EV Digest 2437

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size.  $1.00 group 
buy.
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Effective Regen or Over-Unity?
        by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) RE: Effective Regen or Over-Unity?
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  4) NIMH pack - random thoughts
        by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Other Rices' on List, from the Colonies an' Stuff.
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size.  
 $1.00 group buy.
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
        by "Tony McCormick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: EVs on Ebay/now X1/9
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  9) Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
        by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Fast charge "gas" stations......
        by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) Re: EVs on Ebay
        by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Effective Regen or Over-Unity?
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
        by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: Effective Regen or Over-Unity?
        by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) For those familiar with springs
        by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) test <n/m>
        by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Useful link
        by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by "Chad Peddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: test <n/m>
        by "Chad Peddy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
        by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Fast charge "gas" stations, Blue Meanie, & Portland Cops!
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
There has been some discussion as to what type of connector to use.  Since I
am melting connections at even 12 amps as registered on the B & W charger I
thought I would move up to a 30/50 Dryer plug as recommended by Bruce
EVangel.  Lots more surface area than the twistlock.  It also seems to be
the plug of choice at the RV parks.  So do you have many different
connectors to fit different situations?  I have only charged at home and
once in an emergency I charged at a friends with a little 110 adapter that I
made up.  I take it John that you are using the 250v 30 amp twist which just
has one prong a little fatter that the very simular 125v 30amp connector.  I
found a bunch of them(250v 30 male and recessed) for $1.00 (that too much?
If you tell these surplus guys it is too little they will be glad to charge
more)at Excess Solutions(I'd be glad to go down and buy them up).  It has a
plastic housing (one happened to be clear plexiglass type) and needs to be
grounded but my charger is grounded so that should be ok.  Could my little
splice of 12 gauge wire cause heating?  I just noticed that my male
connector is on a piece of 12/3 going to the charger.  I am going to wire
the car with 8/3.  Hope that takes care of that problem that way.  My filler
is in the wheel well.  It gets dirty there.  What did you use for the back
side to protect from the elements?  There always seems to be more questions.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle


> Hello to All,
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > Can't seem to find male receptacles for the electric gas filler trick.
> > Would one just take a female and insert copper or brass to change the
female
> > to male?  Or just find a larger electrical supply?  Lawrence Rhodes....
>
> I went to a local Portland electrical supply house 'Platt Electric' and
ordered the
> chassis mount recessed flange type L6-30 male twist lock...this is the one
I wrote about
> in my post 'What are the Odds?' about how this electrical connector slid
right into my 30
> year old Datsun's gas filler pipe hole and its perimeter screw holes all
lined up
> perfectly with the car's three perimeter screw holes meant for the gas
filler pipe flange.
> Platt wanted to hit me full retail on this item at $36, but I was able to
use a good EVer
> friend's business account and got it for a much more reasonable $23. You
probably won't
> find this specialty connector at anything other than an electrical supply
house, the kind
> that sells wholesale to electrical contractors and such.
>
> Both the male and female 'cord end' L6-30 twist locks can be found at
either Home Depot or
> Low's home improvement  type stores, because these connectors are quite
common, usually
> referred to as 'generator connectors' since they're often used on the
5kw-10kw sized gas
> generators.  Home Depot handles the 'Leviton' brand...very high quality
but a lot higher
> retail price than other brands, but they want a king's ransom for the
L6-30 female at
> $32...yikes! At Roy LeMeur's suggestion, I took a look at Lows. They offer
the very high
> quality 'Eagle' brand and their L6-30 female is just $19, with the male
L6-30 at just $17.
> For my multiple EV setup here, I needed to buy quite a few of the female
ends, and while
> at the sale counter, after I had pointed out to the sales person that they
were charging
> me too little at $17 for the female end (that was actually the male end
price), they
> argued with me that 'they knew their prices' and insisted I was wrong, so
what the heck, I
> bought a couple more than I had planned on getting!
>
> See Ya.......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Nov 2002 at 0:38, 1sclunn wrote:
My personal feeling ( I may be getting into hot water here ) is that regen
> is what people who don't have it think they want.

David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
IMO, regen also improves the overall driving feel of the car. I never have much cared for the freewheeling effect of a gasser with an automatic transmission, and a series DC EV with no regen makes me even more uncomfortable. It feels to me as if it's not quite in control going down hills, even if it really is.
I don't have regen and I do think I want it... but for exactly the reasons that David cites; "free" energy for extra range would be a bonus rather than the primary reason.

