Ed
Disturbance?????
The fire that the sale is trying to salvage 'nuked' whole Sections  
(square miles) of open park- like yellow-barked og ponderosa  
pines...the goshawk population needs familiar hunting 'structures',  
not arbitrary age classes...it's the 3-D spatial relationships the  
goshawks look for and gravitate to...
-don

Sent from Don's iPhone 3GS...

On Oct 23, 2009, at 7:02 PM, "Edward Frank" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Don,
>
> I am not a goshawk ecologist and can not with any good conscious  
> choose between one camp and the other.  It just strikes me that if  
> the goshawks are actively breeding and foraging in the forest as it  
> exists, then cutting down 80% of the trees in the area they have  
> chosen to live is not likely to make things better.  Certainly the  
> disturbance of the habitat will be a further detriment to their  
> population.
>
> Ed
>
> "Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a  
> monkey every now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of  
> preserving nature...I couldn't live with myself." - Professor Hubert  
> Farnsworth
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bertolette
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:51 PM
> Subject: [ENTS] Re: Kaibab Plateau, AZ
>
> Ed-
> I am on the road and relying on my iPhone which I am sure you  
> cosider a blessing, as it forces brevity on me...;-)
>
> If you'll read the two opposing camps (Cole Crocker-Bedford vs.  
> Richard Reid (?)) on goshawk habitat preference I think you'll find  
> it's not so much an issue of diameter class sizes per se, but the  
> forest structure and the way it impacts 'flyways'...a bunch of 1" to  
> 4.9" undergrowth would not be goshawks preferred ground cover for  
> preying on small animals. Where it gets more controversial is the  
> upper story crown structure spatial arrangement and I must recommend  
> Cole's paper/studies to you for a better understanding of forest/ 
> goshawk biological relationships.
> Don
>
> Sent from Don's iPhone 3GS...
>
> On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:15 PM, "Edward Frank" <[email protected]>  
> wrote:
>
>> People
>>
>> Perhaps I should elaborate more with some specifics:  The items in  
>> plain text are quotes from the
>> http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/projects/jacob-ryan/JR_EA_Revision.pdf  
>> document.  The italicized text in maroon are my observations.
>>
>>
>> The uneven aged stratum (15,233 acres) have three or more size- 
>> classes, with a little less than half in goshawk post-fledging  
>> family areas (PFA) and the remaining in foraging areas (FA).  
>> Approximately 25 percent of the stands in the project area (6,637  
>> acres) are even-aged as a result of past shelterwood seed-tree  
>> harvests.
>>
>> [This means that more than half the post fledgling family areas for  
>> the goshawks is in the even-aged stands in the project area]
>>
>> [various tables present the projections of the forest situations 20  
>> and 40 years in the future, however I should point out that the  
>> data used make the projections can be manipulated to produce almost  
>> any result desired]
>>
>> To increase tree vigor, improve tree growth and promote healthy  
>> trees, there is a need to reduce stocking to the recommended levels  
>> of about 150 trees per acre. The resulting stands would be more  
>> resilient to the effects of periodic drought, disease, insect  
>> attack, and fire.
>>
>> Replacement nest areas are identified within each PFA that does not  
>> have six identifiable current or historic nest areas. Within the  
>> project area there are approximately 3,200 acres of identified nest  
>> areas plus an additional 1,000 acres identified as replacement nest  
>> areas. Currently, the nesting areas average more than 600 trees per  
>> acre and some of these trees are providing ladder fuels into the  
>> overstory crowns. The average tree diameter is 6 inches and basal  
>> area is 127 square feet per acre (Table 5). The stand density index  
>> averages 295 and along with the other information means that the  
>> site is fully occupied and competition-induced mortality is  
>> occurring. Uneven-aged sites that comprise the existing nest areas  
>> display similar characteristics to the replacement nest areas.  
>> There is a need to avoid stand-replacing wildfires to maintain this  
>> wildlife habitat and move the areas toward fire-adapted conditions.  
>> The table below shows the modeling of existing nest areas over time  
>> with very high tree density levels.
>>
>> The existing nest sites are currently in the self-thinning mode  
>> (tree mortality) of development due to competition between trees  
>> for available light, moisture, and nutrients. By 2033 if left  
>> untreated, the trend would be continued mortality and extremely  
>> slow tree growth. The forecast for average tree diameter increases  
>> would be less than 1.0 inch in 20 years and      less than 2.0  
>> inches in 40 years. Those same trees under optimal less congested  
>> conditions should increase in diameter by 1.5 inches each decade  
>> (10 years). Tree mortality continues to increase through 2053 and  
>> puts these stands at risk from wildfire, insect attack, and  
>> disease. The probability exists that some kind of detrimental  
>> disturbance such as a wildfire could decimate these stands between  
>> now and 2053 if no corrective action takes place.
>>
>> [Nice ladder fire photo to add emotional impact to the data  
>> presented]
>>
>> [The game being played in the tables is the idea that a forest can  
>> be drastically thinned, without changing its official "Vegetation  
>> Structural Stage' as defined by the guidelines.  It is in effect  
>> saying that removing 80% of the trees in the area does not affect  
>> the forest because it still is in the same classification category]
>>
>> this project and detailed in Chapter 2 in response to the purpose  
