EV Digest 2438
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: For those familiar with springs
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Help With Repairing Traction Motor
by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Electric Vehicle Conversion Auto Car Kit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric Vehicle Conversion Auto Car Kit
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) Re: For those familiar with springs
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size. $1.00
group buy.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fast charge "gas" stations, Blue Meanie, & Portland Cops!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size. $1.00
group buy.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size. $1.00
group buy.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size. $1.00
group buy.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size. $1.00 group
buy.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire size. $1.00 group
buy.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Help With Repairing Traction Motor
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Effective Regen or Over-Unity?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EVAA 2002 EV Conference
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Request to drop the WWJD thread...
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Plasma Boy Lives!
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Plasma Boy Lives!
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Too typical of this list... many people with lots of
different solutions to one problem, equally
knowledgeable & valuable points. Thanks, Chad! (;-p
I always think of springs first, then dampers, but I
suppose you're right, that I can use the damper as a
better spring factor. Next question is, how would
this compare cost-wise? to be determined...
Thanks again.
--- Chad Peddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All of the bellow are probably true.
> -VW: German, CIVIC: Japan
>
> It would be a lot better and easier to go with air
> shocks or air bags.
> Nearly any pick-em up store would have them.
>
> I do not see why more EV don't have air ride. You
> boost the load carrying
> capacity without altering the safety of the
> vehicle.
>
> Chad
>
>
>
> > In a couple of months, I'll be pulling parts from
> the
> > Rabbit and transferring them to a Civic. It seems
> to
> > me that the Civic chassis will be (roughly) the
> same
> > amount heavier than the Rabbit was. So (in
> theory),
> > the Civic could use the same springs as the Rabbit
> > did.
> > Now, I haven't done any measurements, but a
> couple
> > of things could screw this money and resource
> savings
> > up:
> > 1) the diameter of the springs are not standard
> > between the two cars.
> > 2) the length of the springs are completely
> > different.
> > 3) the way the springs mount is different.
> > As mentioned, about 128V of batts. 68x16 lbs =
> 1100
> > lbs. is going to need roughly the same spring
> constant
> > value.
> >
> > Anyone have any other thoughts, favorite
> > manufacturers, etc?
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
>
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
My Jet ElectraVan quit. It turned out to have used up its brushes at
less than 20,000 km. The second surprise was that I needed to remove
the motor to replace the brushes. However, since the brushes failed
somewhat catastrophically, I needed to remove the motor anyhow to
inspect it.
What I found was that two of the brush holders were damaged by arcing,
and the insulated board that supports the holders was burned somewhat
around them, but still seems solid. 2 of the 8 brush springs were
damaged as well.
The commutator has only a small amount of surface pitting from the
arcing, and does not have any grooves. I think that it should clean up
just fine with sandpaper.
I checked all the adjacent bars on the commutator with a small DC
current and earphones across the field. I was careful to check each
pair in the same place with respect to the field and I heard the same
volume of click for each pair.
I would prefer to replace the entire brush assembly, but depending on
parts availability, I could live with cleaning it up and just replacing
the brushes and the two springs.
So my questions are:
1) Should I pack the motor up and take it to an expert, or is
my diagnosis sound?
2) I live in Phoenix, AZ. Can anyone recommend a local expert?
3) Where do I get parts for this motor (see below)?
The motor is:
GE Model 5BT1346B38 20.9 HP Series 90 volt, 184 Amp
GR8-87-CR 4707 RPM ENCL BV
CL.H Duty 1 HR 140 degrees C
Thanks,
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yup, that was state of the art 30 years ago.
These aircraft starter/generators were actually the state of the art in
the 1940s. By the 1970s they had gotten onto the surplus market, and
were available cheap (just what budding EV enthusiasts were looking
for!)
> As I understand it the efficiency of aircraft starter/generators is
> pretty low
They were optimized for light weight, not high efficiency. Still, their
efficiency isn't that bad; around 70% compared to 80% for Advanced DC
motors.
People's driving habits were another reason for low efficiency with
these motors. They are designed for high speeds: 4000-8000 rpm. Most
people tended to shift like they still had a gasoline engine, running
them at 2000 rpm. Thus they drew lots of current and ran inefficiently.
> ...and not much low end torque to boot.
The pure generators didn't have much torque (characteristic of shunt
motors), but the starter/generators sure did! They had the extra series
field winding that allowed them to make serious torque! My 1974 Datsun
pickup with a 30v 500amp Jack & Heinz aircraft starter-generator could
easily burn rubber. Fred Saxby's Crosley EV could lift the front tires
off the ground.
