What Ed was saying made a lot of sense. Now what you say here does also. 
It's amazing how all this other stuff will be used as an excuse to cut down 
trees in a forest. This is a perfect example.

--- On Fri, 10/23/09, Edward Frank <[email protected]> wrote:


From: Edward Frank <[email protected]>
Subject: [ENTS] Re: Kaibab Plateau, AZ
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 7:02 PM





Don,
 
I am not a goshawk ecologist and can not with any good conscious choose between 
one camp and the other.  It just strikes me that if the goshawks are actively 
breeding and foraging in the forest as it exists, then cutting down 80% of the 
trees in the area they have chosen to live is not likely to make things 
better.  Certainly the disturbance of the habitat will be a further detriment 
to their population.
 
Ed
 
"Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a monkey every 
now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of preserving nature...I 
couldn't live with myself." - Professor Hubert Farnsworth

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Don Bertolette 
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 9:51 PM
Subject: [ENTS] Re: Kaibab Plateau, AZ


Ed-
I am on the road and relying on my iPhone which I am sure you cosider a 
blessing, as it forces brevity on me...;-)


If you'll read the two opposing camps (Cole Crocker-Bedford vs. Richard Reid 
(?)) on goshawk habitat preference I think you'll find it's not so much an 
issue of diameter class sizes per se, but the forest structure and the way it 
impacts 'flyways'...a bunch of 1" to 4.9" undergrowth would not be goshawks 
preferred ground cover for preying on small animals. Where it gets more 
controversial is the upper story crown structure spatial arrangement and I must 
recommend Cole's paper/studies to you for a better understanding of 
forest/goshawk biological relationships.
Don 

Sent from Don's iPhone 3GS...

On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:15 PM, "Edward Frank" <[email protected]> wrote:





People
 
Perhaps I should elaborate more with some specifics:  The items in plain text 
are quotes from the 
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/projects/jacob-ryan/JR_EA_Revision.pdf document.  
The italicized text in maroon are my observations.
 
 
The uneven aged stratum (15,233 acres) have three or more size-classes, with a 
little less than half in goshawk post-fledging family areas (PFA) and the 
remaining in foraging areas (FA). Approximately 25 percent of the stands in the 
project area (6,637 acres) are even-aged as a result of past shelterwood 
seed-tree harvests.
 
[This means that more than half the post fledgling family areas for the 
goshawks is in the even-aged stands in the project area]
 
[various tables present the projections of the forest situations 20 and 40 
years in the future, however I should point out that the data used make the 
projections can be manipulated to produce almost any result desired]
 
To increase tree vigor, improve tree growth and promote healthy trees, there is 
a need to reduce stocking to the recommended levels of about 150 trees per 
acre. The resulting stands would be more resilient to the effects of periodic 
drought, disease, insect attack, and fire.
 
Replacement nest areas are identified within each PFA that does not have six 
identifiable current or historic nest areas. Within the project area there are 
approximately 3,200 acres of identified nest areas plus an additional 1,000 
acres identified as replacement nest areas. Currently, the nesting areas 
average more than 600 trees per acre and some of these trees are providing 
ladder fuels into the overstory crowns. The average tree diameter is 6 inches 
and basal area is 127 square feet per acre (Table 5). The stand density index 
averages 295 and along with the other information means that the site is fully 
occupied and competition-induced mortality is occurring. Uneven-aged sites that 
comprise the existing nest areas display similar characteristics to the 
replacement nest areas. There is a need to avoid stand-replacing wildfires to 
maintain this wildlife habitat and move the areas toward fire-adapted 
conditions. The table below shows the modeling of
 existing nest areas over time with very high tree density levels.
 
The existing nest sites are currently in the self-thinning mode (tree 
mortality) of development due to competition between trees for available light, 
moisture, and nutrients. By 2033 if left untreated, the trend would be 
continued mortality and extremely slow tree growth. The forecast for average 
tree diameter increases would be less than 1.0 inch in 20 years and less than 
2.0 inches in 40 years. Those same trees under optimal less congested 
conditions should increase in diameter by 1.5 inches each decade (10 years). 
Tree mortality continues to increase through 2053 and puts these stands at risk 
from wildfire, insect attack, and disease. The probability exists that some 
kind of detrimental disturbance such as a wildfire could decimate these stands 
between now and 2053 if no corrective action takes place.
 