Perhaps it is from having always owned a manual transmission ICEs before my EV (and disliking automatics when driving them), but I am concerned about having to ride the brake pedal so much going down hills in my truck.

Of course it is sort of academic as buying a production EV truck is impossible and finding a combination of sep-ex or AC drive system with enough power and finding an advanced (NiCad) battery pack in a matching voltage is also pretty near impossible.

_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Nov 2002 at 0:38, 1sclunn wrote:
> My personal feeling ( I may be getting into hot water here ) is that regen
 > is what people who don't have it think they want.

David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> IMO, regen also improves the overall driving feel of the car.  I never
have 
> much cared for the freewheeling effect of a gasser with an automatic 
> transmission, and a series DC EV with no regen makes me even more 
> uncomfortable.  It feels to me as if it's not quite in control going down 
> hills, even if it really is.

Jim Coate wrote:
I don't have regen and I do think I want it... but for exactly the 
reasons that David cites; "free" energy for extra range would be a bonus 
rather than the primary reason.

Perhaps it is from having always owned a manual transmission ICEs before 
my EV (and disliking automatics when driving them), but I am concerned 
about having to ride the brake pedal so much going down hills in my truck.

Of course it is sort of academic as buying a production EV truck is 
impossible and finding a combination of sep-ex or AC drive system with 
enough power and finding an advanced (NiCad) battery pack in a matching 
voltage is also pretty near impossible.

---
>From my experience driving some production EVs, the additional benifit
(besides getting some amps back) is to reduce wear on your brake pads.
Trying to stop a heavy EV with just mechanical brakes on the hills takes a
lot. To add motor load through regen certainly helps.

-Ed T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:30 PM 11/22/2002 -0800, Edward Ang wrote:
How about a hybrid pack with these 4Ah Nimh?  They are on sale, 10 pieces
for $19.95.
http://www.bydusa.com/product.asp?0=217&1=227&3=167
Or you could get 2, 6v 4AH packs for $18.95!
http://www.bydusa.com/product.asp?0=217&1=227&3=169

So, for $260, you could have 156V 4Ah.  Or, for $250, you get 150V 4Ah.
Of course they may not even have this many available, since it is a closeout, limited quantity item.

It would be interesting to build an entire pack out of these. (or the 8AH D cells)
Since they don't work parallel very nicely, you would need a special controller/charger setup.
Hmm, a set of clock synchronized 20A controllers - one for each string. Along with a set of 1A or 2A chargers.

--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: James Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: Other Rices' on List, from the Colonies


> Hi Bob - so much to say - where do we begin!
>

    Hi Jim;

   Nice to hear from ya! Welcome aboard! We have a lot of fun on here.
   You may have wondered into Mike Chancy's EV album? Where a buncha EV 's
are there for your enjoyment.

> Yes indeed, I only subscribed last week - and get excited every morning at
the
> tales of electric conversions on some fantastic cars - Fiat X1/9's are a
passion
> of mine and Michael Hoskinson's Citroen DS had me grinning all day - post
some
> pictures Mike!
>
> The trains over here have really suffered at the hands of a privatised
rail
> network - lots of money lost and a network that hasn't been useful for
comuting
> since so many of the railway lines were closed in the 60's.
>
      Yeah, you seem to tread of too many mishaps on the news, about railing
in the UK. You guys invented the trains, seems like thay could get it
together. Amtrak is same sort of thing. We;'re in the "Wreck of the Month
plan here. Usually not our fault: Dizzy barge captain drives his tow into a
bridge, drives off without saying anything. Next train just happens to be
Amtrak's. Most of it goes in the drink, because the bridge is out of
alignment, derailing the train , and derailed, train tears the bridhge down
ALL the way Mobile Alabama, over 50 die. Georgia, with annoying frequency,
log truck finds itself T-boned by a train, he didn't see or didn't want to
wait for. They don't build trains like they used to, it derails, making the
evening news. Gas and propane trux seem to defy the right of safe passage at
grade crossings. In one of those the train passengers DID get out but over a
dozen waiting WITH the truck, didn't in the resulting fire and
explosion.Train, lucky for it, got through the impact area, but doused in
gas, burned in to heavy melting scrap, pretty quickly.

