On 15/05/18 15:05, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > On Mon, 14 May 2018 18:38:38 +0200 Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> said: > >> I dont have strong feelings if its either shifted by 12h or by something >> else. Just reminding you, UTC + 20 means that there will likely be noone >> else part of the meeting beside US people. I dont want to propose that >> some timezone needs to be active in both meethings, but it could >> definitly help to have a few voices in both meetings, so things dont go >> that orthogonal. > > i have to agree that doing it so that you end up with basically 2 disparate > groups is bad. it's not a meeting then. we may as well just do things by mail > if people have to "read the minutes later and then respond". you end up with > an > email-like back and forth between meeting groups. > > i say 1 time, and you make it, or you don't. if you care you make the time > (stay up very late or get up early and sacrifice sleep). of course people have > other things too in their lives, but this will just be dysfunctional if we end > up dividing meeting groups up. and this was a good point. pick one time when > most can make it with some effort. > > the previous 15:00 UTC slot seems to be about as good as it gets i think. >
I think 12 hrs apart is likely the wrong option, if you divide the world into approximately 3 time areas based loosely on working hours: Europe, US and Asia. 2 of the 3 will be able to make 1 meeting easily while the other would make the second. If the meetings had an 8 hr offset like I think the 2 most suggested times were, then it would be easy for 2 out of 3 timezones to get to one meeting and another 2 out of 3 to go to the second and there would be plenty of ovarlap between the 2 meetings >> Greetings, >> bu5hm4n >> >> On 05/14/2018 06:12 PM, Stephen Houston wrote: >>> As Mike suggested and I've been saying... the meetings need to be exactly >>> 12 hours apart, not 8 hours. So if Tuesday was UTC+8, Thursday would be >>> UTC+20... then the next Tuesday UTC+20 and the next Thursday UTC+8, etc... >>> >>> On Mon, May 14, 2018, 9:42 AM Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> wrote: >>> >>>> Okay, then lets say that we meet at the first full week and every third >>>> full week, always on Tuesday and Thursday. >>>> On the first week Tuesday is at UTC + 8 and Thursday at UTC + 16. >>>> In the third week Tuesday is at UTC + 16 and Thursday at UTC + 8. >>>> (This month however is a exception and we start this scheudule first >>>> fully in June.) >>>> >>>> Meetings are captured with a IRC logger. >>>> A few people can write the meeting minutes into http://collabedit.com. >>>> >>>> After the meetings the log is uploaded to the wiki same as the contents >>>> that have been captured in collabedit document. >>>> After that the wiki link can be sent to the mailinglists as reminder of >>>> what happened. >>>> >>>> How does that sound to you? >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> bu5hm4n >>>> >>>> >>>> On 05/11/2018 03:39 PM, Mike Blumenkrantz wrote: >>>>> This is actually similar to how many projects organize their meetings. >>>>> Having two separate meetings at "opposite" times allows everyone to have >>>> a >>>>> choice of meetings to attend with at least one of the times being optimal >>>>> for any given location. Using proper recording methods, everyone is then >>>>> able to see what happened at each meeting. In the meeting procedures page >>>>> (which should exist if it doesn't already), it should be documented that >>>>> the meeting notes should be sent to all related channels/lists after each >>>>> meeting to promote community involvement. >>>>> >>>>> I think that if everyone is okay with at least one of these times then >>>> this >>>>> is fine, though it should be noted that this time schedule makes it >>>> awkward >>>>> for any particular region to attend both meetings; traditionally the time >>>>> rotates exactly 12 hours so that at least one timezone is capable of >>>>> attending every meeting. >>>>> >>>>> The only adjustment I would make is that the meetings should be moved to >>>>> weekly in this case. If the meeting times rotate and are set for every >>>> two >>>>> weeks, this means that each group meets only once a month--hardly as >>>> useful. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:08 PM Stephen Houston <smhousto...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm well aware the other time slot allows for North Americans but it >>>> will >>>>>> then cut out anyone else. That's the point I was making - there is >>>> going >>>>>> to be little crossover. between the two groups of people meeting - and I >>>>>> don't think that is a good thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 2:06 PM Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 10 May 2018 14:55:07 +0000 Stephen Houston < >>>>>> smhousto...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> said: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This was the best time you could come up with for the meetings? 