> And it even include a two speed series parrallel speed controler.
The shunt field is a big advantage with these motors. It allows good
results with very simple controllers.
> On the other hand it does provide dirt simple regen.
Since they are built as generators, they really excel at high regen
currents. Probably *too* high!
> If you are looking for a low end starter
> kit, and you can get it for about $400, it might be worth it.
I agree. If the price is right, it's a great set of "training wheels".
> the damn car sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it runs, cuz the built
> in fan spins up so fast when the car goes, that it can't not.
They generally don't have any built-in fan. You have to use an external
blower (and a BIG one at that!) for cooling.
And yes, they are noisy. The noise comes from the huge commutator, sized
for 1000 amp peak currents, and the high rpm they want to run at. They
do indeed sound like a big vacuum cleaner (or jet engine).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a few of those aircraft starter generators for sale if anyone is
interested.
Here are the specs and prices:
1) G.E. 2CM88D5, 30 v, 400 amp, 3000-8000 rpm
New from Burden Surplus, $ 400 plus shipping
2) Jack & Heintz G23-4BT
30v, 400 amp, 3800-8000 rpm
Used, $ 150 plus shipping
3) Delco Aircraft Starter Generator s/n 344-c-55
30 v, 400 amp, 3700-8000 rpm, shaft needs a snap lock ring.
Used, $ 75 plus shipping
Bill, Glastonbury, CT 06033
23 Nov 2002 21:05:30 -0800 Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Yup, that was state of the art 30 years ago.
>
> These aircraft starter/generators were actually the state of the art
> in
> the 1940s. By the 1970s they had gotten onto the surplus market, and
> were available cheap (just what budding EV enthusiasts were looking
> for!)
>
> > As I understand it the efficiency of aircraft starter/generators
> is
> > pretty low
>
> They were optimized for light weight, not high efficiency. Still,
> their
> efficiency isn't that bad; around 70% compared to 80% for Advanced
> DC
> motors.
>
> People's driving habits were another reason for low efficiency with
> these motors. They are designed for high speeds: 4000-8000 rpm. Most
> people tended to shift like they still had a gasoline engine,
> running
> them at 2000 rpm. Thus they drew lots of current and ran
> inefficiently.
>
> > ...and not much low end torque to boot.
>
> The pure generators didn't have much torque (characteristic of shunt
> motors), but the starter/generators sure did! They had the extra
> series
> field winding that allowed them to make serious torque! My 1974
> Datsun
> pickup with a 30v 500amp Jack & Heinz aircraft starter-generator
> could
> easily burn rubber. Fred Saxby's Crosley EV could lift the front
> tires
> off the ground.
>
> > And it even include a two speed series parrallel speed controler.
>
> The shunt field is a big advantage with these motors. It allows good
> results with very simple controllers.
>
> > On the other hand it does provide dirt simple regen.
>
> Since they are built as generators, they really excel at high regen
> currents. Probably *too* high!
>
> > If you are looking for a low end starter
> > kit, and you can get it for about $400, it might be worth it.
>
> I agree. If the price is right, it's a great set of "training
> wheels".
>
> > the damn car sounds like a vacuum cleaner when it runs, cuz the
> built
> > in fan spins up so fast when the car goes, that it can't not.
>
> They generally don't have any built-in fan. You have to use an
> external
> blower (and a BIG one at that!) for cooling.
>
> And yes, they are noisy. The noise comes from the huge commutator,
> sized
> for 1000 amp peak currents, and the high rpm they want to run at.
> They
> do indeed sound like a big vacuum cleaner (or jet engine).
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard
> Cohen
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 192 volts of optimas. 11 in the back on either side of the
suspension beam and 5 up front (plus 1 for an accessory battery).
The suspension on the 87 and earlier crx is very different from the
later civics.
It is actually riding a little high with the wagon springs in the back.
I have a set of springs for the rear that I had wound when I had
trojan scs 225s in it. It was quite a bit heavier then (especially in
the back).
If anyone wants them they can have them.
-Jeremy
On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 09:48 PM, Bob Bath wrote:
Jeremy, you're using Optimas, or floodeds in the CRX?
Thanks for the info!
--- Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The spring constant would be different if the spring
was on a different
spot on the lower control arm. Wouldn't it?
There are lots of cheap sources for springs for the
civics. I have
civic wagon springs in my crx.