   Enough people here that havent ridden the Japanese or French RR's and
raved that the trains run on time and are fast, to get a word in at
Congress, opposite of PROgress, that we would like a system like it here.
But it would cost, maybe a few nuclear submarines, to buil;d a new hyspreed
RR here. Sorta the same interests here that don't want EV's running around,
too. May cut gas and oil consumption. At the rate we are going, are there
gunna be ANY air polution rules in effect by the end of the Bush Dynasty
here in US. If I was King or Emporer here, couldn't be Prez, too many
special interest groups. Would have an emergency program to build electric
200 mph lines here. Think of all the people it would put to work, in USA,
and they could take a ride in it ,when done. Nobody ahas asked me if I 'd
like a submarine ride, but I did help pay for it. View wouldn't be as nice
as from the Empire Builder's Glass top car, which is STILL running.
Shameless plug for Amtrak, and I DO work there. It is a national treasure to
be able to travel across our beautiful country, at SEE leval.Albiet it is
relatively slow, faster in 1912 than today, but who's in a hurry.Trains are
like Cruise ships, out west, anyhow.

   Here in the close in East, cities are close together, Boston, Washington
Could be done in two hours, with a French Atlantique Trainset from the TGV
collection, only about 400 miles as the crow flies, and they go 200 mph,
simple math.People flock to our new Acela train, but it is only half hour
faster than the regular train, but it is shiny, comfortable, and :Weee! New
train smell. But it can only open up for about 18 miles of its 400 mile
route. Most of the time yur bending it around the same old curves the
steamers had to deal with 100 years ago. Like in England, I'm sure!? Like
giving everybody Porsches and Farrari's to get through NYC's glatial cross
town traffic faster.Ya do far faster on a 10 speed, I DO ride one in NYC.
> Current price of fuel in the UK is rediculous by your standards - at the
moment
> a litre of 95 octane unleaded is roughly 0.76 - or $4.34 per US gallon
(give or
> take a few cents...) - most of it is tax, which seems to disapear into the
void
> of politicians pockets instead of being spent on improving the road
network.  I
> run a Toyota Supra 2.8i on 97 or 98 RON which tends to be 4 pence dearer
per
> litre too - if the engine dies - it's going electric!
>
      Gas here is rediculously cheap here about a buck and a half, most
everywhere. I drove out to OR and CA last summer, to Woodburn, and many
scenic places , friends, and stuff I havent done lately. In a ICE that got
in the 40's on the hiway. Woulda been cheaper to fly Jet Blue, my one
speeding tickeyt alone woulda covered most of the fare, there. But it was a
vacation for me, money wasn't the object, wanted to see a bit of the USA
while I still could. Not getting any younger, ya know.
> I'm actually quite impressed by the weight of your VW - 1500kg almost
exactly,
> isn't that different to a modern mk5 Golf - albeit one equipped with
> electrically operated leather seats, air conditioning and airbags (in case
youfall asleap in there.

    I know! Seems like all cars get HEAVIER every year.No nice 1500 lb
Datsuns like John Wayland's Meenie and Zombie, to convert, anymore. Along
this theme of late, on gete , wouldn't ya think a Lincoln Town car or Caddy,
make a useful conversion, because you could put LOTS of batteries aboard,
and the aerodynamics are better than a truck??Just don't have any laying
around to convert, although those Big cars do go cheap, used. Put the truck
brakes ans susopension, as needed to hold things up. Works for ships, bigger
they are, the further they go, fuel wise, if they don't break in half and
sink off Spain.

> I'm a great believer that we should be making our transport smaller rather
than
> larger - but the trend, sadly is going in the opposite direction -
comparing
> your car to the current model is just not sensible, as in size terms the
VW Polo
> is bigger  :^(  SUV's over here take the form of 4 wheel drives like the
BMW X5
> and Range Rover all driven by mums on the the school run (1 child only of
> course) - there are plenty of them, despite the running costs - and
someone
> really needs to explain to me why a parent who has two children, needs a 7
> seater MPV!
>
      Or why a 100 lb woman needs a 6000 lb SUV to go to the store get her
lottery tickets and cigerettes, and 20 bux worth of gas to get through the
day. maybe one kid as ya say.

> Interestingly, Coventry University, where I'm studying, has a Peugeot EV
van and
> an EV 106 - buying one over here is possible - or you can cross the
channel and
> bring one over as a personal import.
>
     But you CAN do that. Guess there is a hidiously large Inport duty?
SOMEt hing that stops yu UK guyz from doing it?

