Don,
Excellent synopsis. Prior to the current Director, Stale was
offered the position at Arizona State.
Bob
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 3, 2009, at 1:20 PM, DON BERTOLETTE <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Bob-
> Yes Dr. David Stahle is well-received in his field, as are Drs.
> Henry Grissino-Meyer and Tom Swetnam, albeit from a more western
> location. I'm reminded of a symposium put on featuring Tom Swetnam
> as he explained the role of Flagstaff/Arizona in Dendrochronology.
> It went something like this:
>
> Andrew Ellicott Douglass, an astronomer, single-handedly created
> thescience of dendrochronology. Douglas began working at the
> LowellAstronomical Observatory in Flagstaff, Arizona in 1894. He was
> fascinatedwith sunspots and believed that they influenced the
> weather on Earth.
>
> While hiking through forests around Flagstaff, he noticed similar
> ringpatterns on many of the freshly cut stumps. After "reading" and
> comparingthese stumps, he speculated that these rings were a
> detailed record of theweather conditions of the past.
>
> Douglass began to hunt for samples of older and older trees. He
> foundthat where the life spans of the trees overlapped, they shared
> the same ringpatterns. Over the next twenty-five years, by carefully
> studying thousandsof wood samples, he was able to assemble two long
> sequences. One was acontinuous ring record starting in the present
> and extending back nearly eight hundred years. The second was based
> on timber found in ancient Indian settlements. This sequences ran
> for 585 years, but he didn't know which years!
>
> In 1929, while working with archaeologists excavating the ancient
> PuebloBonito ruin in Chaco Canyon, he found the missinglinks. The
> wood in the pueblos spanned the missing years and connected histwo
> chronologies into a continuous sequence spanning 1,400 years. This
> wasthe first master dendrochronology. A master dendrochronology is
> created by comparing the growth rings of many trees, then creating a
> growth profile covering their life span over many centuries.
>
> Douglass now had a record of the climate reaching thirteen hundred
> yearsinto the past, and was able to accurately cross-date wood
> samples from someforty prehistoric Indian sites.
> [http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/html/e1-search-tr2.html]
>
> This is where another Southwesterner came into play. Emil Haury, an
> imminent archeologist of the Southwestern cultures, had uncovered
> some Anastazi sites whose ceiling timbers were "from another
> time"...his consultation with Douglas brought about precision in
> assigning times to archeological events, heretofore unknown in his
> field...they together were able to date the construction of the
> archeological structure within a couple of years, and the story went
> something like this:
>
> Haury, the first person to learn the Douglass method of dating,
> spent the following year processing the huge backlog of specimens
> Douglass had accumulated. In the spring of 1930 he also assisted
> Douglass in teaching the first course on tree-ring dating at the
> University of Arizona. Haury played a critical role in the
> subsequent development of dendrochronology. He set up a tree-ring
> laboratory at Gila Pueblo and in his landmark excavation of the
> Canyon Creek ruin provided the first significant contribution to
> the theory of archaeological tree-ring dating theory, demonstrated
> the importance of sampling beams from all parts of a site, and
> pointed out the value of beams as artifacts for inferring past
> behavior. In 1937 Douglass, astronomer Edwin Francis Carpenter (1898-1963
> ), and Haury were co-founders of the Laboratory of Tree-Ring
> Research at the University of Arizona, with Douglass as its first
> director. [http://www.nap.edu/readingroom.php?book=biomems&page=ehaury.html]
>
> And that is as Paul Harvey was wont to say, "...the rest of the
> story".
>
> Ed-
> Still trying to keep the subject title consistent with thread!
> -Don
>
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:49:10 +0000
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [ENTS] Re: High elevation forest response to climate change
> and other factors
>
> Don, Mike,
>
> Our own Dr. David Stahle, Lord of the Rings, has confirmed many
> instances of climate impact observable in the tree rings. His work
> studying the El Nino oscillation cycle has been well received within
> the scientific community. Dave will be one of the presenters at the
> Forest Summit - Old Growth conference in October at Holyoke
> Community College. Drs. Lee Frelich, David Foster, Don Bragg will
> also present.