[Nice ladder fire photo to add emotional impact to the data presented]
 
[The game being played in the tables is the idea that a forest can be 
drastically thinned, without changing its official "Vegetation Structural 
Stage' as defined by the guidelines.  It is in effect saying that removing 80% 
of the trees in the area does not affect the forest because it still is in the 
same classification category]
 
this project and detailed in Chapter 2 in response to the purpose and need 
described on page 4: 
 
Thin and convert the even-aged stratum to uneven-aged sites in FAs (3,170 
acres) and PFAs (3,467 acres) 
 
Thin uneven-aged stratum in FAs (8,026 acres) and PFAs (7,207 acres) 
 
Thin and enhance site structure in northern goshawk nest areas (3,205 acres) 
and replacement nest areas (1,000 acres) 
 
[This data is presented in the form of a series of tables.  If you look at the 
numbers, consider the plan for the Uneven aged foraging areas, which contains 
about half of the Post Fledgling Foraging areas:  84.4% of the trees 1' to 4.9' 
in diameter will be removed, 49.9% of the trees 5" to 11.9" in diameter will be 
removed, and 9% of the trees 12' to 17.9" in diameter will be removed.  
Similarly in the even aged stands, which hold over half of the post fledgling 
foraging area, 85.9% of the 1-4.9" trees will be removed, 66% of the trees 5 to 
11.9" in diameter will be removed, 54.5% of the trees 12 to 17.9" will be 
removed and 63.6% of the trees 18 to 23.9" will be removed.  Also consider that 
the smaller sized trees make up a much higher percentage of the total tree 
population, so extremely high numbers of smaller trees will be removed.  And 
then tell me this will not have any adverse impact on the foraging behavior of 
the goshawks?]
 
[They are also proposing thinning the nesting areas of the goshawk as well, 
which I can not see as benefiting the goshawk population]
 
Edward Frank
 
"Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a monkey every 
now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of preserving nature...I 
couldn't live with myself." - Professor Hubert Farnsworth

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Edward Frank 
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: [ENTS] Re: Kaibab Plateau, AZ


Don,
 
You can download the revised management plan for the project at:
 
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/kai/projects/jacob-ryan/JR_EA_Revision.pdf
 
If you look at it the plan goes over and over about the need for thinning and 
other management in certain areas of the forest to reduce fire risk and promote 
goshawk habitat - although aside from arm waving drivel it is vague on how 
their plans will actually do anything that will help the goshawk population.  
Much of the plan is based upon dangers they have projected that will exist in 
2053.  It is an amazing coincidence that their projections of the dangers 
involved match up so well with what they originally planned to do when the plan 
was first proposed in the mid- 90's without thought of these exacting numerical 
justifications.  There is no rationale presented for doing anything to the old 
growth forest identified in the plan, yet it is to be thinned and harvested.  
In fact many areas previously identified as old growth are now classified as 
mature or younger forests in this latest revision.  Sure looks like a hatchet 
job to me.
 
Edward Frank
 
"Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a monkey every 
now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of preserving nature...I 
couldn't live with myself." - Professor Hubert Farnsworth

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Don Bertolette 
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 1:02 AM
Subject: [ENTS] Re: Kaibab Plateau, AZ


While I am in NO way an apologist for the NKF, the forest is old, it  
is habitat for the Goshawk, although there is significant controversy  
between raptor experts (my last NPS supervisor/mentor was one of them  
and I recommend reading papers by him, for one side of this story. His  
name is Cole Crocker-Bedford. His stands against the logging of  
goshawk habitat on the Tongass National Forest in Alaska are legion.
I am having a senior moment trying to recall the other goshawk  
biologist...Richard ....maybe Reid?
Don

Sent from Don's iPhone 3GS...

On Oct 22, 2009, at 6:25 PM, Josh Kelly <[email protected]>  
wrote:

>
> Lovely!
>
> I'm sure there is some hyperbole in the press release, but there is no
> way that timber sale will be a good one.
>
> Josh
>
> On Oct 22, 9:17 pm, "Edward Frank" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> People
>>
>> FYI:   Form the Center for Biological Diversity:
>>
>> This Tuesday, the Center for Biological Diversity sharply  
>> criticized the U.S. Forest Service's latest take on devastating  
>> plans to log old-growth trees in the Kaibab National Forest.  
>> Unfortunately for the forest -- which houses the country's largest  
>> breeding population of the imperiled northern goshawk -- the Forest  
>> Service has issued a new environmental assessment for the  
>> controversial Jacob Ryan timber sale, which would log 26,000 acres  
>> but was halted in May thanks to work by the Center and Sierra Club.  
>> The new assessment drops protections for old-growth trees,  
>> essentially stating that the Kaibab Plateau has too much old growth  
>> -- so axing those irksome old, large trees will be good for wildlife.
>>
>> This marks the Forest Service's fourth attempt to move forward with  
>> Jacob Ryan, and the Center will work to make sure it's the last.
>>
>> Edward Frank
>>
>> "Oh, I call myself a scientist.  I wear a white coat and probe a  
>> monkey every now and then, but if I put monetary gain ahead of  
>> preserving nature...I couldn't live with myself." - Professor  
>> Hubert Farnsworth
> >
>







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