There is unlikely to be any change unless there is either a lot of money to be made or politicians' reelections are at stake.
PJ On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Beth Koebel <[email protected]> wrote: > Maybe Shakespere(sp?) had it wrong, it wasn't kill all the lawyers it was > suppose to be kill all the politians > Beth > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 22, 2009, at 10:54, Lee Frelich <[email protected]> wrote: > > Paul: > > Once again, good points. We have swung back and forth between so-called > liberal and conservative leaders, and in the mean time we got emerald > ash borer, dutch elm disease, hemlock wooley adelgid, balsam fir wooly > adelgid (which is now in Maine), butternut canker, beech bark disease, > Asian long-horned beetle, sudden oak death, sirex wood wasp, and forest > decline caused by earthworms, deer and climate change. > > Lee > > Paul Jost wrote: > Lee, > > Yes, arguing about politics leads to distraction from the real > issues. The national press caters to their audience for higher > ratings and to get their viewers emotionally involved. There is often > little real content once the discussions begin to evolve, but are > effective in increasing the polarization of our country based upon a > subset of the issues that we all have to deal with. In a family of 9, > roughly half of my family swings to the left and half to the right, > all to varying degrees. Only my dad is addicted to the national > TV/Radio shows, probably because he has more free time to do so than > any of us. Thankfully, the shows have not been successful in reeling > me in. > > Among my disappointments with our country is the extent to which > forest issues get lost in modern politics. As people lose their ties > to the land, clean air and water seem to be the only important > environmental issues. There seems to be no national party that > adequately supports wildlife and wild lands issues. > > Paul > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Lee Frelich <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Paul: > > Good points--you must be a true Midwesterner. Must have been those > "shock shows" as you termed them on Fox that I was watching that > accidentally started this whole discussion. As I said, they weren't > liberal or conservative, just irrational. Good thing I only watch > daytime TV once a year while having my car repaired. > > I do have a lot of fun watching other people accusing each other of > being liberal or conservative. Unfortunately, however, that activity > takes up almost all of the political scene and as a result, we > don't pay > any serious attention to problems that need to be solved. > > Lee > > Paul Jost wrote: > Come on, open your mind. CNN and MSNBC are horrible reporters, as > horribly liberal slanted as Fox is horribly conservative slanted. > Excluding the shock shows, Fox tends to more accurately report both > sides while still slanting conservative while the others put in only > token efforts to report the conservative viewpoints. None of the > national press sources are even close to being balanced. Both state > many truths mixed with omissions and distortions. If you believe > otherwise, than you only accept lies that support your view point, > which is not necessarily a good thing, but maybe to you it is. > > The truth is that the press on both sides has an agenda and slants > their reporting accordingly. Both parties have good points and bad > points on their platforms. Neither is the right choice. > Unfortunately, the other choices aren't realistic winners any time > soon. This is why many midwesterners tend to be middle of the > roaders, handpicking moderate candidates that lean their way. For > some reason, the more urban coast dwellers feel the need to be more > polarized and are condescending to eachother regarding their > viewpoints, both arrogantly asserting their correctness over the > other. > > Admit it. There is not perfect party, and at different levels, > local, > state, national, the right choice is not always from the same party. > ...and with the level of corruption that increases at the higher > levels, I'd argue that most of the time, there is no right > choice. We > have all heard many examples of anti-environmental policy by > conservatives, but the liberals are guilty of similar practices at > times, too. Here is one example that comes to mind, out of many. > Hopefully, all my recollections are accurate. > > Many liberals champion Clinton's environmental policy, while many at > regional and state levels that were affected by his poorer > environmental policies, chastised him. There was a western old > growth > preservationist group called something like Environmentalists > Against > Clinton, or something like that. There were others like the > Siskiyou > Regional Education Project. Easterners never heard about them. The > liberal national press didn't give them or their issues any > coverage. > They were angered by Clinton's signing of legislation with the > Salvage > Rider which re-enabled logging of forests that had only months > earlier > been protected, or assumed to be protected by the nationally > publicized spotted owl protection effort. Once things quieted down, > he reopened logging under another name. The roadless area > protection > that Clinton is credited with was passes as an executive order > during > his last days as president so that he wouldn't have to deal with > it's > negative political impacts against rich lobbyists until after the > election. At least through the end of Bush's first term, more old > growth forest was logged during the Clinton years. With what was > reported at the time, you would think that in Bush's first term, he > would have surpassed the