----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Being a sport pilot candidate, what you describe is the tought process I went trough when deciding to buy the Ercoupe. Eliacim Cortes N87071 Quoting Larry Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > Your last sentence really sums the whole thing up. > > "Will pay what the aircraft is worth to me." > > If I am a Sport Pilot, consider my options for owning an airplane: > > 1. I could own an old fabric taildragger without an electrical > system. I can get one for under $20k. Oh boy! I get to prop the plane > when I want to fly! > > 2. I could buy a new SLSA plane. Oops - $80k. > > 3. I could build a kit - ELSA. But I'm not a builder, and I want to > fly my plane before I die. > > 4. I could buy an Ercoupe. It has an electrical system, a starter, > tricycle gear, pretty much the stuff I want. Is it worth more than a > fabric taildragger? It is to me, because I want a plane with an > electrical system and tricycle gear. For me to lose interest in an > Ercoupe, it needs to be more than half the price of an SLSA, in a > condition that satisfies me. I can put my Ercoupe in really good > shape for $40k! And I've still paid half of an SLSA. For me, the old > classic taildraggers aren't even in the equation. > > I think the rising cost of Ercoupes has come from this thinking. I > think there will always be a bunch of guys not renewing their > medicals, and new guys not wanting to get one, who have $30k to > spend, who will have their sights set on an Ercoupe. > > Just my opinion, natürlich! > > Larry > N 99340 > > On Dec 20, 2005, at 8:14 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before > > following any advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > Very nice Ed. You certainly covered all areas very well. > > I still love the Coupe but have a difficult time with SOME wanting > > way more > > than they are worth because some who are not familiar with the > > problems or > > cost of owning these older aircrafts are purchasing them. And then > > having to > > spend a great deal of money to get them as they should or even > > worse, will > > let them sit and never be completed. > > > > I am like many who have owned and repaired these older aircrafts. > > Will pay > > what the aircraft is worth to me. > > > > Lee > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ed Burkhead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Cflyin" <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:02 AM > > Subject: [COUPERS-FLYIN] LSA as alternative to Coupes > > > > > >> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before > >> following any > > advice in this forum.]---- > >> > >> > >> Lee wrote: > >>> Bob don't know where you are looking, and yes some are that > >>> high, which I agree is too much, but some are in the 50's and > >>> 60's. Rans S-6 and the S-7, Pulsar, and Zeneth are all selling > >>> new in the 60's, and for a year or two old comes down into the > >>> 40's. > >> > >> > >> Here are "watch out for"s for those considering any kind of LSA: > >> > >> SLSA - The $70-$90k LSA aircraft being sold are SLSA - Special > >> Light Sport > >> Aircraft. These are factory built to the consensus standard and > >> must be > >> maintained by an appropriately rated LSA repairman (maintenance) > >> or A&P or > >> higher and the annual condition inspections must be signed off by > >> those > > same > >> levels of mechanic. Pay close attention to the difference between > >> base > >> price versus fly-away price. And watch out because *some* sellers > >> don't > >> include shipping costs from Eastern Europe in the prices they are > >> quoting > >> you - till after you commit. > >> > >> By their SLSA status, they are much closer to certificated status > >> than > > they > >> are to experimental. They MAY be used for commercial instruction > >> and to a > >> large extent, that's what they're being sold for. These also have > > operating > >> limits similar to certificated aircraft in that they may fly over > >> densely > >> populated areas under the same rules as certificated aircraft. The > >> manufacturer MAY impose operating limits that are permanent such > >> as VFR > > only > >> or VFR daytime only - check it out before you buy. > >> > >> Any aircraft more than a year old cannot be a SLSA - no SLSAs had > >> been > >> approved that far back. Buyer beware. > >> > >> dELSA - Some factories are selling a factory built LSA with only > >> an ELSA > >> airworthiness certificate. If it was built by the factory to > >> their SLSA > >> standard but issued a downgraded