EV Digest 2432
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DC-DC theory question
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Batteries for go-kart
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Aux. battery.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Request for VW Rabbitt adapter plate dimensions
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Batteries for go-kart
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Aux. battery.
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
by Matthew Muelver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Batteries for go-kart
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: ev on Mr. Rogers
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Charging stations
by "Chad Peddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Charging stations
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Optimal battery pack?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery pack design for "ultra-light" EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17)
by "Bruce Tucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Individual Battery Bar Graphs
by Brendan Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
by Matthew Muelver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Charging stations
by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Individual Battery Bar Graphs
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote
what are you planning?
com insert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 1:23 PM
Subject: DC-DC theory question
> Experts,
>
> What will happen if an output of isolated DC-DC fed from
> a battery string is connected to one of the batteries in the
> string? I realize if DC-DC output current is higher than
> total string current feeding DC-DC, the mid battery gets
> charged while others discharged.
It will charge that battery .
This is what Lee's battery balancer dose ( I believe)
along these lines what If you had 10 dc/dc (120 v pack)one on each battery
and had a way of turning them on of off enstead of relays and one dc/dc
converter ect. Or maybe one transfromer with 11 coils one for 120 and 10 for
12v . could even use an old computer power supply for the 120 drive, just
some thoughts
> I'm not debating point of doing this, I wonder if some
> instability or wrong feed back or anything wrong with
> magnetics of DC-DC's transformer is expected.
>
> |
> |-----------------------
> - |
> ---12V |
> | --------- |
> |----------| |----
> | 12V|out in|36V
> - ------| |----
> ---12V| | | |
> | | --------- |
> +----- DC-DC |
> | |
> - |
> ---12V |
> | |
> |-----------------------
> |
>
> Now, if all OK, what if output of isolated DC-DC connected to it's
> input and to the battery? Output voltage is the same as input
> (adjustable). I know, it will waste energy trying to "recharge" the
> whole pack it's fed from, but is it "stable" arrangement? No
> oscillations or something weird in DC-DC (assuming flyback topology)
> when I draw variable current from this pack (external load)?
>
well it won't charge the battery but I think this would be a good way to
mesure the eff of a dc to dc converter by mesuring the current draw on the
batterie . Putting an amp meter on may(probable) not give right readings .
I have a friend who is building a charger baiced on a dc buck converter set
up ( I am also but he is doing things a little different so I'm watching )
He has a pwm oscillation at 3k and verys the current by duty cycle (I am
imprested ). got it all ready and wants to test on my car ( has been very
tolarent of my jokes about how he could have bought a nice charger for a the
time he has spent so far) so I let him . hooks it up and truns it on e-meter
says 6 amps . I'm still imprested , it running and by verying the pwm the
current changes for 0 to 6 amps . I'm thing ,just need some voltage senceing
and thats a start (still nothing like a real charger but its the fun of
learning ) . He is not happy , ^ "6amps, the bad boy was making 15 " "ya
tom but look at all those part its got to go through, I think it working
great we just need more input voltage" tom dosen't think so and dosen't
have a big 12v transformer to add inline ,I want to use the arc welder but
that's out of the question . tom descides that the coil is the problem and
wants to take it out (???) . I don't thing this is such a good idea but we
do it any way . so now we have 120ac rectified and charging big cap and some
fets with my car bats on the reciving end . The coil and free wheeling
diodes are out but I figure it can't be any worse that a "bad boy
charger"{ He turns it on and the volt meter (cheep o dig) goes to 75
volts!!!! (was 130v) the e-meter was reading about 12 amps and seemed ok
but the volt meter was acting nutty . I'm thinking my tod dc/dc/ converter
or e-meter might blow and that the high frequence is realy doing somthing
,maybe bad ,.I tell him to trun it off . Now he's laughfing at me "lost
you nerve ay" . No just trying to keep the smoke in the parts. We did run
it for a while and nothing got hot so voltage of car was not being pulled
down to 75v (like that could happen ) . next time i'm unpluging my
e-meter/dc/dc converter any way/. I'll be interested to here what others
have to say on your "stablity" question
|
>
> Thanks for opinions,
> Replying off-line may be more appropriate,
>
> Victor
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
