W dniu 17.04.2014 13:59, M.-A. Lemburg pisze:
Unfortunately, we did not have much choice in recent selections, with
only a single submitted proposal.
It would be good to tell a bit more what caused that others didn't
submit proposals.
Well if someone is interested how things looked here is e-mail I've sent
to PSF on 1st of July 2013 explaining what actually happened and how
things looked like.
tl;dr
Originally the Call for (organizers) proposals was supposed to be
published in Autumn 2012 with deadline for proposals in Spring 2013.
It ended giving Call for (organizers) proposals in mid-May 2013 and
deadline in mid-June 2013. Many other issues along the way.
Dear Board of Python Software Foundation,
I'm writing to you because I believe that these kind of things shouldn't pass
silently and I also believe that this story should be a warning for others that
every part of Python community should be respected and treated seriously -
especially if we all want to keep status of that great community Jesse Noller
was talking about on PyCon US. The mail is about how we tried to apply for
organizing EuroPython and how we hit the wall several times during last two
years.
Below is an explanation of what actually happened:
1. January 2012 - Fabio Pliger informed on EP public mailing list that no one
applied for organizing EuroPython 2013/2014 and he is looking forward for
concrete and serious proposals [1]
2. Beginning of March 2012 - on our behalf Łukasz Langa (which for long was and
is still active in PyCon PL Program Committee) talked with Fabio Pliger on
PyCon US '12 about possibility of still applying for EuroPython 2013/2014.
Fabio asked to contact him and Laura Creighton about details. We've sent the
e-mail on 11th of March.
3. April 2012 - after a month of waiting we've finally got the answer that it
is too late to apply for EP2013/2014 and instead we should apply for
EP2014/2015. Laura Creighton suggested for us to talk on EP2013 about applying
for EP2014/EP2015
4. July 2012 - On EP I was informed by Fabio that there will be a call for
organizers in Autumn for EP2014/EP2015, so then the details will be provided.
Some of us arrived day before EP to help a bit Italian organizers.
On EP there was EPS (EuroPython Society) meeting where new EPS board has been
chosen. Results of the meeting can be read at [2], here is the especially
important part:
"The new board will put out a call for proposal for 2014, with a requirements
specification during the fall of 2012. A deadline for bids will be in the early spring of
2013. Organisers of Europython 2014 will be expected to take part in the organisation of
the 2013 conference, to learn more about how to arrange a conference on this scale."
5. Autumn 2012 - no CfP, no details
6. 6th January 2013 - I've asked Fabio when the CfP is released, because it is
already January and it was supposed to be published in autumn previous year.
I've got answer that in _a_few_days [3][4]
7. 8th February 2013 - I've asked again about CfP and no one even cared to
answer briefly how the situation looks like [5]
8. 22th February 2013 - I've asked (this time privately only Fabio) about when
I can expect call for EP2014/2015 and if there is a way I can help.
9. 5th March 2013 - I've received reply from Fabio that he can send me a raw
material of EP proposal details and with my help this can be prepared earlier.
I've agreed and asked to send me the raw document. The document wasn't send by
Fabio. [6]
10. 6th March - 15th May - silence again
11. 15th May - CfP (CfO) was announced
I'm sorry, but after so much time of waiting, me and the others had a right to
not treat seriously EPS to release any CfP (CfO) in 2013 at all. For example
I've made my own plans for May and 1st half of June (several trips including
one longer to Finland which was planned in April (booked the tickets) and I was
busy preparing the launch of two conferences websites). When the CfP came I was
really angry, because I've realized I won't have time to apply for it and
gather all the people again to send a serious proposal).
Fabio contacted me in the June and I've informed him how the situation looks
from our PoV and that we won't be able to submit a proposal in current
situation. Fabio's reply wasn't good, because not only it was unpleasant
(putting blame on us), but also contained untrue statement - that I did not
want to help in March and that I've sent reply that I won't help, which was not
truth [7]+[6]. Later Marc Andre-Lemburg informed that it must have been a
miscommunication suggesting that Fabio didn't understand well what I've written
[6]. We were asked to write how the CfP (CfO) rules can be changed in order for
us to send the proposal. I expressed my view on that:
"Current situation is really hard. It's after the deadline, we have currently busy
period and I would have to gather people that previously wanted to organize EP once again
(normal PyCon PL team is smaller as it is smaller conference - 200-300 attendees expected
this year). So I don't think it is realistic to prepare such proposal sooner than around
then end of July. I am also not sure if extending the period would be fair to other
groups that applied. It is hard situation overall."
and
=================
"Hi Marc,
I am aware of that fact, because I cooperate with many people from abroad (yes also when organizing
conferences). If someone states that I've denied to help on important matter when I clearly offered
help and confirmed it, then I don't know what to think about it (answering "yes" to a
question doesn't mean "no"). Just imagine for a minute that you are in my shoes and after
months of waiting, you hear such things. I guess you would probably also feel annoyed, by the whole
situation.
I also see another problem here. Let's assume that the board will give us the
extended period and we will submit a proposal. Imagine what can happen:
1. If our proposal would be accepted, then the other groups that have sent
proposals have a right to feel that the EPS board favoured us and changed the
rules to help us.
2. If our proposal wouldn't be accepted, then some of us might feel that
extending the period was only a way to please us in this situation and to end
our claims.
The situation is really hard and if the period will be extended then maybe the decision about
proposals should be left to some neutral entity such as PSF or people that aren't involved in
what happened here. There is this old saying "Nemo iudex in causa sua" (from Latin -
no one should be judge in his own cause)."
=================
I've received reply that board won't change the rules, because that would be
unfair (so why did they asked us to propose rules changing at all?). Anyway we
asked some very important questions, which the EPS board haven't answered at
all, like for example:
1. Why 11th March 2012 was too late to apply for organizing EuroPython 2013
when 15th June 2013 wasn't too late for EuroPython 2014.
2. In January Fabio stated that CfP will be announced in a few days. What was
EPS board doing all that time when few days turned into 4.5 months?
---
I was involved in organizing different events since 2004 and I'm aware and
understand that it is hard piece of work and requires a lot of effort. I know
how sometimes it is hard to keep all the deadlines, but the thing that concerns
me when looking at the whole case is how some part of community is not treated
entirely seriously by EPS. In our opinion it shouldn't be that way.
Best regards,
Filip
---
[1] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2012-January/008016.html
[2] https://ep2013.europython.eu/blog/2012/07/08/change-board-europython-society
[3] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-January/008195.html
[4] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-January/008196.html
[5] http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2013-February/008214.html
[6]
=======
Data: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 18:15:24 +0100
Nadawca: Filip Kłębczyk <fklebc...@gmail.com>
Adresat: Fabio Pliger <fabio.pli...@s3srl.com>
W dniu 05.03.2013 18:04, Fabio Pliger pisze:
Hi Filip,
Yes. We had a meeting few weeks ago but seems that we are all too busy
to write up a document with all the decisions made and the related
issues. If you want to help I can send you the raw material and you
could try to put a document draft that we can use to speed up things and
relase it as soon as we can.
What do you think?
Yes, please send me but that might be a problematic right now - some of
us are going to PyCon US and I doubt that we will manage to do a lot
work from there (especially that making phone calls to venues from there
will be not much possible).
Best regards,
Filip
PS. Btw. Please send e-mails to my gmail adress
=======
[7]
W dniu 12.06.2013 12:11, Fabio Pliger pisze:
If you
remember well I've asked if you and your team wanted to help us
preparing the CFP but you said no.
_______________________________________________
EuroPython 2014 - July 21th-27th in Berlin
EuroPython mailing list
EuroPython@python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
