All : I guess I started a fire storm with my question on flying over gross.
I never encourage anyone to violate an FAR or an aircraft operating limitation. I simply wondered how many people considered it a big deal to go 100 pounds over gross in a C model, when we all know that a D model is certificated 140 pounds higher than a C with no structural or other meaningful changes to the actual airplane itself. The only real change is the restriction of the elevator travel in a D to prevent stalling at the higher gross weight. As for insurance - many eons ago, some policies contained what was then known as a "violation of FAR" clause, which voided coverage if the pilot violated an FAR. This concept was dropped from insurance policies at least 20 years ago, probably much longer ago than that. Because, it became apparent to courts that it's almost impossible to have an accident without violating some FAR or operating limitation, so that clause, if applied, would void coverage for almost all accidents. Accidents usually can be tied to violating some FAR or another, such as flight into IMC, running out of fuel, poor maintenance, etc. Hence, insurance nowadays doesn't contain a "violation of FAR" clause. As for a ramp check - yes, the Feds can do a W&B on the spot. Remember, you're required to have the W&B document(s) in your airplane for every flight. So the Fed could look at it, get the empty weight, see how much fuel you have, and look at you and your passenger. If it's close by eye-balling, you'd likely not be violated. But if the two of you weigh 230 pounds each (like I and some of my buddies would, especially in the winter with heavy clothes), and your W&B documents show a useful load of 400 pounds, you're going to be violated, since you're over gross by 60 pounds with NO fuel. Remember that people usually weigh themselves at home in rather scanty attire. That might be fine for our medical needs, but when you fly an airplane, people are usually clothed. In the summer, a pair of shorts, T shirt and tennis shoes may not add much. But in the winter, heavy jeans, heavy coat, probably heavy shoes or some kind of boots can add a lot. So, fly legal, fly safe, and enjoy. Jerry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of AJ DeMarzo Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 7:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ercoupe-tech] Gross Weight It's just a fact of economics. Insurance companies won't keep customers if they fail to pay by nicking and dime-ing on claims. I know I wouldn't buy from someone who does that. Heck, one would even extend that into shopping for their homeowners policy. There may be someone here that may have absolute first hand knowledge of a refusal to pay, but unless you've seen the entire report in writing, you don't know all the facts. Jerry is an attorney that also has an insurance practice, so I think he's qualified to make statements. Also, how are they going to tell you were over gross? Better phrased, how much money is it going to take them to prove you were over gross. Anyone ever get ramp checked by a fed with a scale? So as not to make any statements or indications that may be misconstrued as my position, don't fly over gross. Matter of fact, try dropping 5 pounds before the summer. Lets you carry an extra gallon of gas! Al DeMarzo Visit the Ercoupe Swap Page Free, Easy and No Membership Required http://www.ercoupeowners.com/swap/swapbook.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Green To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:44 AM Subject: [ercoupe-tech] Gross Weight Folks should consider insurance provisions carefully. Most insurance policies have fairly lengthy exclusions. Mine says coverage is excluded or does not apply "if you know the aircraft is not certificated by the FAA under a Standard Airworthiness Certificate in full force and effect while in flight". I am not an attorney but exceeding the W&B/GW of an a/c could be interpreted as being out of conformance with the Airworthiness Certificate. I have heard gross weight exceedence arguments from insurance carriers before. Talk to your provider. I bet you won't be covered. The points made by others with respect to normal and utility category g load maximums also are important, especially with older aircraft.