>
> Bob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "DON BERTOLETTE" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 10:49:52 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [ENTS] Re: High elevation forest response to climate change
> and other factors
>
> Mike-
> I don't pretend to know much about NIPF in Massachusetts.
>
> I don't think you have ever read me saying the phrase global
> warming. I know that to be a loaded concept that hasn't been
> universally accepted.
>
> But I do believe that the regions I've worked and lived in are
> experiencing climate change outside of the natural range of climate
> variation.
>
> Yes, actually there is tree ring documentation to that effect.
> Dendrochronology started with a man named Douglas at the Flagstaff
> Observatory (the one that discovered "canals" on Mars), and was
> furthered in partnership with early archeologist Emil Haury when
> they discovered missing tree ring segments in Anastazi roofing
> timbers...there are some really intereseting regional climate graphs
> that have been derived from dendrochronological research carried on
> at the University of Arizona at their Tree Ring Lab ('google' Tom
> Swetnum for a broad coverage of just about everything I've said).
>
> I do however have a fair handle on forestry in the Southwest US. I
> can send you any number of supporting documents regarding my
> statements below. I stand behind my statement that all five of those
> points are inter-related, not separated as they were in your reply.
> Deconstruction doesn't work that way.
>
> Regarding your comments on bio-fuels, you may be surprised that I've
> supported it, particularly in the Southwest, and with smaller more
> efficient operations. For much of the ponderosa pine forests,
> conditions (4 of 5 points below) have led to abundant smallwood that
> despite multiple efforts, no commercial operations can handle. More
> acres of controlled burning occur than should (difficult not to
> exceed air quality regulations), and running it as bio-fuel through
> an efficient energy generation plant was a solution being sought in
> Northern Arizona. Finding the balance between constant, consistent,
> regular source in the amounts appropriate for the energy generated
> was the key, that and being located centrally to the source. The
> small wood fuels are abundant and burgeoning.
> -Don
>
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [ENTS] Re: High elevation forest response to climate change
> and other factors
> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:41:24 -0400
>
> Don,
>
> How do you know that the current drought in the west is the worst
> since 600 AD? Tree ring data?
>
> I would say that unnatural fire suppression has led to invading
> white fir regeneration and above normal ponderosa pine regeneration
> as well as much of the bark beetle outbreaks. Blaming it all on
> global warming is bunk.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> On Behalf Of DON BERTOLETTE
> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:06 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [ENTS] RE: High elevation forest response to climate change
> and other factors
>
> Lee-
> Yes, these instances are almost always not a single cause issue...in
> the case of higher than normal mortality of old-growth ponderosa
> pine forests on the North Rim at Grand Canyon, it was a combination
> of:
> 1) altered natural fire regime,
> 2) invading white fir regeneration, competing with
> 3) above normal ponderosa pine regeneration,
> 4) 15 years of drought (not seen this long or serious since 600 AD),
> 4) causing moisture/nutrient stress on large old ponderosa pines.
> Here in Alaska, I was around when spruce bark beetle began a run
> that seemed stoppable at first, but in retrospect, could have only
> been stopped by a succession of two or three cold winters...we never
> got them and some 90% of Kenai Peninsula spruce (and significant
> interior populations) were wiped out.
> I have had several conversations with Southwestern academics who are
> beginning to sense the migration of species to more appropriate
> latitudes, elevations. It's apparent that just a few degrees annual
> change in temperature has a surprisingly significant effect on a
> whole array of ecosystem constituents.
