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Ed. In my comment, I referred actually to the fact that longer wings might lead to a slower speed overall, not only the stall speed. I am sorry, I was not clear enough by speaking just about the Vne. However, what I really meant is that with longer wings, one will have more lift for sure, a slower stall speed probably and the Vne is not an issue so much, since you'll having a harder time reaching even 144 MPH. This is because of the higher drag which comes with a bigger and longer wing. And since we speak of the Vne, I not only ones managed to pass redline, full throttle, elevator all the way forward. That was at times before my ailerons started the flutter. My observations are: Something else will start to flutter or is just ready to do so. This is how it feels. Most likely the sliding windows first. Then, pulling out of that dive has to be done very gentle, the controls act different at that speed , a little input brings you very far. In my first attempt to pull out of the dive, I pulled a few G, I guess. But that's not scary. The scary part is the noise the plane makes at that moment. As if it wants to fall apart. Just remember to slow down first, when getting out of a dive at higher speeds . I think that at least N3330H is good advised not to go faster than 144 . Now I am thinking how an airframe like that will act with even longer wings, producing even more lift. Forces, which in a dive just want to snap your wings off. N3330H has its wings metalized by the way. I am not saying , I don't want to fly fast. I actually really want to fly fast sometimes. By doing so I saw the limits of the Ercoupes wing. If you really want to go fast in a coupe one would be advised to use a different airfoil. Like someone else from this list just recently mentioned, even Fred Weick would probably choose a different airfoil in today days . I am hopefully getting my new engine next week, an overhauled C-85 . The controls are back place with new Heimjoints and all play and slack removed . New steering ball etc.. I fly from time to time in a Cherokee 140, Fred's 4 Seat Ercoupe. And I must say that it needs an airframe like that to fly a little faster. It is not only the engine making the speed , but also the wings. No. I did not redline the Cherokee yet. Greetings Hartmut Ed Burkhead wrote: > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- > > Hartmut wrote: > > then you probably reduce your Vne so that you are right, > > they'll never bust you on max speed. > > Hartmut, > > Light Sport Aircraft has NO limit on Vne. It only has a limit on V(h) which > is maximum level speed with "maximum continuous" power. Doesn't the C-85 > have a limit on maximum continuous rpm? Level flight speed at that rpm > would be what is limited under LSA to 132 mph (115 kts.) > > As I have read, the Coupe's 144 mph Vne came from the maximum speed safe > with Grade A cotton wings. A lot of planes with fabric covered wings had > the same Vne, I was told. > > Knowing that, I tried to do a cruise descent with power to go up to 144 mph > one day. It was somewhere in the 135 mph range that I got aileron flutter > and that cured me of wanting to personally test Vne. > > Ed Burkhead > http://edburkhead.com/ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hartmut [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:59 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Top ten ercoupe improvements? > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > Chris. > > Nice list. of items to do. > Ithink if you change item > 8. A touch longer wings for slower "stall" (read as mush if you like). > then you probably reduce your Vne so that you are right, they'll never bust > you on max speed. > > :) > Hartmut > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > I've got to agree with the philosophy of keeping a 'Coupe a 'Coupe. If it > wasn't > > a 'Coupe I wanted then there are plenty of other planes out there that > could > > probably do what I want. > > > > Here's what I expect to get out of a 'Coupe, > > > > 1. A beautiful and unique airplane worthy of comment. > > 2. A stable and safe airplane that is easy and fun to fly. > > 3. Something I can tool around in and have fun. > > 4. A convertible!! (Sorry Alon fans, I like my windows down) > > > > What I will not compromise: > > > > 1. Stall speed and performance. > > 2. Low speed flight characteristics. > > 3. Air and ground handling. > > 4. Form and appearance. > > 5. Simplicity. > > > > Immediately negotiable items include. > > > > 1. Avionics > > 2. Seating > > 3. Paint jobs > > 4. Engines > > 5. Non structural materials > > > > My top ten change list so far: > > > > 1. Smaller Header tank > > 2. More comfortable seats. (Not bucket or Cessna) > > 3. Fuel tank foam. All tanks. > > 4. Better heating/vent system. > > 5. 100 HP high efficiency engine. > > 6. More aerodynamic canopy that still opens in flight. > > 7. Small-format IFR capable glass cockpit. (something I can hide behind > the > > glove box cover) > > 8. A touch longer wings for slower "stall" (read as mush if you like). > > 9. Ultra-lightweight composites for painted trim and fairings. > > 10. Yes, last but not least I have to include...... Sport Pilot > approved. > > > > Trim a little weight, slow the stall speed a bit, Viola. > > Somehow I doubt they'll ever bust me on max speed. > > > > Chris > > > > On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 16:58:15 -0800 (PST), "William R. Bayne" wrote: > > > > > > > > ----[Please read <a > > href="<a > > > href="http://mail.trent.net/jump/http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm";>http :/ > /ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm</a>">http://mail.trent.net/jump/http://ercou pe > rs.com/disclaimer.htm">http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm</a><advice > > > in this forum.]---- > > > > > > > > > on 2/6/03 12:31 PM, Hartmut at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > ----[Please read <a > > href="<a > > > href="http://mail.trent.net/jump/http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm";>http :/ > /ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm</a>">http://mail.trent.net/jump/http://ercou pe > rs.com/disclaimer.htm">http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm</a><> > advice in > this > > forum.]---- > > > > > > > > Jim. > > > > I really like your analogy. > > > > Can't say it better. > > > > > > > > Hartmut > > > > > > > > Jim Phelps wrote: > > > > > > > >> ----[Please read <a > > href="<a > > > href="http://mail.trent.net/jump/http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm";>http :/ > /ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm</a>">http://mail.trent.net/jump/http://ercou pe > rs.com/disclaimer.htm">http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm</a><> >> advice > in this > > forum.]---- > > > >> > > > >> Would be nice but it would be like the people who moved to the desert > > > >> by Barstow CA. they liked the hot dry climate because they felt > better > > > >> than when at the coast. but than they brought in ther plants and > > > >> trees(like on the cosast) and made lakes around there places and than > > > >> complained the desert wasn't like it used to and was more like there > > > >> old home. Change the coupe and it won't be the coupe... Jim 2749H > > > >> > > > OK Guys, > > > > > > Rejoice! Your philosophy has much more to offer! > > > > > > Convert your C-85s back to C-75s; then remove those (with starter, > generator > > > and battery) and install C-65s. Don't forget to take out the second > wing > > > tank...it wasn't even optional until later. Sell your metal props and > get > > > wood ones. Put the ball back in your nose gear steering. Install the > > > crank-type (no tab) elevator trim, and voluntarily fly at 1175 lbs. > maximum > > > gross! And tell the FAA to "pound sand"...reinstall the aluminum alloy > > > carburetor support fittings and remove your gascolator braces. > > > > > > You'll have to change your forged aluminum main landing gear, main wing > spar > > > and wing fuel tanks. If you had the "steel" main landing gear, you'll > have > > > to convert back to the double-fork aluminum trailing arms. > > > > > > Leave the radios and nav aids on the ground. Ahh, I forgot. You can't > > > leave! The original size tires aren't available anymore, and neither is > > > original fuel. Anybody need a ride to the next fly-in? > > > > > > WRB > > > > > > ========================================================================== == > == > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > ========================================================================== == > == > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > ========================================================================== ==== > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ ========================================================================== ==== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/
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