But the point is the solar panel is integrated into the test sample and must be used as the power source. The only issue is what to use to illuminate the panel. It seems patently obvious to me that an ordinary incandescent bulb (of sufficient power) is the solution for EMI testing.
Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Edward Price <[email protected]> Reply-To: Edward Price <[email protected]> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2019 06:57:29 +0000 To: <[email protected]> Conversation: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel Subject: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel When I built a solar system for my RV about 7 years ago, I used traditional 30 VDC panels supplying a remote switching power supply that does the 30 VDC to 12 VDC conversion. If I were to test that system for EMI, then yes, I could supply 30 VDC conventionally from any clean DC source. But, many systems intended for consumer home sales now use a different power conversion scheme. Each solar panel (typically 250 Watts) has its own small DC to 120 (or 240) VAC inverter. A 5kW panel farm might have 20 solar panels, with 20 inverters, all having their outputs connected parallel. In this case, the location of the inverter behind each solar panel might create coupling between the inverter and solar panel (as I described earlier). Perhaps you can simply use a few deep cycle batteries to simulate a solar panel (and not have to worry about illuminating a solar panel), but you will have to come up with a good engineering justification that the inverter has no interactions with the solar panel wiring or aluminum support frame. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Ken Javor [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 10:09 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel It¹s likely way more complex in space than a simple panel on earth generating something like 12 Vdc, but in space they connect various strings in parallel and series and shift the connections based on the load and impinging light as a spacecraft orbits the earth. Plus, in some cases a control system draws current from the cells in bursts, not steady state. So while the solar arrays generate dc or a very slowly varying dc potential, the array wiring can radiate if the current is switched fast enough. We check for that sort of thing on spacecraft, but note that the kind of light shining on the array has no bearing whatsoever on EMI emissions associated with the array. As long as you¹re getting enough light on t e array to generate the required power, you¹re good-to-go for EMI testing. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: DEREK WALTON <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 21:28:43 -0600 To: Ken Javor <[email protected]> Cc: EMC-PSTC <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel Hi All, I totally agree with Ken, folks are totally trying to over think this. Just shine incandescents so the inventor can run. The panel will not generate any noise. Cheers, Derek Walton. On Feb 14, 2019, at 8:41 PM, Ken Javor <[email protected]> wrote: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel OK, but why? It¹s an EMI test, not a test of solar array performance. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Edward Price <[email protected]> Reply-To: Edward Price <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 21:36:53 +0000 To: <[email protected]> Conversation: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel Subject: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel Ken: I got the impression from the original question that the solar panel was integrated with an inverter. That means that there might be coupling interactions between the inverter circuitry and the solar panel array conductors and/or the solar panel support structure. Indeed, the whole solar panel might be radiating noise that is backing up from the inverter. Ken, do you recall what type of light source they used to use for those high-vacuum chambers that were used to simulate a true space environment for satellites? Those lights would have an optimal light spectral characteristic. Chuck might want to see if he can access one of those facilities; they could do a solar exposure inside a shielded volume, and they wouldn¹t have to pull a vacuum. Maybe somebody in the solar panel industry has set up an RF shielded enclosure dedicated to solar panel testing. I could imagine about a two-foot diameter Solar Tube equivalent device, fitted at the top with a sun-tracking heliostat, directing the sunlight through a honeycomb filter enclosure penetration and onto the solar panel EUT. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Ken Javor [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:54 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel I am well aware that an incandescent light bulb doesn¹t emit the same spectral signature as received from the sun. But the test is not about the detailed performance of the solar panel, but only that the device-under-test runs off electricity generated by the solar panel. Unless the EMI signature somehow depends on the type of light impinging on the panels, as opposed to a nominal electric output from the panels, it would seem that any electrically quiet light source would suffice. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Scott Aldous <[email protected]> Reply-To: Scott Aldous <[email protected]> Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 08:27:27 -0800 To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel Hi Ken, A 500W incandescent light will give you some voltage/current from your solar panel, but it won't be representative of actual sunlight if this is important to your test. The spectrum (or energy) for artificial light will not be the same as the spectrum of sunlight. UL 1703 makes reference to a few different standards, including ASTM E927 <https://www.astm.org/Standards/E927.htm> , which describes performance requirements for a solar simulator <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_simulator> . IEC 60904-9 <https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/3880> does the same. Here <http://www.eternalsun.com/industries/certification/> is an example of a solar simulator manufacturer claiming that their product is appropriate for PV cert testing, including for IEC 61215 <https://webstore.iec.ch/preview/info_iec61215-1%7Bed1.0%7Db.pdf> . This is very likely overkill for what you need to do, but you should be aware of the limitations of using a common incandescent. IEC 62920:2017 covers PCE (power conversion equipment, i.e. the inverter), but not the modules themselves so I don't believe it has guidance on an artificial light source. On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 2:09 AM John Woodgate <[email protected]> wrote: CISPR 11:2015 CSV covers radiation. IEC 62920:2017 is also needed. Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk> <http://www.woodjohn.uk> <http://www.woodjohn.uk/> Rayleigh, Essex UK On 2019-02-14 03:36, Ken Javor wrote: Waited to see if anyone would answer and didn¹t see any answers, so what about a 500 W work light? They are incandescent. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: "Grasso, Charles" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> Reply-To: "Grasso, Charles" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 21:29:42 +0000 To: <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> Conversation: Testing a product with that uses a solar panel Subject: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel Hello, I need to test a solar panel powered product for Radiated Emissions. The solar panel is integrated with the electronics. Does anyone have any ideas on how to have the panel function when testing in a chamber? I am looking at you test labs!! Thanks! Charles Grasso W: 303-706-5467 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]> David Heald <[email protected]> -- Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | [email protected] | 650-253-1994 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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