that a deal for 33 $ are you going for power or distance . those bats sound
like distance how many amps will you be pulling?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:21 AM
Subject: Batteries for go-kart
> Hello! I'm still working (or procrastinating) on my electric go-kart. I
need
> some batteries for it. The drive is a 48V forklift hydraulic motor with
> 250amp PWM controller. I found some SLA batteries that I can get fairly
> cheaply (33USD each). They are Remco RM12-60XU batteries, the specs can be
> viewed here:
>
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
>
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
>
ier_id=6008800544275&product_id=8818842745&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
> &point_id=3000000149745
> (Sorry for the huge link)
>
> Most important info is:
> Nominal voltage: 12
> Nominal capacity: 60 Ah (20 hours rate)
> Dimensions: 227L x 136W x 205H mm
> Weight: approx 18.5 kg
> Capacity characteristics
> Cut off voltage: 20 hours rate (3A); 60 Ah
> 1.75 v/c@ 25 degree Celsius: 10 hours rate (5.4A); 54 Ah
> 1.70 v/c: 5 hours rate (10.2A); 51 Ah
> 1.55 v/c: 1 hour rate (35A); 35 Ah
> 1.67 v/c: 15 min rate (113A); 28.25 Ah
> Charge voltage (constant):
> Bloc 13.5 to 13.8 float; 2.25 to 2.30 per cell
> Bloc 14.4 to 14.7 cycle; 2.40 to 2.45 per cell
> Discharge current amps (5 seconds maximum): 550
> Discharge current amps (maximum continuous): 250
> Maximum charge current: 18 A
> Approx final charge current (2.25v/c float): 0.13 (130mA)
> Approx final charge current (2.45v/c cycle): 0.65 (650 mA)
>
> These batteries are about the heaviest that I am willing to add to the
kart
> at a total of 74kg. The whole thing would probably weigh around 100kg with
> the batteries and no driver. This is my first EV so there is something
> glaring wrong with my choice of batteries please inform me :). I am
> basically asking for people's opinion here. I worried that they might be
too
> heavy but the range isn't going to be overly good even with these
batteries,
> is it?
>
> Thanks very much for any advice
> Dean
>
> PS
> I can also get a 50Ah battery that weighs around 14.8kg but I can't seem
to
> get and decent specs for it. Here's its huge link:
>
>
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
>
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
>
ier_id=6008802381254&product_id=8821682922&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
> &point_id=3000000149745
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just spent 8 bucks for a Panasonic LC-R125P1. 12v,5ah/20hr Rechargeable
Sealed Lead acid Battery at Excess Solutions. Found one that registered
12.42v Highest one I could find in the case and they have a bunch left.
Found only one that was down 11.72. Check before you buy.
Constant Voltage charge Voltage regulation
Cycle use : 14.5~14.9v (25 C)
initial current :less than 2.0 amps
Standby use : 13.6 ~13.8v (25 C)
Weight 4 pounds. Width3.5 inches x length 1.75 x 4" high
Nonspillable Matsushita Electric Industrial Co, Ltd.Made in U. S. A.
I figure this will make a good Aux. battery for the radio memory and alarm.
It should run the whole car but not for long. It just has a couple of .250
male quick disconnect for terminals. What size wire should I use and should
I maybe use some diodes to isolate this from the lights and connect the
radio and alarm directly to it. If the vac pump, lights, turnsignals, fan
windshield wipers and dome light are all on might it melt. I can put #10
wires to it. Is that enough. Should I use two of these batterys? My DC/DC
is set at 13.9v. I have the main 80amp wire available is that too much.
Should I just fuse it and if too many things are on the fuse will blow and
the DC/DC can do it all but not very well. Any suggestions. It has to be
DUH proof. The wife is driving the car also. I want to turn of the DC/DC
converter and not drain the pack. I am thinking the battery will be a
buffer when the DC/DC is working too hard. It happens when the lights are
on and the Vac pump is on and the turn signal makes the pump change rpm.
Sounds like RURURURURURURU every time the blinker blinks. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote
I wrote a note but them deleted it as you don't sound like your looking for
a "back yard fix" . You have a good coupler ? that's the hard part . If you
like I'm sure someone with one of my video's "convert your gas burner" would
forward it to you . (I'm out of them and my friends out of disk )In it I
show a way of alignment that I believe works very good but requires 2 plates
one on tranny one on motor .
e-mail me if you like
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy Reker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Request for VW Rabbitt adapter plate dimensions
Second try for information:
I am re-fabricating my adapter plate for an 8" Advanced DC motor to a VW
Rabbit 5 speed manual transmission. I believe I have had problems with the
center alignment of the motor to the transmission spline.
Does anybody have dimensions of the adapter plate holes, specifically the
two bell housing bushing locating holes in relation to the center 3.25" hole
for locating the motor?
I can locate the two bushing holes, but it is difficult to locate the center
spline hole. Someone must have done this and made a drawing. I'm checking
with adapter plate manufacturers now, but no luck so far. Any sources for
adapter plates that would share this information?
A pdf or AutoCad file would be great.