> -Don
>
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:53:56 -0500
> > From: [email protected]
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [ENTS] Re: ENTS in the news
> >
> >
> > Bob, Don:
> >
> > Whitebark pine forests/woodlands are having a set complex set of
> > problems. White pine blister rust (an exotic disease), mountain pine
> > beetle (a native beetle that is in outbreak phase in many
> forests), and
> > changing climate all at once. This is affecting the relationship
> between
> > white bark pine and lodegepole pine as well, perhaps the beetle,
> blister
> > rust and droughts are helping the lodgepole to move into whitebark's
> > territory, while lower down the beetle is causing major mortality in
> > lodgepole and ponderosa pines. I am on the committees of three
> graduate
> > students who are studying whitebark pine and other high elevation
> > forests in the Rocky Mountains, and two of them will finish soon,
> so you
> > will see several papers on this topic be published in the next
> couple of
> > years.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> >
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > >
> > > Don,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As best as I remember from my travels last summer to Idaho, the
> > > white bark pine was having problems in parts of Wyoming. But, I
> mostly
> > > saw lodgepole pine and wasn't always conscious when there was a
> mix of
> > > the two species.
> > >
> > > I'll get up to altitudes of 11,000 to almost 11,500 feet going
> > > across some of the Colorado passes. In southern Colorado, the
> > > timberline is between 11,500 and 12,000 feet. So, I should see
> plenty
> > > of high elevation forests and will dutifully report on what I
> see. I
> > > remember from 3 years ago going across Wolf Creek Pass in the San
> > > Juans seeing lots of beetle damage to ponderosa pines. Pines I had
> > > seen in the mid-1980s were dead. It was a sad sight.
> > >
> > > BTW, I'll be tracking my emails on the trip with my IPhone. I
> broke
> > > down and bought one, and so far, I love it. Apple has really
> thought
> > > through the features. Most are intuitive and even though the
> monitor
> > > is small, I can still see it. You can expand the print in a
> simple way.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "DON BERTOLETTE" <[email protected]>
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 5:06:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: ENTS in the news
> > >
> > > Bob-
> > > In the west in general and surely in Colorado, the media I
> attend to
> > > describes the plight of the high elevation forests, particularly
> the
> > > pines, in (what our fellow forum member Steve Springer denies) at
> > > least a severe prolonged drought, and perhaps one of the signs of
> > > global climate change. Gradient analysis may not benefit much of
> the
> > > eastern forest, but for the western forests where a watershed may
> > > contain an entire elevational gradient, forests are differentially
> > > subject to moisture stress, and are showing higher mortality than
> > > would be found in the natural range of variation.
> > > If your travels take you into the higher elevations where
> whitebark
> > > pines are found, I'd be interested in a first hand account of
> their
> > > general health. The high elevation pines I've followed in the high
> > > Sierras (foxtail, bristlecone, whitebark, sugar, western white)
> are
> > > taking a hit, with potential catastrophy waiting with each
> monsoonal
> > > wave of lightning storms, due to increased downed and coarse
> woody debris.
> > >
> > > In two weeks, I'll be assisting a friend in nominating a Kenai
> Birch
> > > for the Alaska Register, and since the National Register doesn't
> list
> > > one, perhaps we'll be nominating a National champion!
> > > -Don
> > >
> > >
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 19:38:23 +0000
> > > From: [email protected]
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: [ENTS] Re: ENTS in the news
> > >
> > > Don,
> > >
> > > The day will come when AFs will be lauding the Pennsylvania and
> > > Alaska champion tree programs - and for good reason. Well,
> tomorrow,
> > > it is off to Colorado Monica and I go. I hope to report from the
> field
> > > as I go.
> > >
> > > Bob
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "DON BERTOLETTE" <[email protected]>
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 12:05:04 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
> Eastern
> > > Subject: [ENTS] ENTS in the news
> > >
> > > Fellow ENTS-
> > > Just received the current American Forests, and saving the best
> for
> > > last, they had a great article applauding Bob Van Pelt's (and ours
> > > too!) obsession with champion trees...it's a good read!
> > > -Don
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage
> limits.
> > > Check it out.
> > > <http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> ---
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. Check it out.
> > > <http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> >
> > </html
>
>
>
>
> Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it
> on your BlackBerry or iPhone.
>
>
>
>
> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. See how.
> >
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org
Send email to [email protected]
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en
To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
