On Sun, Jul 9, 2017 at 12:43 AM, Al Poole <nets...@gmail.com> wrote: > A lot of that makes sense. Definitely "wow" factor is what attracted me to > Enlightenment. I remember back in 05 when e16.999 went public just how > amazing it was and looked, even now it remains impressive. > > A forum is a good idea.
with mailing list, phab and irc as the current way to ask questions, file bugs or talk about development, is there sufficiently manpower to ask more questions in a forum ? i don't think so. Vincent > Like a bridge between phab and the mailing list. > Also it might not be so intimidating? Good for helping people with common > issues. Maintaining pages also so people realise the project is active, > even if there's a while between releases. > > I like the idea of some sort of "flagship" product/distribution. My > thoughts are an image for a SoC like the rpi3 with all the cool stuff > included and "just works". Also it shows how efficient EFL and E can be. > With my own limited experience on the pi3, it's more responsive than any of > the other traditional desktops, and it's prettier too. > > A blogosphere might be nice too...somewhere to rant, rather than digging a > hole in the garden to shout down??? > > On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Andrew Williams <a...@andywilliams.me> > wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Thanks everyone who participated in the community discussion at the EDD - >> it was really helpful to get an idea of what we're all working toward. >> Partly as a record for us and partly to open discussion for those who could >> not make it here are my notes of the conversation. >> >> Apologies that this is a long email - I wanted to maintain much of my note >> so as not to add too much interpretation. for the impatient here is the >> TL;DR: >> >> The EFL community is mostly focused on the great libraries, desktop >> application and core utilities that can be built alongside them. We want to >> engage a lot of developers to either help or build on our stuff. There are >> a lot of ways to start work in that direction in addition to writing great >> code. P.S. As a community we are not a distribution and we are not writing >> an entire desktop system :) >> >> --- >> >> We started with a discussion of what Enlightenment is to us :) >> >> Enlightenment started as a window manager, we did a lot of work to refactor >> out cod and got great libs - these can now be used to support other apps >> - enlightenment is one app (the main one) that uses them. >> >> We build lots of apps - but we're not trying to do a desktops >> - bodhi is a desktop, but that is a different group with different aims >> >> Summary being: we write cool stuff that underpins lots of apps - a slick >> set of libraries that we build on and hope that others will too >> >> --- >> >> So from here how do we engage more people? >> >> Avoid the challenges of packaging everything with an app finder rather than >> doing the distribution >> >> Have a central developer setup (like Edi) making it really easy to build >> something >> - a core part of this would be to make it easy to patch / improve / >> contribute >> >> Apps exist that *we* don't know about >> >> EFL is the main thing that enables all of this, but that's not a community >> aim >> - toolkit is driven a lot by external factors that are not application >> developers >> >> Lots of development aid tools coming out of Samsung as they are needed to >> build well >> >> Summary: we could engage more developers through better app distribution >> and tooling but it's outside of scope for the EFL community >> >> --- >> >> So we then discussed what the community is: >> >> Transparency of the community >> - how can we help people to evaluate if actions or additions are in our >> desired direction >> >> Missing a roadmap for the years ahead - what do we want to achieve? >> - seamless look, feel, config - apps working great together etc >> >> E to have the core things for a great desktop >> - file manager, looking etc >> - managing screens blah blah >> - not with a browser, email etc - but we are building it anyway >> >> Not just a desktop environment - not just PCs and traditional setup >> - tablet hybrid etc >> - would need to adjust things like UI / layout etc according to device >> >> We could set up a tablet (or hybrid) for testing >> - cross compiling etc. >> - not really there as a supported platform just now >> * needs a virtual keyboard >> >> * helping developers adapt the apps to platform requirements >> - might need new APIs (device discovery etc) >> >> Elm profiles should be reviewed, naming fixed, but basically used to >> determine environment >> ? perhaps adding TV / wearable etc >> * Can applications advertise which modes it plays well with? >> - behaviour would be per-window but config is currently not >> >> limited by the opinion of those who create the hardware >> >> Summary: As a community we want to enable great apps to work consistently >> on a wide variety of platforms (device and modality) but we currently don't >> have a roadmap of how to get there. Additional support would be needed esp. >> in the higher level APIs to do this (lots of the mobile stuff, for example, >> closed source within Samsung) >> >> --- >> >> So what can we do to push forward?: >> >> Deliver to users / dev the "holy crap" moments that draw people in >> - killer features / apps >> >> Provide more help / support to community users / devs >> >> ** Extract useful info from the develop git and publish responsibilities >> and contact info to the website >> >> * have a place to publish and download approved EFL apps (bypass >> distributions) >> - on top of a solid operating system ;) >> (This is very similar to what EFLer wants to do, but needs >> release/packages - or should it be containers) >> >> * Blog posts / app evangelism >> - more out to the community to get further ways in >> >> ** Add slack to community page >> - see if people appear before working on more stuff... >> * compare user numbers with the IRC / existing devs >> * enable docuwiki plugin on the website to chat in >> >> Should we add a forum? (bodhi one is good) - but would it support our >> group? >> >> Folk are not keen for more private slack channels >> - providing room per app / topic category would perhaps mimic the forum >> benefits >> - could have topics mirrored into the main channel >> >> Can we solve the fragmentation between mailing list and phab? >> - chats about issues etc across many platforms >> >> * See if there is interest in getting the Facebook pages back up / >> maintained? >> >> * Find a way to have commercial support for the community >> >> EFL interfaces for things that are not C >> - it makes application development slow >> - only python is maintained and it's partial right now >> - C++, NodeJS, Lua coming as part of eo - a PoC Python replacement and C# >> is in the works >> - raster for lua/Node as app language >> * we should decide what bindings we will support development in (enabled >> by default) >> - i.e. Edi support etc >> ? is Rust an interesting language >> >> Summary: There is actually a lot of stuff we could do to move forward with >> just now - better visibility of what we're doing on the website for a >> start. From there start to clarify what we will support as core and what >> will come with Eo interfaces in the future. How could we better support >> developers using EFL? >> >> --- >> >> And lastly how would we get more E users? >> >> EFL and E should get packaged for some systems - that is the entry point >> for many >> >> - "extra" could be a module in E or shipped with EFL >> - whilst playing nice with system installer (don't conflict) >> >> Could be containers / images not app folders bundles (looking for >> simplicity like OS X) >> >> --- >> >> Please let me know if you think I have missed anything there. I will start >> to progress some of those topics but I would be keen to see if anyone else >> wants to pick up certain things? Whilst a lot of people on the list are >> primarily devs I know we have a lot of other great experience that we >> should draw on to grow this exciting community! >> >> Thanks, >> Andy >> -- >> http://andywilliams.me >> http://ajwillia.ms >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------ >> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most >> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot >> _______________________________________________ >> enlightenment-devel mailing list >> enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot > _______________________________________________ > enlightenment-devel mailing list > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