I would rather make my own than pay $650 - $750for an adapter kit. I have
the coupling.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve, I am leaning more towards distance because when you take the cart
to a parking lot for a zoom around you don't want it to go flat too quickly!
The trouble is I have no idea how many amps I will be drawing, basically
it's a "put it together and see what happens" thing. It would help to know
how many amps eh :) Is there an easy way to estimate this? Currently I'm
guessing it will draw about 50 or so amps at cruising speed?
Thanks
Dean
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Batteries for go-kart
> that a deal for 33 $ are you going for power or distance . those bats
sound
> like distance how many amps will you be pulling?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:21 AM
> Subject: Batteries for go-kart
>
>
> > Hello! I'm still working (or procrastinating) on my electric go-kart. I
> need
> > some batteries for it. The drive is a 48V forklift hydraulic motor with
> > 250amp PWM controller. I found some SLA batteries that I can get fairly
> > cheaply (33USD each). They are Remco RM12-60XU batteries, the specs can
be
> > viewed here:
> >
>
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
> >
>
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
> >
>
ier_id=6008800544275&product_id=8818842745&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
> > &point_id=3000000149745
> > (Sorry for the huge link)
> >
> > Most important info is:
> > Nominal voltage: 12
> > Nominal capacity: 60 Ah (20 hours rate)
> > Dimensions: 227L x 136W x 205H mm
> > Weight: approx 18.5 kg
> > Capacity characteristics
> > Cut off voltage: 20 hours rate (3A); 60 Ah
> > 1.75 v/c@ 25 degree Celsius: 10 hours rate (5.4A); 54 Ah
> > 1.70 v/c: 5 hours rate (10.2A); 51 Ah
> > 1.55 v/c: 1 hour rate (35A); 35 Ah
> > 1.67 v/c: 15 min rate (113A); 28.25 Ah
> > Charge voltage (constant):
> > Bloc 13.5 to 13.8 float; 2.25 to 2.30 per cell
> > Bloc 14.4 to 14.7 cycle; 2.40 to 2.45 per cell
> > Discharge current amps (5 seconds maximum): 550
> > Discharge current amps (maximum continuous): 250
> > Maximum charge current: 18 A
> > Approx final charge current (2.25v/c float): 0.13 (130mA)
> > Approx final charge current (2.45v/c cycle): 0.65 (650 mA)
> >
> > These batteries are about the heaviest that I am willing to add to the
> kart
> > at a total of 74kg. The whole thing would probably weigh around 100kg
with
> > the batteries and no driver. This is my first EV so there is something
> > glaring wrong with my choice of batteries please inform me :). I am
> > basically asking for people's opinion here. I worried that they might be
> too
> > heavy but the range isn't going to be overly good even with these
> batteries,
> > is it?
> >
> > Thanks very much for any advice
> > Dean
> >
> > PS
> > I can also get a 50Ah battery that weighs around 14.8kg but I can't seem
> to
> > get and decent specs for it. Here's its huge link:
> >
> >
>
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
> >
>
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
> >
>
ier_id=6008802381254&product_id=8821682922&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
> > &point_id=3000000149745
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is your DC-DC converter made to drive a load that has a battery in it?
Some will not tolerate this at all so be careful. If you can run your
DC-DC at 14.0 or a bit higher and use a big schottky diode , you might
be able to get a a good battery charge voltage and at least prevent the
battery from backfeeding the DC-DC. But batteries can burn up DC-DC
converters by becoming a load that needs recharging even after the
resistive load has gone away, and can put a DC-DC into current limit
longer if it has one, or overheat it if it doesn't. The round trip
efficiency of the aux battery doesn't help here. So if you want to add a
battery check with the manufacturer to make sure it is compatible. I
know that at least the Solectria DC-DC converters have battery charging
and non battery charging styles.
I would get LED turn and brake signals and interior lights to help
reduce the load and not add a battery. It is less risky and certainly
won't hurt your range. I can't offer a suggestion for radio memory, unfortunately.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> I just spent 8 bucks for a Panasonic LC-R125P1. 12v,5ah/20hr Rechargeable
> Sealed Lead acid Battery at Excess Solutions. Found one that registered
> 12.42v Highest one I could find in the case and they have a bunch left.
> Found only one that was down 11.72. Check before you buy.
> Constant Voltage charge Voltage regulation
> Cycle use : 14.5~14.9v (25 C)
> initial current :less than 2.0 amps
> Standby use : 13.6 ~13.8v (25 C)
> Weight 4 pounds. Width3.5 inches x length 1.75 x 4" high
> Nonspillable Matsushita Electric Industrial Co, Ltd.Made in U. S. A.
