Linda.
I had Magneto trouble ones myself.
It appeared rather suddenly and a cheap field repair was no option, so they 
were sent out for a rebuilt. Now that was expensive.

I guess your mechanic tried to save you a buck, but failed to recognize the 
already weak magnetos.

If I would be your mechanic, I would ask you whether you want to buy yourself 
time and less hassle by having sometimes significantly higher bills, but no 
trouble after that.

In your case the mechanic should have sent out both magnetos for an overhaul or 
replacement in the first place.

I bet it was more annoying for you to have all that trouble after the annual 
than having 1000 Dollars spent more at the annual.

Now you can't just walk up to a mechanic and tell him that money is no issue. 
One has to make clear at the work order that one expects an as new or better 
system after the repair. That will stir him the right path.

The way your mechanic writes bills is weird , to say the least.
10 hours for the annual inspection which should include filter changes is too 
much time in my opinion.
I assisted at a few annuals with my Ercoupe and looking up the ADs and checking 
all items on the list can be done in 5 hours. Bad news if you have to pull the 
generator for a check or remove the wings. But even an annual with a center 
section check should not take 10 hours.

Maybe you start looking around at your airfield for a mechanic that knows small 
continentals. 
The Ercoupe airframe is simple and just needs love and respect. Specialties as 
the landing gear issues can be taught.


Hartmut





  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Linda Abrams 
  To: [email protected] 
  Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 10:44 AM
  Subject: [ercoupe-tech] legitimate charges?


  I need the collective experience and advice of the group to advise on 
  the situation below, esp. from our A&Ps on the list. The $-amount of 
  the charges isn't the main issue (everything is more expensive in 
  SoCal.), but on the sequence of events, and whether charging for the 
  second round was legitimate, or whether the problems should have been 
  caught on the annual. Please forgive the amount of detail and 
  wordiness here, but I'm not sure what will be meaningful, so I'm 
  including everything. Something just doesn't seem quite right, but 
  maybe it's my inexperience...

  In mid-June, I flew my Ercoupe to El Monte & left it with the A&P for 
  its annual while I went out of town. On the flight to El Monte, I 
  noticed the engine sounding rough, and on the run-up, the L mag had 
  dropped noticeably more. This was a new problem & I duly reported it 
  to the A&P when I left it with him for annual. He called me with the 
  diagnosis that the L mag distributor block was cracked and should be 
  replaced. In all, he had it ~ 3 weeks, and was a day late getting 
  it ready for me to pick up.

  The labor items on that bill read:
  "1. Annual inspection
  2. Oil Change & filter - Shell 100W Plus 4 Qts
  3. Left mag drop - replaced #1 bottom lead, removed left mag - 
  replaced block and gear & retimed both mags to correct timing.
  4. Replaced air filter
  5. Cleaned fuel filter
  6. Installed vertical card compass & adj." (I had asked to get rid of 
  the old leaking fluid-type.)

  The total labor charged was 14.5 hrs. (of which he said about 10 hrs. 
  is for the Annual), total labor charge = $1160.
  The parts list included "oil filter $29.50, air filter 10.95, mount 
  $65., vert card compass $329, ign. lead $93.90, mag. block $91.43, 
  kit gear $89.43" (not sure what that is).

  The total amount of the bill was just under $2000. -- maybe 1/4 of 
  that was for the new compass & mount.

  When I picked it up, 3 things had not been addressed: he wrote down 
  correctly in the logbook that the ELT battery was due for change Apr. 
  '08, but then didn't read accurately the date he wrote, so he didn't 
  order or change the ELT battery...and that meant I would have to fly 
  it back to him again for that. (That's a half-hour flight each way.) 
  He omitted to stop-drill a small crack on the edge of the nose 
  cowling that had been on my list. And the exhaust pipe was still 
  hitting the cowling at the edge of the hole it comes out of, which 
  had also been on my list (later determined to be because a cowling 
  clamp was loose, I think he said; see below; but why wasn't that 
  caught on the annual when it had been on the squawk list for the 
  annual?).

