Comments and feed back it what I am seeking the most, a really appreciate the
participation
>This list is not the place to stir up that interest. We tend to be much to
>independent but then that is a very different lecture that I refer to as
>Explorers vs Settlers.
I see this list as the most forward thinking groups out there, with both
Explorers and Settles. However I would love to hear a short version of your
lecture.
I also would like to point out a few things. I don't pretend to be independent
but our discourse is more about vision rather than a pitch. We envisions a day
when a machinist apprentice instead of making practice parts he or she makes
parts that can be assembled into a machine for them selves. I personally see a
huge potential to democratize access to manufacturing tools around the world.
Growing up in a third world country i now about the needs and the high cost
(200-300%) of what it cost in the US. If it wasn't for the US, Japan and
Western Europe's investment in China they wouldn't be able to produce anything
cheaply even with low cost labor.
>It is easy to imagine a place in an open machine project for a "broker" like
>MFG. But a business like that assumes a demand for a specific number of
>widgets on the customer side.
A project like this has little impact on the bottom line of MFG we are really
exploring here...that is why we created MFG Labs to play in a sand box. I've
been at Bell Labs and HP and I never liked the secrecy thing. I am
experimenting here having an open discussion with a user community.
>The cost of production might go up a bit over a Haas or similar machine
>because of quantity discounts and after market sales and service.
indeed, however a 50% cost reduction DIY is what we are looking at. I
personally would like something a bit more precision than a Hass, plus this
wouldn't be for everyone, some user will stick with what they have and know.
>> I've never build a
>> CNC machine before, however I like the challenge of reducing the price
>> of proprietary hardware.
>I wonder if the advantage of an open or collaborative project is not in
>reducing cost of production, but the cost of distribution or similar
>costs by cutting out the "middle man" (and maybe the tax man). This has
>a history too.
What about empowerment? having control over what the hardware can do? One of
the reasons I don't like new cars
>> We tend to be much to independent ...
>The frustrating part is that one person can only do so much. So we are
>relegated to pastime or hobby activities (not that that is bad).
That is way I want to go big, and ask the question what do people need?
----- Original Message ----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 11:44:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] home-mad CNC machine project.
This list is probably as good a place to carry forward a bit of thinking about
open hardware and virtual CNC machine companies as any because this is THE
place to find the control software for a wide range of these kinds of devices.
I'll snip both Kirk and Jorge quite a bit and I suggest you do the same if you
reply to this.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I am trying to see if through innovative sourcing and design the price
> of VMC of HMC could be brought down. Way down.
The current innovative sourcing, and increasingly the design, is called
China, or the next poor country lucky enough to get a chance to gain
what many take for granted. Trying to get people to do more work for
less money has a long history.
Um yes in a way but the low-cost labor advantage works best for mass produced
products which CNC has never been. Consider even the largest room full of CNCs
and it's a small handful compared to toasters or automobiles. And yes many
Chinese machine tool companies, all of the ones I've visited, have engineering
staffs that are hungry to design and develop these kinds of projects. They
also have managers and bean counters that compel cost effective work and
distribution agreements within the constraints of international trade. IMO the
issue of low cost labor out there doesn't prevent the development of a low-cost
CNC machine elsewhere -- ie this list. Certainly it will lower the bar that we
have to slide under and in the long run our cost effective designs will become
their next round of released products.
> The over all objective is to try and create open source hardware
> designs. I am not doing this on my own I am being sponsored by my
> company MFG.com to try and get this off the ground.
It is easy to imagine a place in an open machine project for a "broker" like
MFG. But a business like that assumes a demand for a specific number of
widgets on the customer side. Any open design is going to take a while to
place the first few. I think this was one of the issues with Kirks first
suggested project. It doesn't just happen out of a couple of posts.
Several years ago, a fellow named Hassan designed and built a nice, low-cost
benchtop mill as part of his graduate degree and brought it to NAMES and Fest
(EMC-Monday). I believe that he is still receiving this list. That mill
created a LOT of interest at the show and quite a few folk were ready to sign
up to purchase a kit that included all of the aluminum and leadscrew parts.
Just guessing but I'd say he could have sold 25 kits on the spot. The point is
that it is possible to stir interest that would lead to a first round of
ordering. But it does require a real prototype that does some real work.
This list is not the place to stir up that interest. We tend to be much to
independent but then that is a very different lecture that I refer to as
Explorers vs Settlers.
> I've never build a
> CNC machine before, however I like the challenge of reducing the price
> of proprietary hardware.
I wonder if the advantage of an open or collaborative project is not in
reducing cost of production, but the cost of distribution or similar
costs by cutting out the "middle man" (and maybe the tax man). This has
a history too.
The cost of production might go up a bit over a Haas or similar machine because
of quantity discounts and aftermarket sales and service. It's a bit like the
cost of a PC being lower if it includes that other OS because of all the
advertising and steering of next expenditure provided by that company's install.
But you are right that there are savings to be had at nearly all levels. Put
on top of that the customer supplying the assembly, tuning, and testing and we
have some real advantage.
Rayh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse0120000070mrt/direct/01/
_______________________________________________
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