> I figure this will make a good Aux. battery for the radio memory and alarm.
> It should run the whole car but not for long. It just has a couple of .250
> male quick disconnect for terminals. What size wire should I use and should
> I maybe use some diodes to isolate this from the lights and connect the
> radio and alarm directly to it. If the vac pump, lights, turnsignals, fan
> windshield wipers and dome light are all on might it melt. I can put #10
> wires to it. Is that enough. Should I use two of these batterys? My DC/DC
> is set at 13.9v. I have the main 80amp wire available is that too much.
> Should I just fuse it and if too many things are on the fuse will blow and
> the DC/DC can do it all but not very well. Any suggestions. It has to be
> DUH proof. The wife is driving the car also. I want to turn of the DC/DC
> converter and not drain the pack. I am thinking the battery will be a
> buffer when the DC/DC is working too hard. It happens when the lights are
> on and the Vac pump is on and the turn signal makes the pump change rpm.
> Sounds like RURURURURURURU every time the blinker blinks. Lawrence
> Rhodes.....
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok everyone, help me out here.
The recent thread on Go-Kart EVs hit a little switch in my head, and
suddenly I remembered that I've got an old racing kart that I bought
when I was a kid stored "up North" in an Uncle's garage. The engine
was always kind of temperamental, thus the long-forgotten storage.
So now I've got ideas of reviving the little kart as an EV, and I've
got some questions. First off, I'll be doing this on a rather tight
budget. I'm thinking that I'll pick up one of the treadmill motors
that ASAS has for about $40 and slap a gear on it to drive the existing
rear axle (chain drive).
Now, I've got two Optima Yellow tops that I could use for the battery
pack, OR!!!! I've got a spare 144V NiMH Insight pack. :-o So, I
could have 24V of YT, or I could play around with the NiMH pack and
have anywhere from 6.5 Ah of 144V to 26 Ah of 36V. Ideas? Suggestions?
I'm totally baffled as to what to use for a controller. There's a guy
on eBay selling some low voltage Curtis units for about $45, which
seems to be in the right range for me. Or maybe I could do it old
school and just throw some switches to vary the voltage the motor sees?
TIA for advice/counseling!
Later,
Matt
--
My Favorite Quotes:
"God Bless America." - President George W. Bush
"Let's roll." - Todd Beamer
"From my cold dead hands!" - Charleton Heston, NRA President
"Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!" - President Ronald Reagan
"Words mean things." - Rush Limbaugh
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote
Here is something I've been thinking and wondering about. I have noticed
that the car weight/bat weight formula works very will for cars/trucks ,
(almost seem to work too well as most stuff never turns out like I figure )
so if you had 120lbs of bats in a 360 go kart 1/3 bar ratio this would mean
45mphs for about 60 miles (off the top of my head) . What I am wondering is
that as you get smaller in weight/power/wheel size do the miles get
"smaller" also? What I am saying here is a set up that's 1/10 the size of a
car my have miles that are 1/10 the size ( I don't believe this is the case
as I'm sure your cart will go more that 6 miles but maybe 1/2). Here is what
got me wondering about this . The little R/C cars that the kids play with
have a 1/3 bat/car ratio but they won't perform any were near what a ev car
will do .( I'm told 15 minits of run ) .Now this is far down the scale . Let
go the other way how about a bus with 1/3 ratio 21 ton car / 7 ton of bats
. My feeling is that it would go much further than the car (with same ratio)
just a feeling but maybe its a longer mile for the bus and a smaller mile
for the R/C toy. ?? I am wondering what the experts think here? What kind
of motor/ controller are you going to use and how fast (mphs) do you want to
go .
remember your fork lift is almost the same voltage and only uses 250 amps
(I'll bet more that 10 time the weight to)
( I would love some video of your project for my evtv program as Electric
go carts are a good way to get into EV's )
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW.grassrootsev.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 1:24 AM
Subject: Re: Batteries for go-kart
> Hi Steve, I am leaning more towards distance because when you take the
cart
> to a parking lot for a zoom around you don't want it to go flat too
quickly!
> The trouble is I have no idea how many amps I will be drawing, basically
> it's a "put it together and see what happens" thing. It would help to know
> how many amps eh :) Is there an easy way to estimate this? Currently I'm
> guessing it will draw about 50 or so amps at cruising speed?
>
> Thanks
> Dean
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Batteries for go-kart
>
>
> > that a deal for 33 $ are you going for power or distance . those bats
> sound
> > like distance how many amps will you be pulling?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 4:21 AM
> > Subject: Batteries for go-kart
> >
> >
> > > Hello! I'm still working (or procrastinating) on my electric go-kart.