-Jeremy
On Saturday, November 23, 2002, at 05:36 PM, Bob
Bath wrote:
In a couple of months, I'll be pulling parts from
the
Rabbit and transferring them to a Civic. It seems
to
me that the Civic chassis will be (roughly) the
same
amount heavier than the Rabbit was. So (in
theory),
the Civic could use the same springs as the Rabbit
did.
Now, I haven't done any measurements, but a
couple
of things could screw this money and resource
savings
up:
1) the diameter of the springs are not standard
between the two cars.
2) the length of the springs are completely
different.
3) the way the springs mount is different.
As mentioned, about 128V of batts. 68x16 lbs =
1100
lbs. is going to need roughly the same spring
constant
value.
Anyone have any other thoughts, favorite
manufacturers, etc?
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus Ò Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus ñ Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I gotta ask what size wire you use from the filler to the charger? I am
going up to #8. I am tired of melting plugs. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire
size. $1.00 group buy.
> Hello to All,
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > I take it John that you are using the 250v 30 amp twist which just
> > has one prong a little fatter that the very simular 125v 30amp
connector.
>
> Yes, that's the one, and yes, it is very similar to the 125v 30amp
connector.
>
> > I found a bunch of them (250v 30 male and recessed) for $1.00 (that too
much?
> > If you tell these surplus guys it is too little they will be glad to
charge
> > more) at Excess Solutions (I'd be glad to go down and buy them up). It
has a
> > plastic housing (one happened to be clear plexiglass type) and needs to
be
> > grounded but my charger is grounded so that should be ok.
>
> OK, begging mode....care to get as many as you can and let me buy some
from you? I'll take
> 10 of them, if you can spare that many. On my end, it is the other way
around, in that I
> have a bunch of high quality 'Hubbell' brand recessed flange mount male
twist lock 125V,
> 20 amp connectors, with the matching cord-end female twist locks, too, all
new in their
> boxes, all that I got for free, but these are too low a voltage and
current rating for my
> needs...anybody need some?
>
> Lawrence, cound me in on a group buy!
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All you have to do is get Starbucks to put an add in the paper or on TV for
"FREE fuel fill up with Coffee purchase."
I expect that would attract some attention.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 10:12 AM
Subject: Fast charge "gas" stations, Blue Meanie, & Portland Cops!
> I just had to answer this email! I am opening it on my spank'n new Mac
iBook, as I am
> sitting in my EV that is currently taking on a relatively fast charge
(28.7 amps into its
> 156V pack) at the EV charging station at 2nd and Salmon at the '1 World
Trade Center'
> block, which is also one of Portland's many, many Starbucks locations. I
just went in, got
> one of those $4 coffee drinks, and by the time I drink it, my ride will
indeed, be full of
> snort and ready to go again. Your timing on this email couldn't have been
any better, and
> it is totally right on cue!
>
<Snip>
>
> Still having too much fun with my EV...
>
> See Ya.......John Wayland
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about the Dryer plug option? Anybody using them or just as an adapter
to the twist? Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire
size. $1.00 group buy.
> Hello to All,
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > I take it John that you are using the 250v 30 amp twist which just
> > has one prong a little fatter that the very simular 125v 30amp
connector.
>
> Yes, that's the one, and yes, it is very similar to the 125v 30amp
connector.
>
> > I found a bunch of them (250v 30 male and recessed) for $1.00 (that too
much?
> > If you tell these surplus guys it is too little they will be glad to
charge
> > more) at Excess Solutions (I'd be glad to go down and buy them up). It
has a
> > plastic housing (one happened to be clear plexiglass type) and needs to
be
> > grounded but my charger is grounded so that should be ok.
>
> OK, begging mode....care to get as many as you can and let me buy some
from you? I'll take
> 10 of them, if you can spare that many. On my end, it is the other way
around, in that I
> have a bunch of high quality 'Hubbell' brand recessed flange mount male
twist lock 125V,
> 20 amp connectors, with the matching cord-end female twist locks, too, all
new in their
> boxes, all that I got for free, but these are too low a voltage and
current rating for my
> needs...anybody need some?
>
> Lawrence, cound me in on a group buy!
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you look at
http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.php?id=nec/unformatted/poster&type=u&title
=Commercial/Industrial%20Wiring%20and%20Raceway%20Chart a 30 amp breaker
needs #10 wire and the largest continuous draw is limited to 24 amps.
A 50 amp breaker needs #8 wire and is good for 40 continuous amps.
If the plug is melting, it is probably a plug problem. If the wire is
getting hot, it is a wire problem.
