On Tue, 15 May 2018 19:21:55 +0200 Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> said:
> Do what you like, call the time here. I give this up. I deleted the > calendar item and removed the wiki content regarding the proposed solution. > > I proposed this now 7 days ago, no one was opposed you even wrote > "I'm in on this. Already added it to my own personal calendar with > notifications etc." Now it seems that the wind has change 180° degrees > and we are from "I'm on this" to "I am against this". Both Okra and you convinced me with: "I'm well aware the other time slot allows for North Americans but it will then cut out anyone else. That's the point I was making - there is going to be little crossover. between the two groups of people meeting - and I don't think that is a good thing." "Just reminding you, UTC + 20 means that there will likely be noone else part of the meeting beside US people." People of late have been pointing fingers at me saying I don't listen, and I never change my mind and that it's impossible to do so etc. (despite me pointing at examples othrwise), and here these points seem really important and creating basically 2 groups sounds pretty bad to me and devalues the meetings significantly and will create friction etc. > Greetings, > bu5hm4n > > On 05/15/2018 04:48 PM, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > On Tue, 15 May 2018 08:57:50 +0200 Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> said: > > > >> We tried that last time, and you where the only one from the KR Timezone > >> while there are many committers from that part of the world, thats why i > >> say, try it this week with the other time, and see if it changes :) > > > > hermet was there for one, Christophe too. believe me when i say they wold > > have no issues staying up late (they do it often enough at the office). it > > has nothing to do with timezone, and more to do with "they wouldn't turn up > > regardless of time". in fact night times re technically far better as irc is > > blocked in their office environment unless you jump through hoops. > > > >> Also i dont see a problem with doing 2 meetings close to each other, > >> where one group is then just "reworking" the items from the last > >> meetings, giving theire decisions to it. In our case there is also a > >> overlapping group of people which is not too small, so its not really > >> seperated with the URC + 8 UTC + 16 time proposal. > > > > then that's just email with 2 entities passing back and forth. not really a > > meeting. :(. > > > >> Greetings, > >> bu5hm4n > >> > >> On 05/15/2018 07:35 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > >>> On Mon, 14 May 2018 18:38:38 +0200 Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> > >>> said: > >>> > >>>> I dont have strong feelings if its either shifted by 12h or by something > >>>> else. Just reminding you, UTC + 20 means that there will likely be noone > >>>> else part of the meeting beside US people. I dont want to propose that > >>>> some timezone needs to be active in both meethings, but it could > >>>> definitly help to have a few voices in both meetings, so things dont go > >>>> that orthogonal. > >>> > >>> i have to agree that doing it so that you end up with basically 2 > >>> disparate groups is bad. it's not a meeting then. we may as well just do > >>> things by mail if people have to "read the minutes later and then > >>> respond". you end up with an email-like back and forth between meeting > >>> groups. > >>> > >>> i say 1 time, and you make it, or you don't. if you care you make the time > >>> (stay up very late or get up early and sacrifice sleep). of course people > >>> have other things too in their lives, but this will just be dysfunctional > >>> if we end up dividing meeting groups up. and this was a good point. pick > >>> one time when most can make it with some effort. > >>> > >>> the previous 15:00 UTC slot seems to be about as good as it gets i think. > >>> > >>>> Greetings, > >>>> bu5hm4n > >>>> > >>>> On 05/14/2018 06:12 PM, Stephen Houston wrote: > >>>>> As Mike suggested and I've been saying... the meetings need to be > >>>>> exactly 12 hours apart, not 8 hours. So if Tuesday was UTC+8, Thursday > >>>>> would be UTC+20... then the next Tuesday UTC+20 and the next Thursday > >>>>> UTC+8, etc... > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, May 14, 2018, 9:42 AM Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Okay, then lets say that we meet at the first full week and every third > >>>>>> full week, always on Tuesday and Thursday. > >>>>>> On the first week Tuesday is at UTC + 8 and Thursday at UTC + 16. > >>>>>> In the third week Tuesday is at UTC + 16 and Thursday at UTC + 8. > >>>>>> (This month however is a exception and we start this scheudule first > >>>>>> fully in June.) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Meetings are captured with a IRC logger. > >>>>>> A few people can write the meeting minutes into http://collabedit.com. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> After the meetings the log is uploaded to the wiki same as the contents > >>>>>> that have been captured in collabedit document. > >>>>>> After that the wiki link can be sent to the mailinglists as reminder of > >>>>>> what happened. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> How does that sound to you? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Greetings, > >>>>>> bu5hm4n > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 05/11/2018 03:39 PM, Mike Blumenkrantz wrote: > >>>>>>> This is actually similar to how many projects organize their meetings. > >>>>>>> Having two separate meetings at "opposite" times allows everyone to > >>>>>>> have > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>> choice of meetings to attend with at least one of the times being > >>>>>>> optimal for any given location. Using proper recording methods, > >>>>>>> everyone is then able to see what happened at each meeting. In the > >>>>>>> meeting procedures page (which should exist if it doesn't already), it > >>>>>>> should be documented that the meeting notes should be sent to all > >>>>>>> related channels/lists after each meeting to promote community > >>>>>>> involvement. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I think that if everyone is okay with at least one of these times then > >>>>>> this > >>>>>>> is fine, though it should be noted that this time schedule makes it > >>>>>> awkward > >>>>>>> for any particular region to attend both meetings; traditionally the > >>>>>>> time rotates exactly 12 hours so that at least one timezone is capable > >>>>>>> of attending every meeting. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The only adjustment I would make is that the meetings should be moved > >>>>>>> to weekly in this case. If the meeting times rotate and are set for > >>>>>>> every > >>>>>> two > >>>>>>> weeks, this means that each group meets only once a month--hardly as > >>>>>> useful. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:08 PM Stephen Houston > >>>>>>> <smhousto...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'm well aware the other time slot allows for North Americans but it > >>>>>> will > >>>>>>>> then cut out anyone else. That's the point I was making - there is > >>>>>> going > >>>>>>>> to be little crossover. between the two groups of people meeting - > >>>>>>>> and I don't think that is a good thing. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 2:06 PM Carsten Haitzler > >>>>>>>> <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, 10 May 2018 14:55:07 +0000 Stephen Houston < > >>>>>>>> smhousto...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>> said: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> This was the best time you could come up with for the meetings? > >>>>>>>>>> 4-6AM > >>>>>>>>> EST, > >>>>>>>>>> 3-5AM CDT, 2-4AM MST, and 1-3AM PDT? That pretty much means that > >>>>>>>>>> no > >>>>>>>>> North > >>>>>>>>>> Americans are going to be present at all... at least with the time > >>>>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>> were > >>>>>>>>>> using for the meetings previously, it is reasonable enough for > >>>>>>>>>> North Americans, Europeans, and Asians to all attend whether it be > >>>>>>>>>> 8AM on > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> west coast of US or 11PM for like indefini in Japan... sure that is > >>>>>>>>> easier > >>>>>>>>>> for US... but then you just flip that time for the second meeting > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>> its > >>>>>>>>>> still reasonable enough for all to attend but easier for indefini > >>>>>>>>>> in Japan. This is what I was expecting. Not a time that is > >>>>>>>>>> basically > >>>>>>>> going > >>>>>>>>>> to mean: US gets to meet the first meeting of the month with > >>>>>>>>>> eachother > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>> then Eastern European/Asians get to meet with eachother the second > >>>>>>>>> meeting > >>>>>>>>>> of the month and there is no crossover (minus Western Europeans > >>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>>> make both). I foresee that as being bad and not really working > >>>>>>>>>> out. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> ummm you need to look at the other time slot too. i don't think > >>>>>>>>> we're going to > >>>>>>>>> do 2hrs each... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?pl=1&lid=100,8,5,1850147&h=100 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> so one is 1am/4am PDT/EDT an the other is 9am/12pm PDT/EDT. (CDT > >>>>>>>>> being > >>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> between). and note on the other end with Japan (and Korea etc.) > >>>>>>>>> time. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> :) so they keep flipping between 2 times to try and let everyone > >>>>>>>>> attend > >>>>>>>> at > >>>>>>>>> least once a month. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:58 AM Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2018 09:22 AM, Simon Lees wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/05/18 13:20, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 17:17:14 +0000 Mike Blumenkrantz > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <michael.blumenkra...@gmail.com> said: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> While I can see some summarization of meeting items on the > >>>>>>>>> relatively > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> obscure https://phab.enlightenment.org/V33, which is > >>>>>>>> inaccessible > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>> anyone > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> who has not been avidly following the mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives--ie. > >>>>>>>>> will > >>>>>>>>>>> never > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be visible to any new community members--this is not quite the > >>>>>>>>> same as > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> recording the minutes of a meeting. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> see the ticket that this was all about. it's there in the ticket > >>>>>>>>> itself > >>>>>>>>>>> in the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> body. that is where the conversation was happening so it's > >>>>>>>>> summarized > >>>>>>>>>>> there. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://phab.enlightenment.org/T6740 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> i don't see why etherpad is needed. we have plenty of tools on > >>>>>>>> phab > >>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> this. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> no one disagreed with a wiki page. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> you were talking as if people need to have it explained to them > >>>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>>>> minutes > >>>>>>>>>>>>> are: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Typically for meetings where items of substance are discussed, > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> minutes > >>>>>>>>>>>>> will be recorded for posterity: > >>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutes"; > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> marcel already said: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> "But i agree in general that there should be a wiki page for > >>>>>>>>> monitoring > >>>>>>>>>>>>> contents of the meetings and some them up." > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ... so again. i see no reason why minutes will not be taken and > >>>>>>>>>>> recorded. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> What I would like to see and I think what Mike is getting at is a > >>>>>>>>> wiki > >>>>>>>>>>>> page either on the main wiki or somewhere on phab, which atleast > >>>>>>>>> lists > >>>>>>>>>>>> all the links to the meeting summaries rather then just having > >>>>>>>>> obscure > >>>>>>>>>>>> phab links to them. Even better would be if all the summaries > >>>>>>>>>>>> were > >>>>>>>>> also > >>>>>>>>>>>> just in one page so you didn't have to click links to follow the > >>>>>>>>>>>> previous meetings. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Yep, thats what i want to do on this page and the linked pages > >>>>>>>>>>> https://phab.enlightenment.org/w/meetings/ :). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>>>>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>>>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > >>>>>> -------------- > >>>>>>>>> Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>>>> > >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list > >>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