Clinton era's logging of old growth forests > in the west. A quick internet search came up with this text from > that time: > http://www.fireecology.org/research/post_rider_salvage.htm > > There is NO right party. Both of them really stink!!! Stop the > superiority complex attitudes and open your minds a little.. Geez! > Given the lessons of the past, and all the rhetoric coming from the > current administration, I won't believe that Obama is any better > until > he accomplishes something significant without continuing to ruin our > economy. (Yes, continuing down the path of economic > self-distruction > of ALL the recent past presidents during my lifetime.) > > Paul J. > > > > On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Ariel <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > "I could say the same about CNN and the other networks" > > No, you couldn't. Only Faux News blatantly makes things up. > The > rest simply confuse 'balance' for objectivity. > > > /Lin/ > / > > / > > > --- On *Tue, 12/22/09, Will Fell /<[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>>/* > wrote: > > > From: Will Fell <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>> > Subject: [ENTS] Re: A little story > To: "ENTSTrees" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>> > Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:49 AM > > I too am a conservative and an environmentalist. I could say > the same > about CNN and the other networks which are nothing more > than the > publicity arm of the current administration. Ed makes a > good point > about the NRA and if you look at the current enviromental > groups THAT > REALLY do make a difference, they hew somewhat to the > same narrow > focus. > > On Dec 21, 10:12 pm, Barry Caselli > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > wrote: > You say "Fox Network". Are you referring to the local Fox > affiliate, or The Fox News Channel? The Fox News Channel is > one of my all-time favorite channels. > > --- On Mon, 12/21/09, Lee Frelich <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > wrote: > > From: Lee Frelich <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [ENTS] A little story > To: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 5:55 PM > > Bob: > > Similar thing happened to me at the Buick dealer in > Minneapolis two > weeks ago, except the TV was set on Fox network. I had no > idea that TV > was such irrational nonsense. If I though it would do any > good, I would > write in and tell the FCC that Fox should not be > relicensed > to broadcast > when their current license expires. > > Lee > > > > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > wrote: > ENTS, > > Back when I was younger, before my hair turned gray and > starting > falling out, I imagined how I might recognize the > onset of > decline > into old age with its attendant feelings of > powerlessness > and the > eventual oblivion? > > This morning I think I discovered the metric needed, > while > waiting for > my car to be serviced at the local Buick dealer. It > was a > little too > raw to go outside and wander around looking at > trees, so I > stuck it > out in the waiting room, which meant I was exposed > to the > T.V. set. > Game shows. Horror of horrors. Two little old ladies had > copped the > set were glued to the wins and losses. They discouraged > any thoughts > of channel changing with piercing looks. I audibly > mumbled my > displeasure, but wasn't about to chance getting > swatted by > an old > lady's purse.. I sullenly set through the hoopla. > > Game shows. What better measure of mental decline than a > tally of the > number of hours spent watching giddy contestants > alternately scream > and bawl and confirm our addiction to materialism. Where > do we cast > our ballots for euthanasia? > > Bob > > -- > Eastern Native Tree > Societyhttp://www.nativetreesociety.org > <http://www.nativetreesociety.org> > <http://www.nativetreesociety.org/> > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > Visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > <http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en> > To unsubscribe send email to > > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > > > < > http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > -- > Eastern Native Tree > Societyhttp://www.nativetreesociety.org > <http://www.nativetreesociety.org> > <http://www.nativetreesociety.org/> > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > Visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > <http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en> > To unsubscribe send email to > > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > > > < > http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > >- > Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > <http://www.nativetreesociety.org/> > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected] > > > > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > > > < > http://us.mc562.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected]> > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > >> > > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > <mailto:entstrees%[email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > > > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > > > > > > -- > Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org > Send email to [email protected] > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en > To unsubscribe send email to > [email protected]<entstrees%[email protected]> > -- Eastern Native Tree Society http://www.nativetreesociety.org Send email to [email protected] Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/entstrees?hl=en To unsubscribe send email to [email protected]