The only problems with putting in larger wire are cost, weight, bend radius
and conduit size.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire
size. $1.00 group buy.
> I gotta ask what size wire you use from the filler to the charger? I am
> going up to #8. I am tired of melting plugs. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:53 AM
> Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire
> size. $1.00 group buy.
>
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > > I take it John that you are using the 250v 30 amp twist which just
> > > has one prong a little fatter that the very simular 125v 30amp
> connector.
> >
> > Yes, that's the one, and yes, it is very similar to the 125v 30amp
> connector.
> >
> > > I found a bunch of them (250v 30 male and recessed) for $1.00 (that
too
> much?
> > > If you tell these surplus guys it is too little they will be glad to
> charge
> > > more) at Excess Solutions (I'd be glad to go down and buy them up).
It
> has a
> > > plastic housing (one happened to be clear plexiglass type) and needs
to
> be
> > > grounded but my charger is grounded so that should be ok.
> >
> > OK, begging mode....care to get as many as you can and let me buy some
> from you? I'll take
> > 10 of them, if you can spare that many. On my end, it is the other way
> around, in that I
> > have a bunch of high quality 'Hubbell' brand recessed flange mount male
> twist lock 125V,
> > 20 amp connectors, with the matching cord-end female twist locks, too,
all
> new in their
> > boxes, all that I got for free, but these are too low a voltage and
> current rating for my
> > needs...anybody need some?
> >
> > Lawrence, cound me in on a group buy!
> >
> > See Ya......John Wayland
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have part numbers? I don't recall seeing any chassis mount male plugs
with the dryer pattern (NEMA 10-30).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire
size. $1.00 group buy.
> What about the Dryer plug option? Anybody using them or just as an
adapter
> to the twist? Lawrence Rhodes...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:53 AM
> Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire
> size. $1.00 group buy.
>
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > > I take it John that you are using the 250v 30 amp twist which just
> > > has one prong a little fatter that the very simular 125v 30amp
> connector.
> >
> > Yes, that's the one, and yes, it is very similar to the 125v 30amp
> connector.
> >
> > > I found a bunch of them (250v 30 male and recessed) for $1.00 (that
too
> much?
> > > If you tell these surplus guys it is too little they will be glad to
> charge
> > > more) at Excess Solutions (I'd be glad to go down and buy them up).
It
> has a
> > > plastic housing (one happened to be clear plexiglass type) and needs
to
> be
> > > grounded but my charger is grounded so that should be ok.
> >
> > OK, begging mode....care to get as many as you can and let me buy some
> from you? I'll take
> > 10 of them, if you can spare that many. On my end, it is the other way
> around, in that I
> > have a bunch of high quality 'Hubbell' brand recessed flange mount male
> twist lock 125V,
> > 20 amp connectors, with the matching cord-end female twist locks, too,
all
> new in their
> > boxes, all that I got for free, but these are too low a voltage and
> current rating for my
> > needs...anybody need some?
> >
> > Lawrence, cound me in on a group buy!
> >
> > See Ya......John Wayland
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's what I have been finding. I can't find a male. It seems that it
would have to be made custom. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would stay with a standard product. IF you break it, you have a long down
time to get another one made. I found a long list of plugs and inlets at
http://www.panelcomponents.com/pcc/scripts/wsisa.dll/p80list.p
If you search for the word 'inlet', there are 17 choices. This page has
mechanical drawing links for each part.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: L6-30 or 50 receptacle or Dryer plug and questions of wire
size. $1.00 group buy.
> That's what I have been finding. I can't find a male. It seems that it
> would have to be made custom. Lawrence Rhodes....
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike;
Try Warfield Electric in Chicahgoland, Frankfort, Ill. They work on DC
motors, Big time. Never saw so many DC motors in one place anywhere else,
when I did a factory tour this summer. They have a great website so ya might
call or E mail them with the specs of the GE motor ya got. I'm sure that
they would have all the brush hardware, or at least the brushes yu need.
If ya decide to let them go through the motor, the shipping ,via UPS,
could be pricy, but their turn around time is great, Rewound my ADV 9"
armature in a few daze. No motor shopp here in CT wanted anything to do with
it. Said " Just throw it away and get a new one, costya more to fix than
it's worth" ASbout 300 bux had me back on the road again.
When I'm happy with a product or service I'll rave on about it. Warfield
exceeded expactations.
I think just warfield electric. com will take you there.Call them, talk
to Jerry, or whoEVer. They have it together on motors.
Another thread; Springs. Talk to Spring Specialties in St Marys Kansas.
