On Mon, Feb 13, 2006 at 01:12:55PM -0800, Ben Barrett wrote:
> Hah, that sounds about right -- but have you been to any institutions of
> "higher learning" where a BS automatically means anything about the
> degree-holder?? I have not! BS degree is more or less bullshhh... unless
> you're an HR person :(
There was a time when it did mean something. As I've said though, with few
exceptions, you no longer can expect a BA/BS degree in Computer Science to
mean that the person could even produce an expression tree generator, let
alone a C compiler. I remember fondly the course catalogs of several
universities when I was entering high school where a C compiler was a
common senior project for even the deadbeats. ;)
It is noteworthy that this was like 1992 where we were happy if our
classes were in the lab that had 386's with Turbo C++ 3 and Pascal 7.
> As for integer sort and binary search, I know very few programmers who would
> do this from memory in 30 minutes. Most I know (yes, outside my workplace
> too...) would use libraries as appropriate, and use references. I
> understand what you're saying about it being something of an indicator about
> "teachability"... but I think if there was a really good test for
> capabilities that fit well across the entire "programming marketplace" then
> none of this thread would be needed :)
Oh come now. You can't tell me that they couldn't work out how to do a
selection sort on paper. =) (Selection sort is the one that guarantees
that after one pass, element 0 contains the lowest sorting value.)
The major bits of complexity (file I/O or input parsing) were not part of
the exercise. I pretty much would pull one of about five such exercises
out of a hat before an interview, but nothing more complex than the sort
and search problem.
> Joseph, have you been enrolled in CS programs anywhere else? My experience
> is limited but better than the majority of students who went through a
> 4-year track right out of high school -- I started as EE at PSU back east,
> then took some time, then enjoyed LCC a bit before wrapping up the BS at UO
> in '01. I almost went to CWRU and/or CMU, too snooty for my tastes though.
I have not managed to complete a four year program, but I have been
enrolled in a couple of two year transfer things and have evaluated a
number of four year programs' course content.
> I'm sure others have feedback on this issue. For the disinterested, my
> apologies for a distinct lack of 'nix content... I've been helping out a
> bunch of folks who are slightly younger than myself, who don't have any
> collegiate degrees, who are perfectly capable and very interested in doing
> good work... and to some of them I've been advising avoiding a BS program.
> For some, I think it is worthwhile.
For all but the major corporations, real world experience trumps a fresh
BS/BA any day of the week. The level at which I start having expectations
of graduates is the masters level. I think the only reason the corporate
types want the degrees is so that they need only differenciate clueful and
compitent from clueless underachievers.
People without degrees tend to fit a much larger range of combinations of
cluefulness and ability. That's why I tended to want them to sit down and
write some code for me--it establishes that they have a certain level of
both kinds of skills.
--
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act,
but a habit."
-- Aristotle
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