The more I think about it the more I realize just how important the "plumbing" is. The kind of disturbance that humans unleash on the landscape result in a total breakup of the infrastructure needed to produce champion tree. One example is how most if not nearly all trees require symbiotic (albeit sometimes facultative) presence of specific mycorrhyzil fungi in order to grow normally. Multiple cutting, clearing, and complete removal of the fungal mat reduce the viability and virility of trees. How long does it take to reestablish the forest infrastructure that will lead to optimal growth and super trees? The hypogaea fungi have been under estimated for many years.
As an imteresting aside, some scientists believe that trees may represent a kind of "inverted lichen". Early trees may have been the consequence of chlorophyceae algae evolving into plants and fungi providing the interface between the terrestrial substrate and the prototree. Whereas the fungus provides the major structuring element in lichens, the photosynthetic symbiont ( ie the alga) would have provided the major structuring element and the fungus the connection to water and minerals. Before "soil" the fungi could have provided the substrate for the emerging algae-plant. Both photosynthetic organisms have chlor a and b and some similarity in sexual reproduction. Look at the aquatic macrophyte Nitella or Chara to see what macroscopic algae can do (superficially resembles a large plant). Now imagine a fungal mat acting as a substrate and anchoring medium and the macroscopic algae growing out of the water; this "hypersea" held by the fungi, allowed for organisms to colonize a barren terrestrial landscape some 450 million years ago. Our own blood is a remnant of the sea. Reptiles developed the terrestrial egg. Plants developed a vascular system and eventually polymerized glucose (cellulose) and then polymerized cellulose (lignin or wood) for structural support in air. modern day trees are still largely dependent on mycorrhyzal fungi for obtaining water and minerals from the soil. Gary On Nov 24, 2009, at 8:42 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Don, > > Good points. However, I wasn't clear on what I meant by age not > being a factor - or at least not a big factor. I'm speaking of > individual city/town trees. In these old New England towns, there > are plenty of 120 to 160-year old trees. Under ideal growing > conditions, this should be sufficient for a scattered population o > 140-foot white pines. At least, I would think so. I suppose we must > turn to growing conditions. Certainly trees growing in yards and > along streets are under stress, but there are plenty of greenways, > parks, shallow ravines, etc. > > Frequency and severity of disturbance are assured factors. > Developed areas that were formerly paved or brown space don't do > well. Old estates probably do best. Least amount of disturbance there. > > Bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DON BERTOLETTE" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 1:15:36 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: RE: [ENTS] Re: more 140's > > Ed- > While I'm certainly out of my element, or at least have been for > more than a decade, but I disagree with Bob, it's both a lack of age > AND its history of disturbances...you can't go into an area, clear > it for agriculture, experience an industrial revolution, and logging > over several hundred years and expect to have the resilience the > area had back when it was kicking out some big trees. > It's going to take many more years...and probably the best you can > hope for is to see things set on a trajectory that approaches it's > past glories, rather than to watch it continue to diverge. > ENTS is on the right track doing its best to preserve those core > areas demonstrating enough remaining resilience (one measure could > be the capacity to approach past tree height/circumference/volume > maxima). > -Don > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ENTS] Re: more 140's > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:21:59 -0500 > > Ed > > No lack of age. Disturbance history is a different situation. I > don't have an answer yet. > > Bob > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:55 PM, "Edward Frank" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > John, Bob, > > How much of the lack of heights in the Connecticut River Valley is > related to the age of the trees and disturbance history rather than > the terrain? > > Ed > > > Check out my new Blog: http://nature-web-network.blogspot.com/ (and > click on some of the ads) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Eichholz > To: ENTSTrees > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 8:50 PM > Subject: [ENTS] Re: more 140's > > One could make a sort of contour map, with colors or lines to > delineate the height class observed. It would be neat, and would show > the correlation of terrain and height, as it exists. > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. > Sign up now. > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