They made me a set of front coils for my Rabbit. I just told them that I was
adding about 300 lbs to the front "axle" About right, I'm a tad high, but
I'm happy with it. Car doesn't LOOK like 3300 lbs, now.
That's it for the shameless promotions, but we need and have a database
of Good People and Places to do biz with. Happy hunting, keep us posted.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael A. Radtke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 9:53 PM
Subject: Help With Repairing Traction Motor
> Hello,
>
> My Jet ElectraVan quit. It turned out to have used up its brushes at
> less than 20,000 km. The second surprise was that I needed to remove
> the motor to replace the brushes. However, since the brushes failed
> somewhat catastrophically, I needed to remove the motor anyhow to
> inspect it.
>
> What I found was that two of the brush holders were damaged by arcing,
> and the insulated board that supports the holders was burned somewhat
> around them, but still seems solid. 2 of the 8 brush springs were
> damaged as well.
>
> The commutator has only a small amount of surface pitting from the
> arcing, and does not have any grooves. I think that it should clean up
> just fine with sandpaper.
>
> I checked all the adjacent bars on the commutator with a small DC
> current and earphones across the field. I was careful to check each
> pair in the same place with respect to the field and I heard the same
> volume of click for each pair.
>
> I would prefer to replace the entire brush assembly, but depending on
> parts availability, I could live with cleaning it up and just replacing
> the brushes and the two springs.
>
> So my questions are:
>
> 1) Should I pack the motor up and take it to an expert, or is
> my diagnosis sound?
>
> 2) I live in Phoenix, AZ. Can anyone recommend a local expert?
>
> 3) Where do I get parts for this motor (see below)?
>
> The motor is:
>
> GE Model 5BT1346B38 20.9 HP Series 90 volt, 184 Amp
> GR8-87-CR 4707 RPM ENCL BV
> CL.H Duty 1 HR 140 degrees C
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted...
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
> About the only thing we know for sure about Jesus is
> he couldn't stand the Priests, living high on the
> backs of the believers. So he turned over the money
> changers table where the Jewish priests taxed the
> Jews, including Jesus, 10%. For this he was killed.
John 5:18 states that there were two reasons:
1) Breaking the Sabbath (healing a man who had been an invalid for 37 years)
and
2) Calling God His Father (making Himself equal with God).
> Since he was only known to a couple of thousand
> people before he died and a following of only couple
> of hundred he needed little range so a 50 mile range
> EV would have done him well.
He fed 5000 men with five barley loaves and two fish in John 6. He fed 4000
men in Matthew 15:32-39 with seven loaves and a few fish. Both times there
were women and children present that were not counted. The number of people
that were present in these two incidents alone far exceed "a couple
thousand."
> > They were fishermen and would need a
> > vehicle which could
> > tow their boat and carry fish and fishing eqipment.
The boat was only used in the Sea of Galilee. Beaching it would have been
adequate for them. Taking it out of the water was unecessary. With oars
being the only propulsion, the boat could probably be flipped over and
carried up the beach by a dozen men.
I recall only one time that Jesus did not walk or ride in a boat. That was
the triumphant entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. He rode "the colt of a
donkey" (Matt 21:2) "on which no one had ever sat" (Mark 11:2).
According to Judges 5:10, Israel's royalty rode donkeys. When the people saw
Jesus entering Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, they gave Him a royal welcome with
the carpet of clothing and palm branches. They expected Him to take over the
city and rule as king.
They were disappointed and angry at Jesus enough that they shouted for his
crucifixion later that week.
Enough Facts. Here is my opinion:
My guess is that Jesus would either walk, ride a boat or ride a donkey. He
would not drive.
If He needed to go further, I would expect Him to be there instantly like He
did with the boat in John 6:21 and He did personally in John 20:19-29.
I think he has something like a Star Trek transporter for getting around. He
would not drive.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I forget what some of you EV'er have to live with . Hills , cold weather ,
. There are hills in Florida , they go over the rail road tracks ( joke )
Florida is flat and warm ,EV heaven but were are the EV's ?? I can just see
me going down some big hill with my trail (5800lbs ) and no power brakes .
Yes I would be singing a different tune . I don't much use the brakes I
time the lights and take my foot off the go pedal way before the turns . I
use about 1/2 the ahs I did when I started driving my EV. I want so see how
many miles I can get on a bat pack . I haven't heard much talk about series
motors and regen . on the other hand it sound like all AC drives have regen
(the kind that really stops the car) .
