [email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hello >> >> >> >> any idea if will be a new control radio for remote? Like K3/0 Mini with >> >> remoterig integrated inside it? >> >> >> >> Maybe for Dayton will have it? >> >> >> >> -- >> >> 73, >> >> Jorge >> >> CX6VM/CW5W >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> >> Elecraft mailing list >> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ >> > Elecraft mailing list >> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> > Post: mailto:[email protected] >> > >> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[email protected] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[email protected] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
