On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 23:28:53 +0000 Andrew Williams <a...@andywilliams.me> said:
> After chatting on IRC I think there is another approach. > The underlying principle is that we have 2 different viewpoints - that > which elm is FDo compliant - and that which it should be seperate. yup. i'm on the "elm has its own theme mechanics and thus this also applies to icons. it applies to wallpapers in e, and everything else" but there are peolpe who want elm to mimic their gtk/qt etc. apps and use those icons. so thus the option to turn fdo theme use on or off at the elm level. > If the elm icon theme were able to hint at which FDo theme it is > complatible with (if any) as mentioned earlier then we could do this: i dislike these things. it breaks the principle of themes being self-contained data bundles that just work without any data outside of them. > *) remove E's "icon theme for enlightenment" checkbox - we should always > assume you are configuring E yes. i agree. > *) update the "icon theme for applications" checkbox to also apply to efl > apps actually i would go for something simpler... just a single checkbox "apply to e/efl apps too". icon theme is selected and apply, ie to everything and all apps. including e. e/efl can go off on their own and use icons from their themes (as long as they exist- fall back to configured fdo theme if not found). if you dont like the theme + icons that match together, then that checkbox will turn on the "look in fdo first". isnt this simplest? is there really a need to configure e separately from elm/rest of efl here with icons? > *) when the user selects an FDo icon theme we iterate through all the elm > themes to see if any declare a match - and if so and the "icon theme for > applications" is set then we tell elm to use it's theme instead of the FDo > one. why do this? so complex? select icon theme... have a checkbox "apply to e/efl too". perhaps clicking/selecting any icon theme will set that checkbox to true assuming the user wants to see the effects immediately everywhere, e/fl included. they can then uncheck that if they don't like it. :) isn't this simplest? less code, fewer controls in the ui. > In this manner anyone wanting GTK or ELM specific icons could still run > their own configuration tool (elm_config will not know how to do the lookup > to affect other (i.e. GTK) apps when chosing a theme that happens to be > marked as matching an FDO theme. > > Of course that relies on the appropriate theme being installed as well, > which can be checked for. > > I think this accomplishes all the requirements with the addition of not > being any more complex for the user. I'm not really so sure we should have > seperate checkboxes for ELM and "GTK" as the non-elm applies to all other > apps, being an FDo spec that we are trying to comply with. Going with the > existing "icon theme for applications" to apply to all toolkits seems to > make sense. > > Would this work? > Andrew > > On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 at 18:11 Davide Andreoli <d...@gurumeditation.it> wrote: > > > 2016-08-27 17:52 GMT+02:00 Davide Andreoli <d...@gurumeditation.it>: > > > > > 2016-08-27 17:23 GMT+02:00 Andrew Williams <a...@andywilliams.me>: > > > > > >> I think the complexity is that Enlightenment looks at this all the other > > >> way around. > > >> I.e. Choose your theme - and do you want it to apply to apps as well? > > >> I'm tempted to go in and remove all the complexity and have it be just > > >> that > > >> (I.e. Ignore elm vs gtk as seperate values) then it would make more > > sense > > >> for elm to try and say what gtk theme matches. But at the moment (in E) > > >> the > > >> user could have specified that this is not the chosen behaviour but elm > > >> won't know that. > > >> > > >> My aim in all of this is to provide a consistent experience but maybe > > >> others prefer the config options approach? > > >> > > > > > > I don't want/need a consistent experience (between ELM and GTK). I just > > > want > > > gtk to looks beautiful with it's Mint-X icons and elm to look beautiful > > > (and be fast) > > > with the icons embedded in theme. I don't neither use a gtk theme that > > > match the > > > elm one, on my system gtk apps are light and elm are dark, I like this > > > separation. > > > > > > Please make a system that permit this type of configuration. Don't forget > > > the > > > fundamental E principle: let the user choose ! > > > > > > > After some more thinking about the E config dialog I ended up that > > list+checks > > are the wrong choice, if we want to give the user the "power to choose" we > > need > > 3 independent lists, so that user can choose the icons for ELM, the icons > > for GTK > > and the icons for E itself. This could be made with 2 new tabs, so that we > > end up > > with 3 tabs for icons: "ELM icons", "GTK icons", "E icons". > > ...or maybe on a single page with just 3 combobox. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >> Andrew > > >> On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 at 15:00, Stephen Houston <smhousto...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Would it not be simpler for Edje theme to provide a data in the elm > > >> config > > >> > stating the matching fdo icon theme and then just have a check box in > > >> the > > >> > Enlightenment dialog that says match elm theme? data.item: "matching" > > >> > "Enlightenment-X"; if use matching is checked, then elm uses its > > >> internal > > >> > icons and enlightenment uses specified date string. > > >> > > > >> > On Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 2:56 AM Davide Andreoli <d...@gurumeditation.it > > > > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > 2016-08-27 6:00 GMT+02:00 Simon Lees <sfl...@suse.de>: > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On 08/27/2016 11:46 AM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: > > >> > > > > On Fri, 26 Aug 2016 10:04:51 +0200 Davide Andreoli < > > >> > > > d...@gurumeditation.it> > > >> > > > > said: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> Hi all (Andrew in particular) > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> I really think we have 2 issue in the way we let the user > > >> configure > > >> > > the > > >> > > > fdo > > >> > > > >> icon theme for their system. > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> 1. In the E config we have a list of fdo themes and 2 checkbox: > > >> > > > >> * Enable for applications > > >> > > > >> * Enable for Enlightenment > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> The first one will set the theme for GTK and ELM, I really > > think > > >> we > > >> > > > need to > > >> > > > >> spit this in 2 different checks, one for ELM and one for > > non-efl > > >> > apps. > > >> > > > >> Without this separation there are useful configuration that are > > >> > really > > >> > > > hard > > >> > > > >> to make. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > that requires a new release of e... so for now tghis says "i'll > > >> tell > > >> > > > apps to > > >> > > > > use icon theme X - but app may or may not listen" > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > elm will choose to listen based on elm config values. :) > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> For example I use on my system the Mint-X theme for GTK app and > > >> the > > >> > > > default > > >> > > > >> for ELM, to make this configuration I need to: > > >> > > > >> * Open the E config and choose Mint-X (this also change ELM to > > >> use > > >> > > > Mint-X) > > >> > > > >> * Then open the ELM config and choose "Use elementary icons" > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > you have to change elm's config settings? is e messing with > > elm's > > >> > > config > > >> > > > here? > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > you shouldnt have to change elm's config settings here (unless e > > >> > > > offered all > > >> > > > > the config options - as opposed to a subset > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> After this every time I want to change the theme for gtk > > (maybe I > > >> > want > > >> > > > to > > >> > > > >> try a new theme) I need to go again in the ELM config and > > change > > >> it > > >> > > > back. > > >> > > > >> So we really need a new checkbox "Enable for ELM" that, if > > >> checked > > >> > > will > > >> > > > set > > >> > > > >> the fdo theme in the elm config, while if not checked will > > reset > > >> elm > > >> > > to > > >> > > > use > > >> > > > >> the icons included in the theme. > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> 2. The Enlightenment-X fdo theme that we are providing is only > > >> meant > > >> > > to > > >> > > > be > > >> > > > >> used with non-efl applications, using it with elm is an > > >> incredibly > > >> > > > waste of > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > agreed. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> resource as they are exactly the same icons provided in the elm > > >> > theme > > >> > > > (full > > >> > > > >> fdo lookup instead of just pick from the edj file). > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > correct. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> We really need to automatically set elm to use internal icons > > >> when > > >> > the > > >> > > > user > > >> > > > >> select the Enlightenment-X theme in both the E config dialog > > and > > >> the > > >> > > ELM > > >> > > > >> one. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > well enlightenment seemingly has to do this... then. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > To do this properly the info about the corresponding icon theme > > >> needs > > >> > to > > >> > > > be embedded in the edj file and read out, because for example I > > >> might > > >> > > > create a Elementary theme called "Bob" and then create the "Bob-X" > > >> icon > > >> > > > theme for non elementary apps. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > indeed, you are right, I did not thought about this scenario. > > >> > > So the fast path I described (ELM_CONFIG_ICON_THEME_ELEMENTARY= > > >> > > "Enlightenment-X") > > >> > > will not work. > > >> > > And indeed a solution would be to add this information in the elm > > edje > > >> > > theme, something > > >> > > like matching_icon_theme="Enlightenment-X". Then fix elm to always > > >> use > > >> > > internal icons > > >> > > if the config match the edje provided string. > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > I more realistic scenario is that > > >> > > > openSUSE ships by default with a recolored version of the default > > >> theme > > >> > > > and I was going to look at also recoloring Enlightenment-X to > > match > > >> > that > > >> > > > theme and calling it slightly different name. All my themes will > > >> > > > eventually have there own icon set and matching FDO icon set (that > > >> or > > >> > > > i'll pick someone else's that I like). So I don't think we should > > >> > > > explicitly hard code a solution just for the default theme and > > >> > > > Enlightenment-X but if we do something it should support all > > themes. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > >> As for the implementation of this one: maybe is enough to > > change > > >> the > > >> > > > >> ELM_CONFIG_ICON_THEME_ELEMENTARY define to "Enlightenment-X" ? > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> If no one have objections I would ask Andrew to implement/fix > > >> this 2 > > >> > > > issues > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> Thanks > > >> > > > >> davemds > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > -- > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Simon Lees (Simotek) > > http://simotek.net > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Emergency Update Team > > keybase.io/simotek > > >> > > > SUSE Linux Adeliade Australia, UTC+9:30 > > >> > > > GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> > > > ------------------ > > >> > > > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >> > > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > >> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> ------------------ > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > >> > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >> > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > >> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> ------------------ > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >> > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------ > > >> ------------------ > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> enlightenment-devel mailing list > > >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > > enlightenment-devel mailing list > > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel > -- ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -------------- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler) ras...@rasterman.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
