Sure I can comment on the origin of parts:
There is nothing one can do about the origin of the parts... I work in
the electronics design industry as well and there really is nothing you
can build if you're only willing to use parts made in the USA. But
there is a LOT to be said about designed and manufactured locally. Its
more expensive but it does give you better control to more quickly
respond to problems. And I don't just mean "made in the USA" I mean
made where the design team is.
I'm not pulling the whole USA is better than anyone else in everything
garbage. I just feel that if the design team is in Germany that the
best place to make it is Germany if you want quality and the ability to
quickly respond to issues. Same holds true if a product is designed in
China.
~Brett
On Sun, 2010-02-14 at 11:48 -0500, S Sacco wrote:
> Hi Brett -
>
> I seriously think you're missing the point. The point was that other
> companies offer support, too, and they do. I agreed that Elecraft
> support is outstanding, so I'm pretty sure we're in agreement there.
>
> I note that you did not comment on the origin of the components inside
> the K3. ;-)
>
> While I like my K3's, I think you're romanticizing Elecraft. They're
> a for-profit business, and although staffed with passionate and highly
> talented people, I'm sure would close their doors if they could not
> turn a profit, which is entirely appropriate. I don't want anyone
> starving just to keep me happy - that would be Communism. Perhaps I'm
> alone in this regard, but I don't have an image in my mind of a wildly
> outnumbered band of Elecraftians ("Elecraftites"?) fighting valiantly
> on my behalf for all that's good and right and 10 dB better, versus
> the vastly larger, massed, swarming technical armies of YaeKenCom-Tec.
>
> Regarding me not being forced to purchase the K3. Brett, I've had
> this discussion MANY times, and have never once lost the argument. I
> was not, IMHO, particularly upstanding of Elecraft to publish a wildly
> optimistic release date, and then continue to publish wildly
> optimistic follow-on dates, most likely for the purpose of maintaining
> their existing orders, and attracting new ones. Wrong is just wrong,
> you know what I mean? Just because I could have chosen something else
> doesn't make what Elecraft did OK. Those, apparently like yourself,
> who have a lower threshold for what's ethical...that's your business,
> but that doesn't mean I have to agree, or lower MY standards, or not
> raise the issue when I feel it is appropriate. I sure hope they ship
> the P3 when they say they'll ship it. I may be wrong, but I think
> they did the same thing - strung out the release date - with the KRX3,
> didn't they?
>
> My goodness...I haven't said a peep in ages...yet, bewilderingly, you
> say: "someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang
> out here a lot. ". If, by "hang out here a lot", you mean "subscribe
> to the mailing list", then guilty as charged. I also subscribe to the
> k3 mailing list on Yahoo. Hope that's cool with you. :-)
>
> You're hardly "calling me out". (see above regarding the frequency
> of my posting).
>
> Sooo...the bottom line is that I think $700 is an awful lot of money
> for the P3, and I said so, and you don't think it's too much, and
> you've criticized me for expressing my opinion.
>
> Speaking of K3's, I have to finish putting one of mine back together.
> U1 on the DSP board burned out (thanks, Gary, for the fast support on
> that!) - but it shouldn't have (AF amplifiers are hardly high-tech).
> Originally, I ordered a new DSP board, but after a couple of week's
> waiting and no notice of shipping, I made an inquiry, only to find
> that they weren't in stock, and wouldn't be for a few more weeks.
> (Thanks Lisa for your help with that!). So, once again, we have
> great support on one hand, and a strange disconnect (no notification
> that the board wouldn't be available for awhile) on the other. I went
> to "Plan B", and had a friend of mine who has SMT experience and
> equipment, and he replaced the IC for me. I won't get the updates,
> but they're not that important to me.
>
> Take good care, Brett!
>
> 73,
> Steve NN4X
> EL98jh
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Brett Howard <br...@livecomputers.com> wrote:
> > Hell Yaesu has a great website with lots of information. Try giving
> > them a call and getting them to help you debug an issue! Try emailing
> > a designer! If you think Microsoft and HP provides excellent support
> > of their products you have a low standard.
> >
> > As far as your K3 arriving later than you thought it would its not
> > like you were forced into waiting for it. If you wanted your money
> > back you'd have been handed all of your payment in full no questions
> > asked. EVERYONE who ordered a K3 that early KNEW that it was going to
> > take a long time. Mine took around 10 months to get from the time
> > that I ordered it. I knew it was going to take that long and hell
> > they didn't even take my money until they shipped it.
> >
> > The K3 was sold just in time and it was plenty ready as far as
> > hardware goes. The list of changes in the radio as far as hardware
> > are quite small. The changes are minor tweaks for the most part as
> > well! Heck some of them are even improvements that add features that
> > no one was even expecting (like the high RF protection mod).
> >
> > For someone who complains so much about the products you sure hang out
> > here a lot. If they were as bad as you like to let on one would think
> > you'd have gone somewhere else. I feel the fact that you stick around
> > and keep complaining undeniable proof that Elecraft does it better
> > than anyone else. That fact that you voted with your money and own
> > their products solidify it even further.
> >
> > I only feel the need to call you out on it because someone else coming
> > into this area who's not used to hearing you complain might get the
> > wrong idea and think that there is actually a problem with the way
> > Elecraft does business! When really its just that you like to get
> > your gripes heard early and often.
> >
> > ~Brett (KC7OTG)
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:38 PM, S Sacco <nn4x.st...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Brett -
> >>
> >> While we're thinking about stuff...where do you suppose most of the
> >> components inside the P3 were manufactured?
> >>
> >> Regarding support...I don't know...HP (hardware) and Microsoft (OS)
> >> seem to have pretty large websites with lots of information on
> >> them...and plenty of updates...especially Microsoft security patches
> >> that they so like to dump on us every few Tuesdays. :-)
> >>
> >> Yeah, Elecraft support is excellent, but the flip side is that the
> >> company has a tendency to sell products that are not quite ready yet.
> >> I know; my first K3 was delivered 9 months after it was first
> >> promised.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Brett Howard <br...@livecomputers.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> All of that equipment was made by teams of Chinese people who are paid
> >>> very poorly and aren't treated all that well either. The P3 is a labor
> >>> of love put together by a select few engineers. Its probably built by
> >>> people in California with health coverage, life insurance, and a decent
> >>> living wage...
> >>>
> >>> Not to mention that Elecraft provides excellent support beyond that of
> >>> the sale! You're not going to get that from the company that made that
> >>> computer. You're not going to be informed of hardware modifications and
> >>> upgrades that will improve your system with well done step by step
> >>> documentation written up on how to perform the mods. Not to mention
> >>> that they'll even kit the parts to you if you can't find them on your
> >>> own. You get more than just the hardware for your 700 bucks!
> >>>
> >>> Just something to think about! Personally I see it as a little high but
> >>> still yet very fair!
> >>>
> >>> ~Brett (KC7OTG)
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