I
> > need
> > > some batteries for it. The drive is a 48V forklift hydraulic motor
with
> > > 250amp PWM controller. I found some SLA batteries that I can get
fairly
> > > cheaply (33USD each). They are Remco RM12-60XU batteries, the specs
can
> be
> > > viewed here:
> > >
> >
>
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
> > >
> >
>
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
> > >
> >
>
ier_id=6008800544275&product_id=8818842745&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
> > > &point_id=3000000149745
> > > (Sorry for the huge link)
> > >
> > > Most important info is:
> > > Nominal voltage: 12
> > > Nominal capacity: 60 Ah (20 hours rate)
> > > Dimensions: 227L x 136W x 205H mm
> > > Weight: approx 18.5 kg
> > > Capacity characteristics
> > > Cut off voltage: 20 hours rate (3A); 60 Ah
> > > 1.75 v/c@ 25 degree Celsius: 10 hours rate (5.4A); 54 Ah
> > > 1.70 v/c: 5 hours rate (10.2A); 51 Ah
> > > 1.55 v/c: 1 hour rate (35A); 35 Ah
> > > 1.67 v/c: 15 min rate (113A); 28.25 Ah
> > > Charge voltage (constant):
> > > Bloc 13.5 to 13.8 float; 2.25 to 2.30 per cell
> > > Bloc 14.4 to 14.7 cycle; 2.40 to 2.45 per cell
> > > Discharge current amps (5 seconds maximum): 550
> > > Discharge current amps (maximum continuous): 250
> > > Maximum charge current: 18 A
> > > Approx final charge current (2.25v/c float): 0.13 (130mA)
> > > Approx final charge current (2.45v/c cycle): 0.65 (650 mA)
> > >
> > > These batteries are about the heaviest that I am willing to add to the
> > kart
> > > at a total of 74kg. The whole thing would probably weigh around 100kg
> with
> > > the batteries and no driver. This is my first EV so there is something
> > > glaring wrong with my choice of batteries please inform me :). I am
> > > basically asking for people's opinion here. I worried that they might
be
> > too
> > > heavy but the range isn't going to be overly good even with these
> > batteries,
> > > is it?
> > >
> > > Thanks very much for any advice
> > > Dean
> > >
> > > PS
> > > I can also get a 50Ah battery that weighs around 14.8kg but I can't
seem
> > to
> > > get and decent specs for it. Here's its huge link:
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.globalsources.com/gsol/GeneralManager?&catalog_id=2000000003844&d
> > >
> >
>
esign=clean&language=en&action=GetSupplier&page=supplier/ProductDetail&suppl
> > >
> >
>
ier_id=6008802381254&product_id=8821682922&action=GetProduct&action=GetPoint
> > > &point_id=3000000149745
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now, I've got two Optima Yellow tops that I could use for the battery
pack, OR!!!! I've got a spare 144V NiMH Insight pack. :-o So, I
could have 24V of YT, or I could play around with the NiMH pack and
have anywhere from 6.5 Ah of 144V to 26 Ah of 36V. Ideas?
Suggestions?
144V go kart = fast!
I'm totally baffled as to what to use for a controller. There's a guy
on eBay selling some low voltage Curtis units for about $45, which
seems to be in the right range for me. Or maybe I could do it old
school and just throw some switches to vary the voltage the motor > sees?
if you stay with 36V or so you could just use an old golf cart
resistive controller. Simple, cheap, and will keep you warm during
winter operation :-)
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We rented a Mr. Rogers video that also had an electric delivery vehicle
(stylized golf cart) that several characters drove around and heaped
praise upon.
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: josh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:48 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: ev on Mr. Rogers
>
>
> Nice bit on Mr. Rogers today with him driving an EV. Didn't
> recognize the brand, looked like sort of an
> originally-manufactured truck, very boxy, but not shoddy
> looking at first glance. He seemed to enjoy himself. The
> apparent owners of the company (I came in halfway
> through) were with him.
>
> jl
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote
When I was a kid I wanted a go cart soooo bad but instead my dad bought me
an arc welder ( old school ) . I build about 10 of them in my time before I
got my drivers license and had almost as much fun as I'm having now with
EV's ( gas cars were a bit of a let down and by 20 I was a bicycling
environmental nut ) . My pride and joys were always for sale and when some
neighbor hood kid would get his parents to pay for one I'd build another
with better parts . There was a good place for racing them and everyday
after school there would be hard core to the death go cart racing going on
!! Being the only kid with a welder I was making money helping other kids
make them so I could get the good parts for mine. Funny thing there never
was any parents around or the whole thing might have got shut down ( 5 to 15
carts driving like race car drivers by kids ) . Started with 3 hp edger
motors and ended with west ben 2 cycle (mine had 3 carbs ) Got to do it
again when my stepson was of age (before ev's) and starting them was never
any fun.
so my dream ev go cart..