> You say you hope the far east might come up with the goods in terms of
getting
> affordable and useful EV's on the market - I aim to be at the forefront of
> development...  I'm graduating in June, and if my projects go well, you
may be
> seeing a British EV being marketed across the US and Europe. As everyone
has
> been pointing out - the main problems at the moment lay with batteries and
hence
> range...  Fingers crossed Lithium-Ion batteries (or maybe something
better!)
> will become affordable...
>  Well, that's the whole key thing. Batteries. DUH! Prey for it! More power
to you. Sorry, sorta slipped out! We, here, sorta have our hopes pinned on
EVER cells, a Chinese built battery some of our Listers are running in their
cars. Teast pilots, so to speak.
> There are so many advantages of electric vehicles over IC engined
vehicles - for
> example:  If the underside of a car is made completely smooth (covering
chassis
> rails, sump, exhausts, fuel tanks and other lumpy bits), the Coefficient
of drag
> can be reduced by as much as 0.1 (Hucho, Aerodynamics of Road Vehicles,
fig
> 5.73) - if you're covering up the exhausts and leaving less x-sectional
area for
> cooling - this can cause some hot sticky problems - no such problem with
an
> EV...
>   Yes ! For sure. GM's EV-1 was done right, that way, and they know it.
That's why they are reeling them back, off lease, to destroy,. before they
catch on, and consumers are beating down their factory doors to get more.

> So if we can make recharging a little quicker and build cars that can do
300
> miles on a charge - we will win the day (once you've driven 200 miles - a
1 hour
> top charge would make a nice break anyway!)
>
    Right on! How much do you want to spend on a charger with cables the
diameter of yur thumb, to slam power back into the car's hungery cells? If
EV's cought on, "Gas Stations" would have a pump with those massive cables
and connecters so you could charge, EVen my current EV, in15 minutes. I
havent seem any of my local petrel stops rushing to install all this because
Bob has an EV.All this technology, like the TGV train, is here and now, if
it was wanted here.

    My two Watts worth

    Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,

Lawrence Rhodes wrote:

> I take it John that you are using the 250v 30 amp twist which just
> has one prong a little fatter that the very simular 125v 30amp connector.

Yes, that's the one, and yes, it is very similar to the 125v 30amp connector.

> I found a bunch of them (250v 30 male and recessed) for $1.00 (that too much?
> If you tell these surplus guys it is too little they will be glad to charge
> more) at Excess Solutions (I'd be glad to go down and buy them up).  It has a
> plastic housing (one happened to be clear plexiglass type) and needs to be
> grounded but my charger is grounded so that should be ok.

OK, begging mode....care to get as many as you can and let me buy some from you? I'll 
take
10 of them, if you can spare that many. On my end, it is the other way around, in that 
I
have a bunch of high quality 'Hubbell' brand recessed flange mount male twist lock 
125V,
20 amp connectors, with the matching cord-end female twist locks, too, all  new in 
their
boxes, all that I got for free, but these are too low a voltage and current rating for 
my
needs...anybody need some?

Lawrence, cound me in on a group buy!

See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:48:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: For those familiar with springs
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Jeremy, you're using Optimas, or floodeds in the CRX?
Thanks for the info!

--- Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The spring constant would be different if the spring
> was on a different 
> spot on the lower control arm.  Wouldn't it?
> There are lots of cheap sources for springs for the
> civics.  I have 
> civic wagon springs in my crx.
> 
>                       -Jeremy
> 
> 
> On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 05:36 PM, Bob
> Bath wrote:
> 
> > In a couple of months, I'll be pulling parts from
> the
> > Rabbit and transferring them to a Civic.  It seems
> to
> > me that the Civic chassis will be (roughly) the
> same
> > amount heavier than the Rabbit was.  So (in
> theory),
> > the Civic could use the same springs as the Rabbit
> > did.
> >    Now, I haven't done any measurements, but a
> couple
> > of  things could screw this money and resource
> savings
> > up:
> > 1)  the diameter of the springs are not standard
> > between the two cars.
> > 2)  the length of the springs are completely
> > different.
> > 3)  the way the springs mount is different.
> > As mentioned, about 128V of batts. 68x16 lbs =
> 1100
> > lbs. is going to need roughly the same spring
> constant
> > value.
> >
> >    Anyone have any other thoughts, favorite
> > manufacturers, etc?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> 


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--- End Message ---

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