To summarise our discussion on IRC last night on this topic there was a general agreement that we can get Elementary to match the FreeDesktop.org standard for icon naming, allow the user to choose which icon theme to use and also remove the therefore redundant lookup order system. (we will not be including app icons in this work)
My next steps to make this happen will be: 1) Rework elm icon naming to be FDO compliant 2) Add configuration option to elm for users to choose the icon set to use (i.e. elm and any fdo iconsets installed) 3) Deprecate all lookup_order APIs and phase out appropriately this functionality so all elm apps become consistent In addition to having this all in place for efl 1.18 we need to complete the following as well: a) Complete the elm icon set so we can leave it as the default (faster and works if no other themes/icons installed If it's not possible to build or import a complete icon set for the release then we may need to re-look at whether the elm icon theme is a sensible default. Once this work is complete it seems sensible to also complete the following to make an overall top notch user experience: b) Later update enlightenment to set this option (and respect it?) so we have a consisteme E + efl apps experience c) If we can package the completed elm icon theme as an FDO icon theme then we can have other apps fit with our icons too :) I'll start work on the 1 - 3 of making this in for the next EFL so we can move forward on a smoother user experience for Elementary based apps - please let me know if there is anything in here that does not seem sensible or does not match the agreement we came to in our IRC chats. Thanks all for your input and enthusiasm on this subject :) Andy On Wed, 17 Feb 2016 at 01:14 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> wrote: > On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 19:07:44 +0100 Davide Andreoli <d...@gurumeditation.it > > > said: > > > 2016-02-16 14:09 GMT+01:00 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com>: > > > > > On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 10:07:14 +0000 Andrew Williams < > a...@andywilliams.me> > > > said: > > > > > > > Apologies but I disagree with this last email. > > > > >From the elementary docs (and Tizen too...) > > > > - "freedesktop.org defines the standard icon names such as "home", > > > > "network", etc." > > > > - "The *name* given as a parameter is one of these "keys", and is > used to > > > > look in the freedesktop.org paths and elementary theme." > > > > > > > > So it's clear that the intent is to mimic fdo icons in some way and > will > > > > support their naming lookups. > > > > The top of the page does list a short number of icon names that elm > > > > supports but it is incomplete / out of date. > > > > > > > > My question is why would we not go with a standard naming convention? > > > It's > > > > been in place for 10 years and pretty much everyone else uses it. > > > > If we can use FDO naming then other environment's icon sets will > work for > > > > us too - bonus no? > > > > > > > > If we do the "one that works everywhere" in isolation we will back > > > > ourselves into a not-fdo-compliant place which will cause additional > work > > > > later. Given that it's been years and we don't have a nearly complete > > > icon > > > > set (judging by application requirements, not FDO) then I think we > need > > > to > > > > be a little more realistic about te need to be compliant. > > > > > > i said nothing about having a different naming convention - i simply > said > > > make > > > the default theme complete. i dont much care what the names are. make > it > > > usefully complete. > > > > > > > ok, at least seems we all agree that we need a full icon theme in elm :) > > voila. ALL i said is that elm needs to have this theme in place (full - > minus > actual app icons - we dont need those) FIRST. consider being able to > override > it by looking at xdg/fdo icon theme instead of elm theme AFTER elm has a > full > one first :) solve the "it will work EVERYWHERE" code path first. :) > > > I can take care of this work in this release cycle, but we need to agree > the > > style of icons we want. > > reality is eventually they'll get redrawn. :) it just will take time. > > > I can easly import the work done by wfx at https://github.com/wfx/eicons > in > > the default elm theme, also using fdo names. > > those are a great start > > > Do we like those icons? are we sure we want all the icons to be bluish? > > usually I like the bluish version when they are small (like in menus), > but > > I'm > > not sure they looks good when used bigger (like in toolbar). > > for now, this will do. :) > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > On Tue, 16 Feb 2016 at 02:14 Carsten Haitzler <ras...@rasterman.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 12:22:21 +0100 marcel-hollerb...@t-online.de > said: > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 06:28:45PM +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, 15 Feb 2016 07:24:55 +0100 > marcel-hollerb...@t-online.de > > > said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 11:45:59AM +0900, Carsten Haitzler > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 11 Feb 2016 15:50:34 +0000 Andrew Williams > > > > > > > > > <a...@andywilliams.me> said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we pick this up again please? if neither 1) nor 2) > are > > > > > likely to > > > > > > > > > > happen then I feel the requirement to add 3) so that > each app > > > > > can add > > > > > > > > > > 1 line to do fdo_elementary lookups for the whole app. > > > > > > > > > > I'm now looking at menus that are a mix of icons > because, as > > > far > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > > > can tell, there's no API for setting the lookup order for > > > > > menu_item > > > > > > > > > > icons. Ether way this feels like it's really > > > anti-new-developers > > > > > - we > > > > > > > > > > don't have a complete icon set and I think we need to > deal > > > with > > > > > that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either 2) or 3) are changes that I feel have become > > > essential if > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > can't get 1) resolved in the next EFL release or two... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we need 1) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this is because on things like tizen there will be ZERO FDO > > > icon > > > > > sets. > > > > > > > > > ever. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I dont know if this is the right way to go, for example > numix has > > > > > 20000 > > > > > > > > files, do you really want to import that abount of icons > into a > > > > > theme? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that's irrelevant. there will be systems with zero fdo icon > themes > > > - > > > > > in fact > > > > > > > its the MAJOR os shipping more instances of efl than all other > > > distros > > > > > > > combined. tizen has shipped millions of devices now. the > majority > > > case > > > > > > > doesnt have an fdo theme. then there is no choice. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never said only use fdo themes, my idea is to let the user > decided > > > a > > > > > > fdo theme or the icon theme in the elm-theme. if there is no fdo > > > theme > > > > > > we have to fallback on the elm-theme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > just because numix has 20000 files does not mean we need that > many > > > in > > > > > an elm > > > > > > > theme - we NEED only a single icon per type. we don't need 10 > > > copies > > > > > (one > > > > > > > per size). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What about adding a config option to elementary where you can > > > > > > > > choose a icon theme installed on your system or use the > default > > > one > > > > > from > > > > > > > > the theme. If you choose the default theme, elm_icon will > use the > > > > > theme > > > > > > > > lookup if you have choosen a fdo icon set elm_icon is using > the > > > fdo > > > > > > > > lookup. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consistency. then its not going to be consistent and follow the > > > theme > > > > > look. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we should give the decision default or fdo lookup > into > > > the > > > > > hand > > > > > > > > of the user, since its their style-decition. > > > > > > > > And the elementary config looks like a good place to add > > > > > > > > them, since all elm apps will look the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > atm FIRST is to ensure that there is an icon in the elm theme > > > FIRST. so > > > > > > > there is always one provided regardless of fdo themes. once we > have > > > > > that - > > > > > > > then we can consider something else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it should be the other way arround, the default theme has > > > > > > missing icons and wrong names. > > > > > > > > > > what "wrong names"? it has icon names of its own. these are not > even > > > > > pretending > > > > > to follow any fdo standard. so how can they be wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > We can also keep the look consistent if we have a central setted > > > > > > icon-theme, since we dont do fallback across different theme. > > > > > > > > > > > > > fdo themes have some major drawbacks vs edje: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. can't do animation > > > > > > > 2. can't re-use imagery from other parts of the theme and make > > > icons > > > > > that > > > > > > > are "composed" of various elements put together like many > icons are > > > > > > > 3. can't do lossy compression for high-res icons with alpha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thats why I would like to give the possibility "default" (the > icons > > > > > > shiped with the theme) or a fdo icon set. I guess most people > like to > > > > > > have a fdo theme instead of the default icon theme. If someone > wants > > > to > > > > > > have icons with animations etc. he can put these in a elm-theme > and > > > use > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > do the one that works everywhere first. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any strong feelings on how we deal with the current > state of > > > > > play? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 30 Aug 2015 at 10:39 Andrew Williams < > > > > > a...@andywilliams.me> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with this, I can't ship any large featured app > > > using > > > > > elm > > > > > > > > > > > icons at this time, I have to use an fdo lookup. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If elm were a complete icon theme (including all E, > efm and > > > > > media > > > > > > > > > > > player etc icons) the current ordering makes sense - > but > > > not > > > > > until > > > > > > > > > > > then. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore I propose for efl 1.16 we need either: > > > > > > > > > > > 1) import a complete icon theme that works; or > > > > > > > > > > > 2) change the lookup order so efl apps don't look a > mess by > > > > > default. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And possibly in either case: > > > > > > > > > > > 3) add an elm api to set strategy for the whole app > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Primarily I want an elm app to be consistent in itself > but > > > > > overall > > > > > > > > > > > it should be consistent with E or the desktop it's > running > > > > > within. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 11 Aug 2015 15:39 Stephen Houston < > > > > > smhousto...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> At any rate, Raster's reasoning is only good if the > theme > > > > > provides > > > > > > > > > > >> a complete icon set... so for that to make sense right > > > now, > > > > > someone > > > > > > > > > > >> needs to finish the elm theme icon set or as Davide > said > > > just > > > > > > > > > > >> import an already complete icon set into the elm > theme. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Davide Andreoli > > > > > > > > > > >> <d...@gurumeditation.it> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > 2015-08-11 2:14 GMT+02:00 Carsten Haitzler > > > > > > > > > > >> > <ras...@rasterman.com>: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Mon, 10 Aug 2015 09:53:08 -0500 Stephen > Houston < > > > > > > > > > > >> > smhousto...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > said: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > I'm sure this has been discussed before but I > feel > > > the > > > > > need > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > to > > > > > > > > > > >> bring it > > > > > > > > > > >> > > up > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > again. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > It is super annoying that when requesting a > standard > > > > > icon, > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > you will > > > > > > > > > > >> > > always > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > get the blue icon from Elementary first if it > > > exists, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > then it > > > > > > > > > > >> falls > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > back on the icon theme. I feel like this > should be > > > > > exactly > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > the > > > > > > > > > > >> > opposite. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Check the icon theme first and fallback on > > > Elementary's > > > > > blue > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > icons > > > > > > > > > > >> if > > > > > > > > > > >> > the > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > user's icon theme doesn't have the requested > > > standard > > > > > icon. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > For instance: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > http://www.enlightenment.org/ss/e-55c4c1af28ccf5.97362633.jpg > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > The blue slideshow icon is out of place here. > It > > > > > should go > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > with the > > > > > > > > > > >> > icon > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > theme first instead of finding that icon in > > > Elementary. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > not changing. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > 1. breaks default behavior of an icon object. > since > > > icons > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > > >> > > from > > > > > > > > > > >> theme > > > > > > > > > > >> > > an > > > > > > > > > > >> > > app dev can customize by doing a theme overlay and > > > thus > > > > > expect > > > > > > > > > > >> > > his > > > > > > > > > > >> icons > > > > > > > > > > >> > to > > > > > > > > > > >> > > appear - but if default behavior changes then his > app > > > > > loses HIS > > > > > > > > > > >> > > icons. > > > > > > > > > > >> > this > > > > > > > > > > >> > > is a break. no. not changing. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > I quite disagree here, but we need to split in two > > > different > > > > > > > > > > >> > scenario: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > A: the developer want to provide an icon that will > never > > > > > change > > > > > > > > > > >> (regardless > > > > > > > > > > >> > of the user elm theme in use). This is usually > wrong, > > > > > unless you > > > > > > > > > > >> > are providing a full theme overlay inside your app > (my > > > media > > > > > > > > > > >> > center is > > > > > > > > > > >> an > > > > > > > > > > >> > example), otherwise your icon will looks wrong on > other > > > elm > > > > > > > > > > >> > themes that the user may be using. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > B: the developer want to make a themable app that > will > > > > > always > > > > > > > > > > >> > looks good for every elm theme. This is the "normal" > > > > > behavior of > > > > > > > > > > >> > desktop > > > > > > > > > > >> applications, > > > > > > > > > > >> > and at the moment is quite impossible to aquire > using > > > elm. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > I think both scenario can be done using elm: the > > > sceanrio B > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > >> > coded > > > > > > > > > > >> using > > > > > > > > > > >> > elm_icon_standard_set(ic, "a-fdo-standard-name") > > > > > > > > > > >> > While the scenario A should be coded a little > different: > > > > > the dev > > > > > > > > > > >> > can set the icon > > > > > > > > > > >> > using elm_icon_file_set(ic, theme_file, > "icon_name") or > > > also > > > > > > > > > > >> > using standard_set > > > > > > > > > > >> > but not using fdo names, fe: > elm_icon_standard_set(ic, > > > > > > > > > > >> > "my_custom_icon_name") > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > So I think there are no breackage involved, unless > an > > > app is > > > > > > > > > > >> > using > > > > > > > > > > >> standard > > > > > > > > > > >> > fdo name while wanted only the custom icon to be > > > displayed. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > 2. the point is to have icons match the THEME... > not > > > some > > > > > fdo > > > > > > > > > > >> > > icon > > > > > > > > > > >> theme. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > icons > > > > > > > > > > >> > > will almost always look out of place in a theme > being > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > > >> > style/color > > > > > > > > > > >> > > etc. etc. and so people are eternally hunting for > a > > > > > "matching > > > > > > > > > > >> > > icon > > > > > > > > > > >> theme" > > > > > > > > > > >> > > separately to their theme. the whole POINT of an > edj > > > file > > > > > is to > > > > > > > > > > >> > > have a single > > > > > > > > > > >> > > unified theme with everything - widgets and wm and > > > icons > > > > > etc. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > your > > > > > > > > > > >> point > > > > > > > > > > >> > > violates this entire concept. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > -- > > > > > > > > > > >> > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, > therefore I > > > am" > > > > > > > > > > >> -------------- > > > > > > > > > > >> > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) > > > ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > >> > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > >> > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > >> > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > >> > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into > Application > > > > > Performance > > > > > > > > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just > > > $35/Month > > > > > > > > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective > > > actions > > > > > now > > > > > > > > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. > Signup > > > Now! > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > > > -------------- > > > > > > > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application > > > > > Performance > > > > > > > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just > > > $35/Month > > > > > > > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective > > > actions now > > > > > > > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup > > > Now! > > > > > > > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application > > > > > Performance > > > > > > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just > $35/Month > > > > > > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective > actions > > > now > > > > > > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup > Now! > > > > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > > > -------------- > > > > > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application > > > Performance > > > > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > > > > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions > now > > > > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > > > -------------- > > > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application > Performance > > > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > > > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > > > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application > Performance > > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" > -------------- > > > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > > _______________________________________________ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > > > -- > ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- > The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance > APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month > Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now > Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! > http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151&iu=/4140 _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