144 volts yes yes yes ! forget the treadmill motor we want power. how about
two skill saw motors one on each wheel or If you got the live axel setup
(this was just becoming popular at my time and put my 4th cart on top for a
while) have them right to that . DCP controller ( could use it in a car
later) I may be getting carried away here. If you have an EV you could dump
charge it to . What really made it fun was all the other kids with there
carts . This is what I really miss and when I read about all you west
coasters getting together and all the EV fun you guys are having I feel left
out (my old ev's that I've sold are all far away now). My one EV friend (30
miles away) is making a life project of his "from the ground up ev" and I'll
be old and dead by the time it's on the road.
But there still plenty of time (?)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Muelver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
> Ok everyone, help me out here.
>
> The recent thread on Go-Kart EVs hit a little switch in my head, and
> suddenly I remembered that I've got an old racing kart that I bought
> when I was a kid stored "up North" in an Uncle's garage. The engine
> was always kind of temperamental, thus the long-forgotten storage.
>
> So now I've got ideas of reviving the little kart as an EV, and I've
> got some questions. First off, I'll be doing this on a rather tight
> budget. I'm thinking that I'll pick up one of the treadmill motors
> that ASAS has for about $40 and slap a gear on it to drive the existing
> rear axle (chain drive).
>
> Now, I've got two Optima Yellow tops that I could use for the battery
> pack, OR!!!! I've got a spare 144V NiMH Insight pack. :-o So, I
> could have 24V of YT, or I could play around with the NiMH pack and
> have anywhere from 6.5 Ah of 144V to 26 Ah of 36V. Ideas? Suggestions?
>
> I'm totally baffled as to what to use for a controller. There's a guy
> on eBay selling some low voltage Curtis units for about $45, which
> seems to be in the right range for me. Or maybe I could do it old
> school and just throw some switches to vary the voltage the motor sees?
>
> TIA for advice/counseling!
>
> Later,
>
> Matt
> --
> My Favorite Quotes:
> "God Bless America." - President George W. Bush
> "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer
> "From my cold dead hands!" - Charleton Heston, NRA President
> "Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!" - President Ronald Reagan
> "Words mean things." - Rush Limbaugh
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think you are going to want to check the power on the treadmill motors.
Every treadmill motor I have looked at was 90 or 110 volts and about 6 amps
and I do not think they would handle that for very long. That is less then
1 HP and you need a high voltage pack to get it on 24 volts you will be
lucky to move.
Car starter motors have been used for inexpensive go-karts with just a
contactor for a speed control (GO / NoGO). You can add a series resistor
for softer starts with a second or more contactor/s to short out the
resistor/s for a little better control. Heavy gage steel wire will work for
a resistor, coil it around something that will not burn and mount it where
it can get some air but you can not accidentally touch it.
The starter motor will get hot but usually the batteries will be dead before
it is too hot.
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Matthew Muelver
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 9:14 AM
To: EV List
Subject: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
Ok everyone, help me out here.
The recent thread on Go-Kart EVs hit a little switch in my head, and
suddenly I remembered that I've got an old racing kart that I bought
when I was a kid stored "up North" in an Uncle's garage. The engine
was always kind of temperamental, thus the long-forgotten storage.
So now I've got ideas of reviving the little kart as an EV, and I've
got some questions. First off, I'll be doing this on a rather tight
budget. I'm thinking that I'll pick up one of the treadmill motors
that ASAS has for about $40 and slap a gear on it to drive the existing
rear axle (chain drive).
Now, I've got two Optima Yellow tops that I could use for the battery
pack, OR!!!! I've got a spare 144V NiMH Insight pack. :-o So, I
could have 24V of YT, or I could play around with the NiMH pack and
have anywhere from 6.5 Ah of 144V to 26 Ah of 36V. Ideas? Suggestions?
I'm totally baffled as to what to use for a controller. There's a guy
on eBay selling some low voltage Curtis units for about $45, which
seems to be in the right range for me. Or maybe I could do it old
school and just throw some switches to vary the voltage the motor sees?
TIA for advice/counseling!
Later,
Matt
--
My Favorite Quotes:
"God Bless America." - President George W. Bush
"Let's roll." - Todd Beamer
"From my cold dead hands!" - Charleton Heston, NRA President
"Mr. Gorbechev, tear down this wall!" - President Ronald Reagan
"Words mean things." - Rush Limbaugh
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From the EAA web site I located this link:
http://www.cleancarmaps.com/
What are the differences in the fallowing types of charging stations?
