Doug,
Are these papers online somewhere? I looked at the ESDA site but I could not find an archive of papers. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place. Cheers, Jeff From: doug emcesd.com [mailto:d...@emcesd.com] Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 10:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2) This was pretty much done in the 90s with many round robin tests. The culprit is the lack of di/dt control and lack of control on EM radiation from the simulator. The two factors dominate everything else. No need to duplicate previous work. Just read the papers on the results from the significant amount of research that was done, of which I was a part. Doug Sent from my iPhone IPhone: 408-858-4528 Office: 702-570-6108 Email: d...@dsmith.org <mailto:d...@dsmith.org> Website: http://dsmith.org _____ From: Ken Javor <ken.ja...@emccompliance.com <mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com> > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 8:17:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2) No insight into what Doug mentioned, but before tightening up on equipment performance requirements, with attendant cost impact to test facilities, I would want to know that the variability between test facilities due to practice are not the dominating factor. I would want to improve test procedure controls to where everyone does the test close enough to the same that if there is still unacceptable variability, then, and only then, do we look at the test equipment. In order to assess that, you would round-robin using the same model of gun. Perhaps that is one of the many things to which Doug referred. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 _____ From: "doug emcesd.com" <d...@emcesd.com <mailto:d...@emcesd.com> > Reply-To: "doug emcesd.com" <d...@emcesd.com <mailto:d...@emcesd.com> > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 19:41:42 +0000 To: <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Conversation: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2) Subject: Re: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2) Hi Montara, There are more stories than I can type here. The standard as written is not very good. We addressed this in the early to mid-1990s and determined what was necessary. We also did a lot of round robin testing. Probably most of what you want has been published in the 1990s. Look at the ESD Association papers from the era. Look for authors like myself (we were all involved with revising 61000-4-2), Jon Barth, Ken Hall, Hugh Hyatt. Everything you need was done back then and rejected by the EU members for various reasons that I do not consider valid. Sent from my iPhone IPhone: 408-858-4528 Office: 702-570-6108 Email: d...@dsmith.org <mailto:d...@dsmith.org> Website: http://dsmith.org _____ From: Monrad Monsen <monrad.mon...@oracle.com <mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com> > Sent: Monday, October 14, 2019 9:43:54 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> <EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> > Subject: [PSES] Any Different Results in ESD Testing when Changing Brands of ESD Simulator (IEC 61000-4-2) Hi! Does anyone have any stories that can be shared of a product getting a different ESD test result when changing the brand/model of ESD simulator? I am a member of the US Technical Advisory Group (TAG) for CISPR/I international standards committee (Electromagnetic compatibility of information technology equipment, multimedia equipment and receivers). There is a proposal that SC77B begin work on changes to IEC 61000-4-2 (ESD) to improve the ESD waveform verification (some call this "calibration") because under today's rules different simulators create different levels of high frequency signal content which some believe is the primary reason for different test results. Some believe that the IEC 61000-4-2 waveform requirement fails to include any evaluation of the slope (dV/dt or dI/dt) of the impulse, and that uncontrolled parameter directly affects spectral content. I would like to know if anyone has experienced any actual ESD test result consistency when using different Brand/model ESD simulators even though they are all calibrated simulators under today's rules. I admit that our company uses the same brand & model ESD simulator as local labs, so I have never observed this issue myself. My initial preference is to not add cost to testing and avoid forcing labs to buy new ESD simulators, but perhaps this cost is warranted if there are actual wide variations in ESD test results depending on the brand of ESD simulator. Thanks. Monrad Monsen | Hardware Compliance Strategist Phone: +1.303.272.9612 Oracle Market Access & Hardware Compliance Strategy 500 Eldorado Blvd | Broomfield, CO 80021 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
