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Bob, Comments intermingled below. Terminology reference: http://edburkhead.com/Challenger/categories_of_LSA.htm -----Original Message----- From: Bob Branch Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:49 PM To: Ed Burkhead Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes Ed > Why would a person want to certify an airplane as and experimental > LSA? Up to a few weeks ago, the operating limits for a gELSA were so limiting that the consensus on the Sport_Pilot and Sport_Aircraft forums were that a person would be somewhat crazy to register the plane as a gELSA instead of ExpAB. But we've hear that the FAA Sport staff had a meeting to discuss the problems of acceptance of Sport (only about 80 Sport Pilots in the first year and most of them were doing it for instruction). Supposedly, in that meeting, the FAA staff decided to improve the operating limits for gELSA. We've seen the operating limits issued to one plane, since then, and the operating limits were essentially identical to ExpAB. The DAR told the owner that those were the limits he was supposed to assign per the new guidelines. This leaves maintenance and resale as important differences. With gELSA, subsequent owners can take the 16 hour course and get a repairman certificate (inspection) to do the annual condition inspection for owned aircraft. With ExpAB, only the builder is eligible for the repairman certificate for that aircraft and all subsequent owners must go to an A&P. > As an owner and builder I would certainly want a plane that > passed the certification standards, in particular I refer to the > handling requirements that require them to handle like a normal > aircraft with proper stabilities rather than the free for all and all > to often divergent stabilities we see in homebuilt aircraft. But if > the plane meets the handling standards and I were building it I > sure would not certify it as an LSA but a regular experimental. Right. So you should buy a kit with a reputation for good behavior and stability and all the characteristics you want. When you do the test flights, you make sure it is in conformance. When you do the 40 hours of phase 1 testing, do actual testing and make the airplane work properly. ExpAB or gELSA - it doesn't make a difference. Yeah, certificated aircraft have much tighter original construction. But can you afford a new plane or are you comparing with 60 year old airplanes that could have been through anything including a dataplate-upward restoration. > The LSA category limits the plane from flying at night does it > not? No. Some (most?) SLSA manufacturers are attaching operating limits for day VFR only. But, for an experimental gELSA, it may be flown at night if the pilot is a PP who was trained for night flying and if the aircraft has appropriate instruments and lights. > I believe I have read rotax has placed an ifr and night restriction on > their motors in LSA's. If the aircraft were licensed as an > experimental and built within and operated within the limits of > LSA rule by an LSA pilot, the place would still have resale > value as an experimental and open to night and ifr useage. It > would not affect the LSA pilot/owner, but it sure would make > it open to a bigger market at resale time. See comment above about SLSA. Rotax is being cautious. They have not certified that any of their 2-stroke engines meet the ASTM consensus standards. As for their 4-stroke engines, I don't know if they have any such no-night, no-IFR limit. > As I was looking at doing a kit > LSA i was sure gonna put navigation and landing lights on it. Absolutely. Be aware: There is not yet any such thing as a kit ELSA. The kit consensus standards have not been completed and signed off by the FAA. There are aircraft built from parts and aircraft built from kits which have never before been certified by the FAA. These are eligible to be inspected and registered as gELSA. Some of these kits are on the FAA's 51% list meaning the manufacturer has demonstrated to the FAA that a builder must complete at least some task in 51% of the task categories while building the kit. Such kits could be registered as ExpAB without having to prove 51% compliance to the FAA - that was already done to get it on the list. When the kit ELSA standard is completed and the FAA signs off on it, you may be able to buy an ELSA kit. It then MUST be completed exactly like the manufacturers standard and tested to be conforming to the manufacturers standard. Perhaps most of these will be BUILT by the manufacturer except for sticking the decals on the panel which, when done by the owner, will allow it to be kELSA. Or, you can get a completely factory built ELSA which was given a downgraded certificate and therefore is a dELSA. Before this last meeting, there were different operating limits for each category of ELSA. We've got to see the CHG 2 version of FAA Order 8130.2F to know what the new rules are and it's not yet published on the web. Got a headache yet? Ed Burkhead http://edburkhead.com ed -at- edburkhead???.com (change -at- to @ and remove "???") ============================================================================== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/