4-6AM >>>>>>> EST, >>>>>>>> 3-5AM CDT, 2-4AM MST, and 1-3AM PDT? That pretty much means that no >>>>>>> North >>>>>>>> Americans are going to be present at all... at least with the time we >>>>>>> were >>>>>>>> using for the meetings previously, it is reasonable enough for North >>>>>>>> Americans, Europeans, and Asians to all attend whether it be 8AM on >>>> the >>>>>>>> west coast of US or 11PM for like indefini in Japan... sure that is >>>>>>> easier >>>>>>>> for US... but then you just flip that time for the second meeting and >>>>>> its >>>>>>>> still reasonable enough for all to attend but easier for indefini in >>>>>>>> Japan. This is what I was expecting. Not a time that is basically >>>>>> going >>>>>>>> to mean: US gets to meet the first meeting of the month with eachother >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> then Eastern European/Asians get to meet with eachother the second >>>>>>> meeting >>>>>>>> of the month and there is no crossover (minus Western Europeans that >>>>>> can >>>>>>>> make both). I foresee that as being bad and not really working out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ummm you need to look at the other time slot too. i don't think we're >>>>>>> going to >>>>>>> do 2hrs each... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.worldtimebuddy.com/?pl=1&lid=100,8,5,1850147&h=100 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> so one is 1am/4am PDT/EDT an the other is 9am/12pm PDT/EDT. (CDT being >>>> in >>>>>>> between). and note on the other end with Japan (and Korea etc.) time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> :) so they keep flipping between 2 times to try and let everyone attend >>>>>> at >>>>>>> least once a month. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 3:58 AM Marcel Hollerbach <m...@bu5hm4n.de> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 05/10/2018 09:22 AM, Simon Lees wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10/05/18 13:20, Carsten Haitzler wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 09 May 2018 17:17:14 +0000 Mike Blumenkrantz >>>>>>>>>>> <michael.blumenkra...@gmail.com> said: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> While I can see some summarization of meeting items on the >>>>>>> relatively >>>>>>>>>>>> obscure https://phab.enlightenment.org/V33, which is >>>>>> inaccessible >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> anyone >>>>>>>>>>>> who has not been avidly following the mailing list archives--ie. >>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>> never >>>>>>>>>>>> be visible to any new community members--this is not quite the >>>>>>> same as >>>>>>>>>>>> recording the minutes of a meeting. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> see the ticket that this was all about. it's there in the ticket >>>>>>> itself >>>>>>>>> in the >>>>>>>>>>> body. that is where the conversation was happening so it's >>>>>>> summarized >>>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> https://phab.enlightenment.org/T6740 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> i don't see why etherpad is needed. we have plenty of tools on >>>>>> phab >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>>>>> no one disagreed with a wiki page. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> you were talking as if people need to have it explained to them >>>>>> what >>>>>>>>> minutes >>>>>>>>>>> are: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Typically for meetings where items of substance are discussed, >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> minutes >>>>>>>>>>> will be recorded for posterity: >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutes"; >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> marcel already said: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "But i agree in general that there should be a wiki page for >>>>>>> monitoring >>>>>>>>>>> contents of the meetings and some them up." >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ... so again. i see no reason why minutes will not be taken and >>>>>>>>> recorded. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What I would like to see and I think what Mike is getting at is a >>>>>>> wiki >>>>>>>>>> page either on the main wiki or somewhere on phab, which atleast >>>>>>> lists >>>>>>>>>> all the links to the meeting summaries rather then just having >>>>>>> obscure >>>>>>>>>> phab links to them. Even better would be if all the summaries were >>>>>>> also >>>>>>>>>> just in one page so you didn't have to click links to follow the >>>>>>>>>> previous meetings. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yep, thats what i want to do on this page and the linked pages >>>>>>>>> https://phab.enlightenment.org/w/meetings/ :). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>>>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" >>>> -------------- >>>>>>> Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >>> _______________________________________________ >>> enlightenment-devel mailing list >>> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > > -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
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