Posted for : Charles Hoes <[email protected]> ------------------------ From: Charles Hoes <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Off Topic Maybe: Hydrogen Fuel Cells Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:07:21 -0700 To: Graham Rae Dulmage <[email protected]>, Douglas McKean <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected]
> Actually, it seems to me that fuel cells might not be all that "far out." > We already pipe natural gas to most of the homes in America. Changing that > to hydrogen, or converting natural gas to hydrogen at the destination, > isn't all that difficult. In addition, the price of solar panels is still > falling rapidly. I live near Sacramento, California where there are > currently several houses equipped with full-roof amorphious solar panels. > They make much more energy in a day than they use. So far the price is > fairly high, but not as high as bringing in a power line in a rural area. > Using electricity to create hydrogen as a storage medium is a very common > process - it isn't particulary expensive and doesn't take any new > technology. > > Also, once you have a source of hydrogen at your house, it is a small step > to putting it into your vehicle to be used by fuel cells for electric > power. There are a number of fuel cell vehicle projects underway around > the world and they are showing great promise. The cells are getting > smaller, cheaper, and more reliable all the time. It appears to me that > the only step required to make them economically viable is the one required > to go from one-at-a-time hand production to mass production. They are > extremely simple in design and operation and will be very easy to mass > produce. > > I don't think it is at all out of line to be thinking in terms of a > "hydrogen economy" similar in scope to our current "hydrocarbon economy." > All of the pieces are available and have been shown to work. Solar panels > that are nailed on like roofing shingles are being mass produced, fuel > cells have been developed to the point where they are potentially > affordable to produce, electrolyzers for making hydrogen have been in use > for many years, all of the electronics necessary to condition the > electrical power for home or vehicle use can be gotten as standard "off the > shelf" equipment. > > Currently, the only hangups for vehicles are associated with the difficulty > of storing enough hydrogen to get a reasonable range, and the lack of > infrastructure to fill up as you travel. The infrastructure is trivial to > solve in the short run, a truck trailer full of hydrogen can easily be > parked at your local service station if there is a demand. The plumbing > and valving isn't significantly different or more costly than that used for > natural gas or propane. Range is still a problem because of the low energy > density of hydrogen. However, new developments such as the nano-tubes of > carbon that absorb huge amounts of hydrogen at close to atmospheric > pressure are being developed and tested. The storage problem for vehicles > hasn't been solved yet, but it probably will be. Storage at a home is > simple, standard gas storage tanks work nicely. > > I fully expect to see lots of applications for hydrogen fuel in the next > two or three decades (and possibly much sooner), much of it powered by > renewable resources such as solar and wind - probably in a distributed > system that has the generation and use facilities located at each user's > location. > > Charlie Hoes > > > At 11:55 PM 7/16/1999 -0400, Graham Rae Dulmage wrote: > > > >Douglas, > > > >The IEEE Spectrum May 1999 issue pages 45-52 had an excellent article on > >Fuel > >Cells by Ronald H. Wolk. It gave a number of web site addresses for more > > > >information about fuel cells as follows: > > > > http://www.fetc.doe.gov > > http://www.dodfuelcell.com > > http://www.nfcrc.uci.edu > > http://www.epri.com > > http://www.gri.org > > > >A lot of money has been put into these ideas and they are progressing > >along. > > > >Regards > > > > > >G. Rae Dulmage, B. Comm., > >President > >TelApprove Services Corporation > >1+613 257 3015 > >http://www.angelfire.com/on/telapprove > > > >Douglas McKean wrote: > > > >> I apologize if this is really off topic ... > >> > >> Having a *friendly* discussion about hydrogen > >> fuels cells replacing commercial power. I'm > >> taking the "you got to be kidden me!" side. > >> > >> Okey. Sometime in the future, imagine this > >> actually happens (stop laughing). Hydrogen > >> is pumped out to everyone where in some shed, > >> hopefully a quarter mile from my house, equipment > >> uses the hydrogen for power conversion in the form > >> of hydrogen fuel cells. Each residence has their > >> own substation in a sense. > >> > >> Question - Besides from some obvious construction > >> and engineering changes and JUST from a regulatory > >> point of view, what's involved here? > >> > >> I'm thinking it would be a nightmare. > >> > >> Gotta be some power people out there that after > >> they stop laughing might have something to say. > >> > >> There's gotta be some hefty building/construction > >> requirements that are similar to ones that cover > >> substations. Let alone what's involved with H2. > >> > >> Plus, if the cells are operating at a reduced > >> voltage level, the ampacity of the wires used > >> from the cells to the house would be unacceptably > >> large in gauge. My thinking is 3kw or higher fuel > >> cells to power a small house. > >> > >> Anyone care to take a shot? > >> > >> --------- > >> This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > >> To cancel your subscription, send mail to [email protected] > >> with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > >> quotes). For help, send mail to [email protected], > >> [email protected], [email protected], or > >> [email protected] (the list administrators). > > > > > >--------- > >This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. > >To cancel your subscription, send mail to [email protected] > >with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the > >quotes). For help, send mail to [email protected], > >[email protected], [email protected], or > >[email protected] (the list administrators). > > > > > > > > ---------------End of Original Message----------------- -------------------------- Ed Price [email protected] Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 619-505-2780 List-Post: [email protected] Date: 07/19/1999 Time: 09:35:54 Military & Avionics EMC Services Our Specialty Also Environmental / Metrology / Reliability -------------------------- --------- This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to [email protected] with the single line: "unsubscribe emc-pstc" (without the quotes). For help, send mail to [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], or [email protected] (the list administrators).