>> and need described on page 4:
>>
>> Thin and convert the even-aged stratum to uneven-aged sites in FAs  
>> (3,170 acres) and PFAs (3,467 acres)
>>
>> Thin uneven-aged stratum in FAs (8,026 acres) and PFAs (7,207 acres)
>>
>> Thin and enhance site structure in northern goshawk nest areas  
>> (3,205 acres) and replacement nest areas (1,000 acres)
>>
>> [This data is presented in the form of a series of tables.  If you  
>> look at the numbers, consider the plan for the Uneven aged foraging  
>> areas, which contains about half of the Post Fledgling Foraging  
>> areas:  84.4% of the trees 1' to 4.9' in diameter will be removed,  
>> 49.9% of the trees 5" to 11.9" in diameter will be removed, and 9%  
>> of the trees 12' to 17.9" in diameter will be removed.  Similarly  
>> in the even aged stands, which hold over half of the post fledgling  
>> foraging area, 85.9% of the 1-4.9" trees will be removed, 66% of  
>> the trees 5 to 11.9" in diameter will be removed, 54.5% of the  
>> trees 12 to 17.9" will be removed and 63.6% of the trees 18 to  
>> 23.9" will be removed.  Also consider that the smaller sized trees  
>> make up a much higher percentage of the total tree      population,  
>> so extremely high numbers of smaller trees will be removed.  And  
>> then tell me this will not have any adverse impact on the foraging  
>> behavior of the goshawks?]
>>
>> [They are also proposing thinning the nesting areas of the goshawk  
>> as well, which I can not see as benefiting the goshawk population]
>>
>> Edward Frank
>>
>> "Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a  
>> monkey every now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of  
>> preserving nature...I couldn't live with myself." - Professor  
>> Hubert Farnsworth
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Edward Frank
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:43 PM
>> Subject: [ENTS] Re: Kaibab Plateau,        AZ
>>
>> Don,
>>
>> You can download the revised management plan for the project  at:
>>
>> http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/projects/jacob-ryan/JR_EA_Revision.pdf
>>
>> If you look at it the plan goes over and over about the need  
>> for        thinning and other management in certain areas of the  
>> forest to reduce fire risk and promote goshawk habitat - although  
>> aside from arm waving drivel it is vague on how their plans will  
>> actually do anything that will help the goshawk population.  Much  
>> of the plan is based upon dangers they have projected that will  
>> exist in 2053.  It is an amazing coincidence that their projections  
>> of the dangers involved match up so well with what they originally  
>> planned to do when the plan was first proposed in the mid- 90's  
>> without thought of these exacting numerical justifications.  There  
>> is no rationale presented for doing anything to the old growth  
>> forest identified in the plan, yet it is to be thinned and  
>> harvested.  In fact many areas previously identified as old growth  
>> are now classified as mature or younger forests in this latest  
>> revision.  Sure looks like a hatchet job to me.
>>
>> Edward Frank
>>
>> "Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a  
>> monkey every now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of  
>> preserving nature...I couldn't live with myself." - Professor  
>> Hubert Farnsworth
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Don Bertolette
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:02          AM
>> Subject: [ENTS] Re: Kaibab Plateau, AZ
>>
>>
>> While I am in NO way an apologist for the NKF, the forest is old, it
>> is habitat for the Goshawk, although there is significant controversy
>> between raptor experts (my last NPS supervisor/mentor was one of them
>> and I recommend reading papers by him, for one side of this story.  
>> His
>> name is Cole Crocker-Bedford. His stands against the logging of
>> goshawk habitat on the Tongass National Forest in Alaska are legion.
>> I am having a senior moment trying to recall the other goshawk
>> biologist...Richard ....maybe Reid?
>> Don
>>
>> Sent from Don's iPhone 3GS...
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2009, at 6:25 PM, Josh Kelly <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Lovely!
>> >
>> > I'm sure there is some hyperbole in the press release, but there  
>> is no
>> > way that timber sale will be a good one.
>> >
>> > Josh
>> >
>> > On Oct 22, 9:17 pm, "Edward Frank" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> People
>> >>
>> >> FYI:   Form the Center for Biological Diversity:
>> >>
>> >> This Tuesday, the Center for Biological Diversity sharply
>> >> criticized the U.S. Forest Service's latest take on devastating
>> >> plans to log old-growth trees in the Kaibab National Forest.
>> >> Unfortunately for the forest -- which houses the country's largest
>> >> breeding population of the imperiled northern goshawk -- the  
>> Forest
>> >> Service has issued a new environmental assessment for the
>> >> controversial Jacob Ryan timber sale, which would log 26,000 acres
>> >> but was halted in May thanks to work by the Center and Sierra  
>> Club.
>> >> The new assessment drops protections for old-growth trees,
>> >> essentially stating that the Kaibab Plateau has too much old  
>> growth
>> >> -- so axing those irksome old, large trees will be good  
>> for          wildlife.
>> >>
>> >> This marks the Forest Service's fourth attempt to move forward  
>> with
>> >> Jacob Ryan, and the Center will work to make sure it's the last.
>> >>
>> >> Edward Frank
>> >>
>> >> "Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a
>> >> monkey every now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of
>> >> preserving nature...I couldn't live with myself." - Professor
>> >> Hubert Farnsworth
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> >

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