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 7:12 AM
Subject: RE: Effective Regen or Over-Unity?
> On 23 Nov 2002 at 0:38, 1sclunn wrote:
> > My personal feeling ( I may be getting into hot water here ) is that
regen
> > is what people who don't have it think they want.
>
> David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> > IMO, regen also improves the overall driving feel of the car. I never
> have
> > much cared for the freewheeling effect of a gasser with an automatic
> > transmission, and a series DC EV with no regen makes me even more
> > uncomfortable. It feels to me as if it's not quite in control going
down
> > hills, even if it really is.
>
> Jim Coate wrote:
> I don't have regen and I do think I want it... but for exactly the
> reasons that David cites; "free" energy for extra range would be a bonus
> rather than the primary reason.
>
> Perhaps it is from having always owned a manual transmission ICEs before
> my EV (and disliking automatics when driving them), but I am concerned
> about having to ride the brake pedal so much going down hills in my truck.
>
> Of course it is sort of academic as buying a production EV truck is
> impossible and finding a combination of sep-ex or AC drive system with
> enough power and finding an advanced (NiCad) battery pack in a matching
> voltage is also pretty near impossible.
>
> ---
> >From my experience driving some production EVs, the additional benifit
> (besides getting some amps back) is to reduce wear on your brake pads.
> Trying to stop a heavy EV with just mechanical brakes on the hills takes a
> lot. To add motor load through regen certainly helps.
>
> -Ed T
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
I think I am just going to go for the Exposition Dec 12 and the Ride 'n'
Drive Dec 13. Some of the session were tempting, but not enough to justify
the fees in my case.
Hopefully we can meet thursday or Friday. What sessions are you planning to
attend?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:13 AM
Subject: EVAA 2002 EV Conference
I'll be staying at the Greenfield hotel 2mi North of the Westin Diplomat
convention center for those who would like to get together December 9-13
Hollywood Beach, Florida. See everyone there, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, so where did the phase "he walked on water" come from ?
On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 01:01:17 -0800 "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Comments inserted...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
>
>
>
> > About the only thing we know for sure about Jesus is
> > he couldn't stand the Priests, living high on the
> > backs of the believers. So he turned over the money
> > changers table where the Jewish priests taxed the
> > Jews, including Jesus, 10%. For this he was killed.
>
> John 5:18 states that there were two reasons:
> 1) Breaking the Sabbath (healing a man who had been an invalid for
> 37 years)
> and
> 2) Calling God His Father (making Himself equal with God).
>
> > Since he was only known to a couple of thousand
> > people before he died and a following of only couple
> > of hundred he needed little range so a 50 mile range
> > EV would have done him well.
>
> He fed 5000 men with five barley loaves and two fish in John 6. He
> fed 4000
> men in Matthew 15:32-39 with seven loaves and a few fish. Both times
> there
> were women and children present that were not counted. The number of
> people
> that were present in these two incidents alone far exceed "a couple
> thousand."
>
> > > They were fishermen and would need a
> > > vehicle which could
> > > tow their boat and carry fish and fishing eqipment.
>
> The boat was only used in the Sea of Galilee. Beaching it would have
> been
> adequate for them. Taking it out of the water was unecessary. With
> oars
> being the only propulsion, the boat could probably be flipped over
> and
> carried up the beach by a dozen men.
>
> I recall only one time that Jesus did not walk or ride in a boat.
> That was
> the triumphant entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. He rode "the
> colt of a
> donkey" (Matt 21:2) "on which no one had ever sat" (Mark 11:2).
>
> According to Judges 5:10, Israel's royalty rode donkeys. When the
> people saw
> Jesus entering Jerusalem on Palm Sunday, they gave Him a royal
> welcome with
> the carpet of clothing and palm branches. They expected Him to take
> over the
> city and rule as king.
>
> They were disappointed and angry at Jesus enough that they shouted
> for his
> crucifixion later that week.
>
> Enough Facts. Here is my opinion:
>
> My guess is that Jesus would either walk, ride a boat or ride a
> donkey. He
> would not drive.
>
> If He needed to go further, I would expect Him to be there instantly
> like He
> did with the boat in John 6:21 and He did personally in John
> 20:19-29.
>
> I think he has something like a Star Trek transporter for getting
> around. He
> would not drive.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It doesn't seem too EV related and has lots of bandwidth this week.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Glad you're OK, John! Lucky Plaz, livin onna ej...