  I picked it up on a Wednesday afternoon, and flew it the half-hour 
  trip home. I didn't fly it again until Saturday a.m., when I flew it 
  over to Long Beach (about a 20 min. flight), intending to help fly 
  some kids at the Young Eagles rally. But once I landed, it wouldn't 
  start up again. That's after less than 1 hr. total flight time since 
  the Annual. I killed about 2 hrs. trying to get it running, with 
  the help of a half-dozen EAA old-timers and the CAP flight line 
  mechanic. The starter sounded normal, but nothing "caught." I tried 
  to reach the A&P, but didn't hear back from him until Sunday night. I 
  had to leave my plane at LGB that Saturday, and one of the EAA guys 
  flew me back to my airport. This ruined my flying plans for both 
  that day and the EOC Region 7 event the next day. It also killed 
  another half-day of my time on Monday to go meet the A&P back at Long 
  Beach, where he finally got it to start -- after a lot of trouble. 
  He diagnosed the ignition switch as old, and advised I replace it at 
  a cost of about $50, and to do that I would have to fly it out to him 
  at El Monte again, which I did the following Friday.

  On that Friday, it took two tries & some nursing it, but I did get it 
  started, and I arrived at El Monte at 3 p.m. I asked the A&P if 
  timing (which did not feel smooth to me, despite having been billed 
  for timing above) could have anything to do with the starting 
  problems. He replaced the ignition switch (and I now wonder whether 
  that was even necessary), and he eventually found that BOTH mags had 
  "very weak sparks" and he changed the points & condensors, timed it 
  again, and it ran WAY better. In all, we were there from 3-6 p.m. (3 
  hrs., though it looked like at least part of that time he had an 
  assistant working with him on it). The bill I've now received in the 
  mail reads:

  Labor
  1. Replace ELT battey - parts only labor N/C
  2. ACRT WON'T Start in LGB airport gas only labor N/C [i.e. he did 
  not charge for his time to come to LGB the previous Monday to get it 
  started up so I could fly it out, but he did charge $50 for his van 
  gas to drive out there]
  3. Replaced ignition switch - very old original
  4. Found weak sparks on mags - removed left & right mags. Left mag - 
  reset point gap & retimed . Replaced points and condenser in Right 
  mag. Cleaned & lubed rear bearing set gap. Retimed to engine. 
  Reinstalled cowling. After ground running engine to insure good 
  starting & no problems occur in the future.

  Labor: 4.6 hrs. @ $85/hr [i.e. hourly labor charge appears to have 
  increased since the previous week, and the charge was 4.6 hrs (does 
  that incl. assistant?) between 3-6 p.m.]

  Parts: ELT battery $38., Ign. switch 98.95, TCM mag points $56, TCM 
  Condensor $37.80

  Van Gas: $50

  Total bill $690.78

  I don't know enough about mags to know whether -- when he replaced 
  the "mag distributor block & gear and re-timed the engine" during the 
  Annual -- should he have caught the fact that both mag sparks were 
  extremely weak then?...or could both of them have failed 
  simultaneously and suddenly within the first hour of flying post- 
  annual? Was it legitimate to charge for re-timing twice? There was 
  an obvious and significant difference to the way the engine felt 
  after the second time, that was not there the first time -- even to 
  my amateur perceptions -- making me wonder if the timing had in fact 
  been adjusted properly (or at all?) the first time around. Given 
  what else had been skipped from the list I'd given him to do on the 
  annual, and given that I experienced mag problems again almost 
  immediately after he diagnosed and replaced the L mag distributor 
  block, I am wondering if both rounds of problems look unrelated and 
  both rounds of charges look legitimate to the experienced eyes on our 
  list. Also was it legitimate to replace the ignition switch anyway, 
  just because it's "old"? If so, why didn't he say that or do that on 
  the annual inspection?

  After replacing a mag distributor block, wouldn't one test it and see 
  that the spark is "weak" at that time?

  I don't want to raise questions about his charges to him, if this 
  sequence looks plausible to your experienced eyes; it is very, very 
  difficult to find any A&Ps in SoCal who know Ercoupes, so I don't 
  want to tick this one off if these generally look ok. But I also 
  don't feel good about the mag problems not having been caught on the 
  annual (but don't know if they should have been????), given that he 
  did replace the L mag distributor block on it during the annual. And 
  I reallllllly don't feel good about how much my flying plans got 
  cancelled because of it, nor good about how many hours of my own 
  time, av gas, and car gas this cost. I need at least to understand 
  how this could happen so immediately after the Annual, before paying 
  the second bill. What do you all think?

  Thank you!

  Linda
  N3437H (Sky Sprite)
  L.A.



   

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