Thank you, Doug. Looks like we have some rewiring to do. I greatly appreciate your finding this information for me.
Thanks, John From: Doug Nix [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 11:12 AM To: John Cochran Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Electrical components on hinged panels John, Here is the relevant text. Bolding added for emphasis: EN 60204-1:2006 11 Controlgear: location, mounting, and enclosures 11.1 General requirements All controlgear shall be located and mounted so as to facilitate: - its accessibility and maintenance; - its protection against the external influences or conditions under which it is intended to operate; - operation and maintenance of the machine and its associated equipment. 11.2 Location and mounting 11.2.1 Accessibility and maintenance All items of control gear shall be placed and oriented so that they can be identified without moving them or the wiring. For items that require checking for correct operation or that are liable to need replacement, those actions should be possible without dismantling other equipment or parts of the machine (except opening doors or removing covers, barriers or obstacles). Terminals not part of controlgear components or devices shall also conform to these requirements. All controlgear shall be mounted so as to facilitate its operation and maintenance from the front. Where a special tool is necessary to adjust, maintain, or remove a device, such a tool shall be supplied. Where access is required for regular maintenance or adjustment, the relevant devices shall be located between 0,4 m and 2,0 m above the servicing level. It is recommended that terminals be at least 0,2 m above the servicing level and be so placed that copductors and cables can be easily connected to them. No devices except devices for operating, indicating, measuring, and cooling shall be mounted on doors or on normally removable access covers of enclosures. Where control devices are connected through plug-in arrangements, their association shall be made clear by type (shape), marking or reference designation, singly or in combination (see 13.4.5). Plug-in devices that are handled during normal operation shall be provided with non-interchangeable features where the lack of such a facility can result in malfunctioning. PIug/socket combinations that· are handled during normal operation shall be located and mounted so as to provide unobstructed access. Test points for connection of test equipment, where provided, shall be: - mounted so as to provide unobstructed access; - clearly identified to correspond with the documentation (see 17.3); - adequately insulated; - sufficiently spaced. Normally this is taken to mean that pushbuttons, selector switches, pilot lights, HMIs, cooling fans, and instruments may be mounted on doors or removable covers. PLC's and remote I/O blocks are not normally included, although you might be able to successfully argue that installing a remote I/O block on the door lessens the amount of wiring that must cross the hinge, and is therefore preferable to running discrete wiring. Also note that there is a requirement for the wiring to be highly flexible: 13.3 Wiring inside enclosures Conductors inside enclosures shall be supported where necessary to keep them in place. Non-metallic ducts shall be permitted only when they are made with a flame-retardant insulating material (see the IEC 60332 series). It is recommended that electrical equipment mounted inside enclosures be designed and constructed in such a way as to permit modification of the wiring >from the front of the enclosure (see also 11.2.1). Where that is not practicable and control devices are connected from the rear of the enclosure, access doors or swingout panels shall be provided. Connections to devices mounted on doors or to other movable parts shall be made using flexible conductors in accordance with 12.2 and 12.6 to allow for the frequent movement of the part. The conductors shall be anchored to the fixed part and to the movable part independently of the electrical connection (see also 8.2.3 and 11.2.1). Conductors and cables that do not run in ducts shall be adequately supported. Terminal blocks or plug/socket combinations shall be used for control wIFIng that extends beyond the enclosure. For plug/socket combinations, see also 13.4.5 and 13.4.6. Power cables and cables of measuring circuits may be directly connected to the terminals of the devices for which the connections were intended. Section 12.2 deals with wiring materials, gauge and ampacity. Section 12.6 deals with the specific requirements for flexible cables. I'll leave you to review those sections on your own. Feel free to contact me with any questions. Happy Holidays to all! -- Doug Nix, A.Sc.T. IEEE PSES Toronto Chapter Toronto Section, Ontario, Canada [email protected] office: +1 (519) 650-4753 mobile +1 (519) 729-5704 fax +1 (519) 653-1318 Find me LinkedIn at http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougnix On 22-Dec-09, at 09:27 , John Cochran wrote: I have asked for the specific standard and clause that the inspector is using to declare our cart is unacceptable for installing components on the door. The product is a mobile control station for use in industrial process control. It contains a server and UPS in the main enclosure, with a Control Logix controller, Ethernet router and 24VDC power supply on the door. Main incoming power is terminated in the main enclosure through a 16A breaker and protective earth ground is permanently connected to the stainless steel enclosure. The power is then run to the UPS in the main enclosure bottom, then out of the UPS to the door for distribution to all the components through 5A breakers. This also includes coming back across the door hinge to the server and display. A separate permanently attached ground braid is run between the main enclosure and the door, to connect protective earth to the door. Guess I have to look at the EN60204 and see if I can find any problems with our wiring practices. John From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Allen Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 9:10 PM To: Doug Nix Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Electrical components on hinged panels Pretty sure it's allowed but would have to verify. EN60204 should be the Standard for the panel. Ask the inspector to point to a Standard and clause. On Dec 21, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Doug Nix <[email protected]> wrote: John, Is this industrial equipment? -- Doug Nix, A.Sc.T. IEEE PSES Toronto Chapter Toronto Section, Ontario, Canada [email protected] mobile (519) 729-5704 fax (519) 653-1318 Find me LinkedIn at http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougnix Fostering Technological Innovation and Excellence for the Benefit of Humanity. Celebrating 125 Years of Engineering the Future.http://www.ieee125.org On 21-Dec-09, at 17:51 , John Cochran wrote: Do you know if there is a CE compliance issue with attaching electrical components to a hinged door? For ease of construction, we often attach components to the access door of our industrial control panel enclosures. UL has evaluated our construction methods and certified us a UL508 Panel Shop. Criteria is that a solid earth ground is attached to the door, and all electrical cables are protected against damage. We are being told by a customer that electrical components are never allowed on a door, in compliance with CE. If UL finds it acceptable, I am not sure why it would be unacceptable for Europe. I have seen many enclosures in Europe with electrical components on a removable panel or door. Is the inspector exercising personal preference, or is there a compliance standard that backs up this decision to reject our wiring practices? Thanks, John Cochran - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. 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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. can be posted to that URL. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]>
