Solar panels look more like current sources than voltage sources. (There is a limit to the voltage they can generate when left open circuit)
The "maximum power point" tracker optimises the impedance they see (for maximum power) This is done with switching circuits that can couple RF energy into the panel cables. The nature of the coupled energy presumably changes with the operating point. The panels are not always operated at the point of maximum power. For instance, when the inverter isolated from the mains there is only the energy required to operate the inverter. At other times, the inverter may be instructed to not "feed in" energy to the mains i.e. generate just enough to meet the local load. Presumably, the coupled energy should be evaluated under the various operating conditions. Regards Jon Keeble CTO Wattwatchers On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 8:27 AM Ken Javor <[email protected]> wrote: > Absolutely. The solar array interconnect is an antenna for both RE and RS. > The point is that for RE to happen, there has to be fast switching of > current as a load on the array. The array itself into a resistive load is > entirely dc. > > Ken Javor > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Martin, Charles R (BHGE)" <[email protected]> > *Date: *Fri, 15 Feb 2019 21:21:56 +0000 > *To: *Ken Javor <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > *Conversation: *[PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > *Subject: *RE: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > > Ken, > > You mentioned “the array wiring can radiate if the *current *is switched > fast enough”, couldn’t that also pick noise from other RF sources, as in > Radiated Immunity? > > Thanks, > Charlie > > > *From:* Ken Javor <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, February 15, 2019 1:09 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* EXT: Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > > It’s likely way more complex in space than a simple panel on earth > generating something like 12 Vdc, but in space they connect various strings > in parallel and series and shift the connections based on the load and > impinging light as a spacecraft orbits the earth. Plus, in some cases a > control system draws current from the cells in bursts, not steady state. So > while the solar arrays generate dc or a very slowly varying dc *potential*, > the array wiring can radiate if the *current *is switched fast enough. > We check for that sort of thing on spacecraft, but note that the kind of > light shining on the array has no bearing whatsoever on EMI emissions > associated with the array. As long as you’re getting enough light on t e > array to generate the required power, you’re good-to-go for EMI testing. > > Ken Javor > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *DEREK WALTON <[email protected]> > *Date: *Thu, 14 Feb 2019 21:28:43 -0600 > *To: *Ken Javor <[email protected]> > *Cc: *EMC-PSTC <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > > Hi All, > > I totally agree with Ken, folks are totally trying to over think this. > > Just shine incandescents so the inventor can run. The panel will not > generate any noise. > > Cheers, > > Derek Walton. > > On Feb 14, 2019, at 8:41 PM, Ken Javor <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > OK, but why? It’s an EMI test, not a test of solar array performance. > > Ken Javor > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *Edward Price <[email protected]> > *Reply-To: *Edward Price <[email protected]> > *Date: *Thu, 14 Feb 2019 21:36:53 +0000 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *Conversation: *[PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > *Subject: *Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > > > > > > > > > > > *Ken: I got the impression from the original question that the solar > panel was integrated with an inverter. That means that there might be > coupling interactions between the inverter circuitry and the solar panel > array conductors and/or the solar panel support structure. Indeed, the > whole solar panel might be radiating noise that is backing up from the > inverter. Ken, do you recall what type of light source they used to use > for those high-vacuum chambers that were used to simulate a true space > environment for satellites? Those lights would have an optimal light > spectral characteristic. Chuck might want to see if he can access one of > those facilities; they could do a solar exposure inside a shielded volume, > and they wouldn’t have to pull a vacuum. Maybe somebody in the solar > panel industry has set up an RF shielded enclosure dedicated to solar panel > testing. I could imagine about a two-foot diameter Solar Tube equivalent > device, fitted at the top with a sun-tracking heliostat, directing the > sunlight through a honeycomb filter enclosure penetration and onto the > solar panel EUT. * > > *Ed Price * > > > *WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA * > *From:* Ken Javor [mailto:[email protected]] > <[email protected]]> > *Sent:* Thursday, February 14, 2019 8:54 AM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > > I am well aware that an incandescent light bulb doesn’t emit the same > spectral signature as received from the sun. > > But the test is not about the detailed performance of the solar panel, but > only that the device-under-test runs off electricity generated by the solar > panel. Unless the EMI signature somehow depends on the type of light > impinging on the panels, as opposed to a nominal electric output from the > panels, it would seem that any electrically quiet light source would > suffice. > > Ken Javor > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > > ------------------------------ > > > *From: *Scott Aldous <[email protected]> > *Reply-To: *Scott Aldous <[email protected]> > *Date: *Thu, 14 Feb 2019 08:27:27 -0800 > *To: *<[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > > Hi Ken, > > A 500W incandescent light will give you some voltage/current from your > solar panel, but it won't be representative of actual sunlight if this is > important to your test. The spectrum (or energy) for artificial light will > not be the same as the spectrum of sunlight. UL 1703 makes reference to a > few different standards, including ASTM E927 < > https://www.astm.org/Standards/E927.htm> , which describes performance > requirements for a solar simulator < > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_simulator> . IEC 60904-9 < > https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/3880> does the same. Here > <http://www.eternalsun.com/industries/certification/> > <http://www.eternalsun.com/industries/certification/> is an example of a > solar simulator manufacturer claiming that their product is appropriate for > PV cert testing, including for IEC 61215 < > https://webstore.iec.ch/preview/info_iec61215-1%7Bed1.0%7Db.pdf> . This > is very likely overkill for what you need to do, but you should be aware of > the limitations of using a common incandescent. > > IEC 62920:2017 covers PCE (power conversion equipment, i.e. the inverter), > but not the modules themselves so I don't believe it has guidance on an > artificial light source. > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 2:09 AM John Woodgate <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > CISPR 11:2015 CSV covers radiation. IEC 62920:2017 is also needed. > > > Best wishes > John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only > J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk> > <http://www.woodjohn.uk> <http://www.woodjohn.uk> > <http://www.woodjohn.uk> <http://www.woodjohn.uk> > <http://www.woodjohn.uk> <http://www.woodjohn.uk/> > <http://www.woodjohn.uk/> > Rayleigh, Essex UK > > On 2019-02-14 03:36, Ken Javor wrote: > > > Waited to see if anyone would answer and didn’t see any answers, so what > about a 500 W work light? They are incandescent. > > Ken Javor > Phone: (256) 650-5261 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > *From: *"Grasso, Charles" <[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> > *Reply-To: *"Grasso, Charles" <[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> > *Date: *Wed, 13 Feb 2019 21:29:42 +0000 > *To: *<[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > *Conversation: *Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > *Subject: *[PSES] Testing a product with that uses a solar panel > > Hello, > > I need to test a solar panel powered product for Radiated Emissions. The > solar panel > is integrated with the electronics. Does anyone have any ideas on how to > have the panel > function when testing in a chamber? > > I am looking at you test labs!! > > Thanks! > > Charles Grasso > W: 303-706-5467 > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site > at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> > <[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to & > LT;[email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > > -- > Scott Aldous | Regulatory Compliance Program Manager | > [email protected] | 650-253-1994 > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > > - > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > [email protected]> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <[email protected]> > Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <[email protected]> > David Heald <[email protected]> > -- *Jon Keeble* CTO *m:* 0407 842 840 *e:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *skype:* jkeeble *wattwatchers.com.au <http://wattwatchers.com.au/>* - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