Here's a little enhanced speculation:
Convert all the electrical energy dumped by the battery (up to the point
where the light burst) into kinetic energy in the mass of the lens, and
see how fast it would go:
Electrical energy (EE):
For one battery, inrush was 50A x 12V...
Multiply that by 17 batteries...
Multiply that by, let's say 50 milliseconds? to blow the lamp...
EE = 51 Joules.
Mass (M) of the 7" dia lens:
38.5 sq-in x .15" thick? x about .1 lb/cu-in...
M = .26 kg
Kinetic energy is 1/2(MV^2) and would equal EE if ALL the energy went
into the lens:
Velocity (V) = square root of 2 x EE/M...
V = 44 MPH!
Now in reality, we don't know what fraction of the energy went into
moving the lens. The back half of the lamp flew in the opposite
direction. But I'd speculate that a vary large part of the energy
dissipated up to the time the lens blew went into the lamp (vaporizing
the filament and dissipating that heat by expanding the resulting gas,
and making light). AFTER the lamp blew, the energy went into melting
things and raising Wayland's hair.
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Wayland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 11:52 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Plasma Boy Lives!
>
>
> Hello to All,
>
> Ye-a-h.....It seems that every once in a while, I revert back
> to a more primitive brain function, back into that dark and
> murky Plasma Boy thing I'm known for, and in spite of all
> that I've learned about EV electrical safety and caution from
> all of my 'adventures', it just sometimes, somehow, all goes
> out the window!
>
> I was inside the Wayland EV race car tow rig, my funky but oh
> so dependable '89 Ford Aerostar van, doing a bit of battery
> maintenance and testing of the dump charge pack, 17 Optima
> YTs in series for a 204V pack. I was using one of my favorite
> quickie load tester devices, a 7 inch round, 300 watt
> aircraft landing light, a beefy sealed beam light that has a
> 50 amp initial surge that quickly ramps down to about a 25
> amps of steady current draw. I've got a few of them around
> that are set up with nice 8 gauge wires and 50 amp alligator
> clips that allow the leads of a DVM to be inserted, so that
> clipped to a 12V battery, I can watch the battery sag.
>
> I had been going around to each of the 17 batteries, clipping
> on the ACL and timing the battery's discharge and charting
> the beginning and ending voltages. I was at the end of the
> string close to the van's open side sliding door, where the
> beginning and ending batteries are, and where the 1/0 gauge
> leads go to the 350 amp Anderson quick disconnect, when I had
> a major brain fart! For some unexplained reason, I had left
> one of the ACL's alligator clips still connected to the
> negative terminal of battery #1, and then I simply and calmly
> reached over to battery #17 and clipped-on the other
> alligator to its positive
> terminal.....BOOM!!!!!!FLASH!!!!!!ZORCHHHH! (yes, all
> simultaneously). Talk about a major flash bulb effect, both
> from the ACL lit up at 17 times it rated voltage, and from
> the intense arc that melted off half the alligator clip!
> There was a heavy chest impacting concussion inside the van
> that would put all of the combined Wayland subwoofers to
> shame, that hurt my body and made my ears ring for about half
> and hour later, as the thick convex glass lens of the ACL was
> cleanly blown off and it shot across the van like some kind
> of cannon load, striking the van wall and cracking into two
> halves! To add to the amusement factor, the reflector side of
> the ACL flew out of my hands and landed upside down onto a
> pile of paper towels I had been wiping the batteries with,
> and with 204 DC volts applied, the thick wire standoffs that
> used to support the lamp's robust tungsten filament, were now
> bridged by a bright electric arc (my version of a carbon arc
> lamp) which instantly caught them on fire, which spread to a
> large bath towel that was also in the van. So, there I was,
> ears ringing, blown back against the van wall in a kind of
> stunned state, with my eyes still seeing a big spot, with
> nearby things on fire!
>
> I grabbed the other alligator lead and pulled it loose to
> break the arc (the other one was welded onto the battery post
> with bits of molten lead here and there), lifted the
> reflector up off the burning stuff, and then snuffed out the
> flames with the rest of the towel...whew!
>
> Anyway, it seems my alter ego is alive and well :-)
>
> See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
> Anyone care to analyze how a sealed beam light can turn into a cannon?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoops! Typo! That's actually 510 Joules, not 51. Which makes 140 MPH!!!
I'm doing a contract for NASA right now, the scaling errors must be
rubbing off on me...
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Tylinski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 11:26 AM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
> Subject: RE: Plasma Boy Lives!
>
>
> Glad you're OK, John! Lucky Plaz, livin onna ej...