Electric Inductive Small,
Electric Inductive Large,
Electric Conductive
Chad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chad,
All of these only work for commercial production vehicles, except as noted:
Inductive Small (Paddle) - Magnacharger 3rd generation
for Toyota RAV4 EVs, sold or leased in 2002 on
(don't know if the Nissan Hypermini uses this)
for any Large Paddle production EV with a small-to-large adapter
http://ev1-club.power.net/archive/010115/index.htm
Inductive Large (Paddle) - Magnacharger, most installations
for any production Inductive vehicle, leases only (none were sold)
GM EV1 (all gens), Chevrolet S10, pre-2002 Toyota RAV4 EV, Nissan
Altra
extremely limited vehicles (like 1 or 2 from Solectria)
The inductive have the charger in each charging station, and a paddle to
insert in a slot in the EV. Does a lot of communication, determining type
and quantity and size of batteries, and testing state of each battery, etc.
Charging station is 240vac, but since going through special interface, is
not AC voltage specific.
Conductive (Avcon) - "Avcon", although stations are manufactured by several
venders; Avcon Powerpak, EVII and possibly others.
for Honda EV+, Ford EV Ranger, Ford TH!NK City
option for Solectria Force, and possibly others
other vehicles can be modified with Avcon inlet
http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/prizm/ end of page
http://www.avconev.com/components.htm
can be used in 240vac conversions via special EAA adapter
http://www.eaaev.org/avcon1450.html
Only provides 240vac (sometimes 208vac). No provisions for extracting
120vac. Requires a properly power-corrected charger or many not respond
well. Bruce Parmenter has adapted by buffering with many feet of extension
cords (see his various writeups).
These are the standards installed for public usage. Hope this helps.
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
From: Chad Peddy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Charging stations
>From the EAA web site I located this link:
http://www.cleancarmaps.com/
What are the differences in the fallowing types of charging stations?
Electric Inductive Small,
Electric Inductive Large,
Electric Conductive
Chad
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Johanna and Stan wrote:
> We are working on our first EV (a converted Oldsmobile Firenza) and
> are looking for people's experience as to what could be the optimal
> battery pack to get a good range, low maintenance, and good
> reliability. The engine and trunk space are rather limited so a
> smaller battery size would be good. The controller is rated for 144
> Volts.
Batteries are pretty dense, and available in a wide range of sizes. You
will probably be limited more by weight than space. The main problem
with space is that it is often divided into awkward sizes, making some
creativity necessary in making your battery boxes.
If you can clear out the engine bay and trunk space, you can make some
dummy batteries out of cardboard boxes, and try packing them in various
ways.
If it is your first conversion, I would recommend lead-acid batteries.
They are cheaper, more forgiving of abuse, and far more available.
Range is fundamentally determined by battery weight; not type or
voltage. Decide what range you need, and that picks the total battery
weight.
Floodeds are cheaper and last longer than sealed batteries. Sealed can
give you faster accelleration and higher top speeds. Figure out what you
expect in the way of performance, and then pick the battery type
accordingly.
Once you have picked the type of battery and know how much weight you
can carry, you can look for a specific model. This will determine your
pack voltage. As long as you pick the motor and controller to match,
total pack voltage is not significant.
If you already have a 144v controller, that will lean you toward 12v
batteries. As a rule, 12v batteries have the shortest life, and so cost
more per mile.
I hope this helps. Once you define your goals (performance, range, cost,
etc.), battery selection becomes much easier.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Walker, Lesley R wrote:
> I've recently started helping out a high school team that's
> planning to participate in the 2004 Sunrace in Australia.
> http://www.sunrace.com.au/
Great! What a fascinating project that will be!
> They're building a vehicle for the ultra-light EV category.
> The current plan is that they'll be running a Lynch 48v motor
> with a Curtis 1209b controller.
The Lynch is a very good motor. The Curtis is pretty good, too. It won't
limit efficiency, which is probably the main thing. The main drawback of
the Curtis is that it doesn't do regen (which might have helped range).
> The rules:
> They're allowed a total of three battery packs, each of which
> can be used once per day. Each pack is limited to 2500 Wh and
> 62.5kg, and the batteries must be sealed. The rules on the
> website are not entirely clear, but I believe the permitted Wh
> capacity is based on the manufacturer's stated C/20 capacity.
> The pack is allowed to be overweight by up to 5% or half a
> battery, whichever is less.
Odd rules.
> The pack:
> Given that we have a 48v motor, I think we need a 48v pack, or
> maybe we should go higher?
