I agree with Ted, you'll need to try this out first. Just because it is flame retardant does not mean it will be mechanically suitable for the pressures involved during a lithium battery catastrophic failure. If the enclosure is breached because it cannot physically contain the failure it won't matter what its flame rating is.
Have a good weekend everyone, Dan From: Ted Eckert <000007cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org <mailto:000007cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> > Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 6:40 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: Re: [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape Hello Charlie, I apologize for not answering your question directly, but I would like to respond based on the general intent. Kapton tape is flame resistant, but I recommend that you take samples and apply a flame to see how it reacts. My personal opinion is that Kapton tape won't contribute fuel to a fire, but it isn't likely to contain it either. Thin film material might not be suitable if the intent is to slow the progression of a fire to keep it from reaching other flammable material. Consider fabricating the proposed tape enclosure on a few sample batteries and intentionally fault them to induce an exothermic reaction. The results may give an indication whether you want to pursue this path further. Best regards, Ted Eckert The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer or TC 108. From: Charlie Blackham <char...@sulisconsultants.com <mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> > Sent: Friday, October 8, 2021 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [PSES] UL 510 Flame retardant tape All Various Kapton tapes are sold as Flame Retardant, some seem to reference UL 94 and others UL 510. The scenario is a product falling under EN 62368-1 and the secondary lithium battery needs a fire enclosure and rather than using the product enclosure, one could be made for the battery using a suitable plastic or manual application of retardant tape. Is there any correlation between UL 510 and UL94 when considering creating a Fire Enclosure for a battery as per Clause M.4.3 ? Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Mead House Longwater Road Eversley RG27 0NW UK Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Email: <mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com> char...@sulisconsultants.com Web: <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsuliscons ultants.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Ca6e307923eb9431b8 04a08d98a5f1a71%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637692963354416 861%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bDpGeGKKgswxO6hhPR9RaXpY1x1P2RWBVKILs58KSnk% 3D&reserved=0> https://sulisconsultants.com/ Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-p ses.org%2Femc-pstc.html&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Ca6e30792 3eb9431b804a08d98a5f1a71%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637692 963354426853%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ BTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=zHtaHdMrTILn401csXs%2FTG7tXT7NBmXLF 1vtf%2BYwcpo%3D&reserved=0> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fproduct-co mpliance.oc.ieee.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Ca6e30792 3eb9431b804a08d98a5f1a71%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637692 963354426853%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJ BTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=eDXvuuurh5aEKKUrpx%2BaYRtt4H8I4PDH3 IG0qcOYaM4%3D&reserved=0> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-p ses.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Ca6e307923eb9431b804a0 8d98a5f1a71%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637692963354436847% 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwi LCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pXUMtU5JHWWwXSybPLThYixzb4AofBu80%2Fk07Jy8xx8%3D &reserved=0> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-p ses.org%2Flist.html&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Ca6e307923eb9 431b804a08d98a5f1a71%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C6376929633 54436847%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI 6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=qrmWfCKmaLESGVZZDMvBxKb9ZdLzVWDVPBFjMhj R8lU%3D&reserved=0> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ieee-p ses.org%2Flistrules.html&data=04%7C01%7Cted.eckert%40microsoft.com%7Ca6e3079 23eb9431b804a08d98a5f1a71%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C63769 2963354446843%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLC JBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=uQRHZDZpdRybVCThBqDfVui83sQXWDyanq 3Cr9PARp4%3D&reserved=0> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org <mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org> > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org <mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org <mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org> > For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org <mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com <mailto:dhe...@gmail.com> > - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