dELSA airworthiness certificate, > >> it gets > >> better operating limits than the lower certificates. These may be > >> maintained by anyone but the annual condition inspection may be > >> done by > > the > >> owner if he/she has a repairman (inspection) (16 hour course) > >> certificate > > or > >> by a repairman (maintenance), A&P or higher. > >> > >> kELSA - The next level of LSA would be kELSA or kit-built > >> Experimental > > Light > >> Sport Aircraft - if there were such a thing in existence. These > >> don't yet > >> exist because the consensus standard for kits has not been > >> completed and > >> approved by the FAA. These may be maintained by anyone but the > >> annual > >> condition inspection may be done by the owner if he/she has a > >> repairman > >> (inspection) (16 hour course) certificate or by a repairman > >> (maintenance), > >> A&P or higher. > >> > >> gELSA - This level is for the never-before-registered ultralight > >> trainers > >> and fat-UL aircraft. They must pass an inspection basically > >> identical to > >> the ExpAB (Experimental Amateur Built) aircraft. These may be > >> maintained > > by > >> anyone but the annual condition inspection may be done by the > >> owner if > >> he/she has a repairman (inspection) (16 hour course) certificate > >> or by a > >> repairman (maintenance), A&P or higher. > >> > >> Aircraft may only be converted to be gELSA until January 31, > >> 2008. Even > > new > >> aircraft built between now and January 31, 2008 are eligible for this > >> status. > >> > >> Up till a couple of weeks ago, these gELSA got the most restrictive > >> operating limits essentially prohibiting them from ever flying over > > densely > >> populated areas even to land at an airport. But, a few weeks ago, > >> the FAA > >> staff had a meeting. Since then, we've seen one newly inspected > >> aircraft > >> get operating limits similar to the ExpAB limits with the > >> inspector saying > >> these are according to the new guidelines he had received. By > >> these, the > >> aircraft may fly over densely populated areas at the direction of air > >> traffic control or while landing or taking off as long as they > >> maintain > >> sufficient altitude to effect a safe emergency landing in the > >> event of a > >> power unit failure. We're waiting for publication of the new > >> change to > > FAA > >> order 8130.2F. Up till now, we've only seen CHG 1. This would be > >> a CHG > > 2. > >> > >> Those one or two year old aircraft being advertised as LSA are often > >> certified as either ExpAB or dELSA or even gELSA. It is ESSENTIAL > >> to know > >> what the operating limits are on the aircraft before you put down > >> you tens > >> of thousands of dollars! > >> > >> Here's a reference showing the privileges of each kind of LSA > >> aircraft: > >> http://edburkhead.com/Challenger/LSA_privilege_chart.htm > >> > >> It's a mess. Buying a Coupe is simpler, if you can find a clean > >> one (or > >> like projects). > >> > >> However, the new crop of aircraft built to be within the LSA > >> standards to > > be > >> flown by Sport Pilots have better performance than our Coupes. > >> They're > > much > >> like what Fred would be designing if he were here today. > >> > >> Fred told me in an interview that he never expected Coupes to be > >> in use in > >> 10 years. The rate of progress was so fast, when he designed > >> them, that > > he > >> thought new, clearly superior designs would have taken over the > >> market. > >> That estimate was off by 55 years, but it's finally happening. > >> > >> We can still love our Coupes for their relatively low cost and > >> intrinsic > >> value, their historicity and for the family of Coupers that comes > >> with > > them. > >> > >> Ed Burkhead > >> http://edburkhead.com > >> ed -at- edburkhead???.com (change -at- to @ and remove "???") > >> > >> > >> > > ====================================================================== > > ====== > > == > >> To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > >> Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > >> > >> > >> > > > > ====================================================================== > > ======== > > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > ============================================================================== > To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/ > > > > > ============================================================================== To leave this forum go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm Search the archives on http://escribe.com/aviation/coupers/