A little higher won't hurt; it will let you maintain 48v at the motor
even as the batteries sag. A lot higher will probably only increase
controller losses, and risk "hot rodding".
> Batteries:
> The sealed batteries that I know about (and I believe I should
> be able to get them in this country) are the Trojan SG series
> and of course Optima Yellow-Tops.
I would think that lead-acid batteries would be non-competitive. Most of
the teams I hear about use exotic high-tech batteries. But lead-acid is
cheap, if you're on a budget.
> YTs are too big - we couldn't make a 48v pack out of them without
> breaking the size limits.
Three YTs are 59.3kg; pretty close to the 62.5kg limit. 36v is not an
unreasonable voltage. Also, nothing says you can't saw a single cell off
a YT, or use a boost converter to raise the voltage.
> The Trojan SG50s would make a 48v pack of exactly the right weight
> and capacity, so they would seem to be the way to go.
I know nothing about this battery. Be advised that you simply have to
TEST the battery yourself, in your actual application. Specs don't tell
the whole truth.
> Are there any other sealed batteries the team should consider?
Stupid question; do they have to be rechargeable? :-) It is much cheaper
and easier to get high-capacity primary batteries.
> Charging:
You can't really decide on a charger until you have picked a battery.
Given that it's for a race, the smartest charger could well be a person
with a lot of knowledge, a variac, and some meters.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a final reminder that the next meeting of the Ventura County EAA will
be held:
Saturday Nov 23th 10am-Noon-ish
Borders Books Cafe, 125 W Thousand Oaks Blvd
Thousand Oaks, CA
Hope to see you there!
Bruce Tucker
Secretary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My current battery pack is showing signs of premature failure after only 18
months. So I built a set of 20 expanded scale LED bar graph battery
monitors to monitor each battery under operating conditions. I finally
finished the installation last night. It seems to be working well and
should help me extend the life of the pack. It is very easy to see if a few
batteries are performing differently than the others. A bit of a pain to
build and install but I still think I recommend the idea.
Brendan Kirby
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thursday, November 21, 2002, at 02:20 PM, 1sclunn wrote:
144 volts yes yes yes ! forget the treadmill motor we want power. how
about
two skill saw motors one on each wheel or If you got the live axel
setup
(this was just becoming popular at my time and put my 4th cart on top
for a
while) have them right to that . DCP controller ( could use it in a car
later) I may be getting carried away here. If you have an EV you
could dump
charge it to
So the treadmill motor won't do what I want? (That being SPEED!!!!)
What do you mean by "skill saw motors"? Any idea where to get them?
My Go-Kart has a solid rear axle, driven by a chain. Is that what you
mean by live axle? With this setup I think that only one motor is the
way to go.
Yeah, a DCP. How about a Raptor 1200? Coming back to reality.....
This is going to be a budget project. I've recently acquired the
batteries, and since I've already got the go-kart I'd like to spend no
more than $100-$150 to finish the deal. If that means a $100 motor and
a resistive controller, then I guess that's what I'll do.
Don't forget, the 144V pack is only 6.5 Ah. While I don't see wanting
to trek across town with this thing, it would be nice if it could give
a few miles, or at least half an hour, of fun before it needs to be
charged.
Later,
Matt
--
If you're reading this, chances are your either:
A. A Honda freak, just like me.
'01 M.C. Blue Insight 5 spd. #1898, 57.1 LMPG @ 24,900 mi.
B. A Mac Addict, just like me.
Dual-1GHz PowerMac G4, iBook 800MHz 12.1"
or
C. An EV freak, just like me!
:-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
+ Conductive (Avcon) - "Avcon", although stations are manufactured by
+ several venders; Avcon Powerpak, EVII and possibly others.
Chad, et al:
Keep in mind that traditional "plugs" also fall under the
"conductive" category. In terms of California charging stations, an
overwhelming majority will only provide the AVCON for conductive
charging. That was their overzealous attempt to try and standardize on
a type of connector (and a pathetic connector nonetheless). But keep
in mind that traditional plug/receptacle connections (like a household
5-15 for example) are 'conductive' and can be found in many charging
stations, including a large majority of the 60ish charging stations
out here in Arizona.
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
pager.voicemail. 602.422.7996. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So how did you build these?
James
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Brendan Kirby
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 3:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Individual Battery Bar Graphs
My current battery pack is showing signs of premature failure after only 18
months. So I built a set of 20 expanded scale LED bar graph battery
monitors to monitor each battery under operating conditions. I finally
finished the installation last night. It seems to be working well and
should help me extend the life of the pack. It is very easy to see if a few
batteries are performing differently than the others. A bit of a pain to
build and install but I still think I recommend the idea.
Brendan Kirby
---
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