Rocks have been thrown from lawnmower blades and have killed or injured people. Do we now outlaw rocks because in some obscure instance they might get caught in a mower blade. Is there really a need to put “do not light, may explode” on stick of dynamite? Or ‘contents may be hot’ on a cup of hot coffee?
Not wanting to require immunity is not the same as not having immune products. Consumer awareness and consumer groups, and yes, law suits if needed; not government intervention. If you want guaranteed failure, get the government involved. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: John Allen [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 10:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question Seconded! Anyway, what would one of your “average” US customers say if, for example, one of their sophisticated modern consumer appliances (e.g. a robotic lawnmower/ vacuum cleaner/ “internet of things” kitchen appliance / “domestic robot” [already almost here!) – need I go on?) went haywire and ran them/their kids over in the garden/house or set fire to the house whilst everyone was in bed because their neighbour switched on their perfectly legally EM emissions-compliant CB set, TV, washing machine (etc.), but their own equipment was very susceptible to those EM emissions? Sue the perfectly innocent neighbour or else the manufacturer, the distributor etc? Maybe, if the first person (people) ever got out of hospital! Some may think I’m exaggerating but the same sort of thing has happened in the past in the US and elsewhere. The responsible approach is like many countries to legally require a reasonable level of EM immunity for consumer and industrial products (and the medical and some other sectors are even more stringent) – and since so many such countries already have the requirements in place, then why does the US government not take the “easy path” and introduce similar requirements? (same reasons, I suppose, as the opposition to gun-control and so on :(). The bean counters might want to rely on their product liability insurance – but that only works once or twice and then a company will find it difficult to get that anymore, and the resulting publicity can be horrendous. Prevention is better than punishment! Not politics on my part, just what I consider to be ethical common sense. John Allen W.London, UK From: Ed Price [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 14 September 2015 17:10 To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question Dennis: The rationale that you don’t need consumer electronics with a modicum of immunity works only for you, because you are what I would call an expert customer. You have the knowledge to ameliorate immunity problems, but most of the population does not have this capability. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: dward [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 8:20 AM To: 'Ed Price'; [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question I for one would never want the US to get into this arena. Too much regulation in the US as it is. Don’t need more and don’t want more. I’ll decide what is best for me, not the government. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: Ed Price [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 1:41 PM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question John: Unfortunately, American consumer electronics has no E-field immunity requirement. The only help a consumer gets is that little paragraph of legalese that advises you to re-orient your device and move further away from emitters. OTOH, most consumer equipment design which takes emission compliance into account will also yield reasonable immunity levels. My personal experience indicates that most immunity problems with consumer electronics is not a design problem but a reliability problem. As an example, last year a friend asked me to repair his semi-pro mixer board (used in a church environment); he had problems “everywhere” with distortion, low gain and external RF susceptibility. However, the mixer board was fine; it was his patch cords that were horribly abused and leaky. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -----Original Message----- From: John Woodgate [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 11:47 AM To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] RF Common Mode Immunity Test Question In message < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>, dated Sat, 12 Sep 2015, "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> writes: >A Ham never can be a source of interference, by definition (if they >respect their limits- in more than one way). It is clearly not true, given the unlimited lack of immunity exhibited by some products. Immunity isn't even controlled in the Americas. > >To me an amateur is not a HAM, but that is a matter of language I >suppose. Yes. 'Amateur' is the larval form. (;-) > >My example showed a (spiced up) example of lack of immunity in a >professional audio installation , that due pragmatic testing, too >cables with average screening properties Was it definitely due to cables? Much professional PA equipment is none too good on immunity. And there are far too many installations that don't exclusively use balanced lines. > -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See <http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk> www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: <http://www.ieee-pses.org/> http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: <http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html> http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> Mike Cantwell < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> David Heald: < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