>
> Here's a little enhanced speculation:
>
> Convert all the electrical energy dumped by the battery (up
> to the point where the light burst) into kinetic energy in
> the mass of the lens, and see how fast it would go:
>
> Electrical energy (EE):
> For one battery, inrush was 50A x 12V...
> Multiply that by 17 batteries...
> Multiply that by, let's say 50 milliseconds? to blow the
> lamp... EE = 51 Joules.
>
> Mass (M) of the 7" dia lens:
> 38.5 sq-in x .15" thick? x about .1 lb/cu-in...
> M = .26 kg
>
> Kinetic energy is 1/2(MV^2) and would equal EE if ALL the
> energy went into the lens: Velocity (V) = square root of 2 x
> EE/M... V = 44 MPH!
>
> Now in reality, we don't know what fraction of the energy
> went into moving the lens. The back half of the lamp flew in
> the opposite direction. But I'd speculate that a vary large
> part of the energy dissipated up to the time the lens blew
> went into the lamp (vaporizing the filament and dissipating
> that heat by expanding the resulting gas, and making light).
> AFTER the lamp blew, the energy went into melting things and
> raising Wayland's hair.
>
> - GT
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Wayland [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 11:52 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Plasma Boy Lives!
> >
> >
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > Ye-a-h.....It seems that every once in a while, I revert back
> > to a more primitive brain function, back into that dark and
> > murky Plasma Boy thing I'm known for, and in spite of all
> > that I've learned about EV electrical safety and caution from
> > all of my 'adventures', it just sometimes, somehow, all goes
> > out the window!
> >
> > I was inside the Wayland EV race car tow rig, my funky but oh
> > so dependable '89 Ford Aerostar van, doing a bit of battery
> > maintenance and testing of the dump charge pack, 17 Optima
> > YTs in series for a 204V pack. I was using one of my favorite
> > quickie load tester devices, a 7 inch round, 300 watt
> > aircraft landing light, a beefy sealed beam light that has a
> > 50 amp initial surge that quickly ramps down to about a 25
> > amps of steady current draw. I've got a few of them around
> > that are set up with nice 8 gauge wires and 50 amp alligator
> > clips that allow the leads of a DVM to be inserted, so that
> > clipped to a 12V battery, I can watch the battery sag.
> >
> > I had been going around to each of the 17 batteries, clipping
> > on the ACL and timing the battery's discharge and charting
> > the beginning and ending voltages. I was at the end of the
> > string close to the van's open side sliding door, where the
> > beginning and ending batteries are, and where the 1/0 gauge
> > leads go to the 350 amp Anderson quick disconnect, when I had
> > a major brain fart! For some unexplained reason, I had left
> > one of the ACL's alligator clips still connected to the
> > negative terminal of battery #1, and then I simply and calmly
> > reached over to battery #17 and clipped-on the other
> > alligator to its positive
> > terminal.....BOOM!!!!!!FLASH!!!!!!ZORCHHHH! (yes, all
> > simultaneously). Talk about a major flash bulb effect, both
> > from the ACL lit up at 17 times it rated voltage, and from
> > the intense arc that melted off half the alligator clip!
> > There was a heavy chest impacting concussion inside the van
> > that would put all of the combined Wayland subwoofers to
> > shame, that hurt my body and made my ears ring for about half
> > and hour later, as the thick convex glass lens of the ACL was
> > cleanly blown off and it shot across the van like some kind
> > of cannon load, striking the van wall and cracking into two
> > halves! To add to the amusement factor, the reflector side of
> > the ACL flew out of my hands and landed upside down onto a
> > pile of paper towels I had been wiping the batteries with,
> > and with 204 DC volts applied, the thick wire standoffs that
> > used to support the lamp's robust tungsten filament, were now
> > bridged by a bright electric arc (my version of a carbon arc
> > lamp) which instantly caught them on fire, which spread to a
> > large bath towel that was also in the van. So, there I was,
> > ears ringing, blown back against the van wall in a kind of
> > stunned state, with my eyes still seeing a big spot, with
> > nearby things on fire!
> >
> > I grabbed the other alligator lead and pulled it loose to
> > break the arc (the other one was welded onto the battery post
> > with bits of molten lead here and there), lifted the
> > reflector up off the burning stuff, and then snuffed out the
> > flames with the rest of the towel...whew!
> >
> > Anyway, it seems my alter ego is alive and well :-)
> >
> > See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
> >
> > Anyone care to analyze how a sealed beam light can turn
> into a cannon?
> >
>
--- End Message ---
