EV Digest 2439

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Fast charge "gas" stations, Blue Meanie, & Portland Cops!
        by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) E.V  M G midgets ????
        by "jack gretta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: E.V  M G midgets ????
        by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Request to drop the WWJD thread...
        by josh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
        by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) new address test
        by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Crazy Go-Kart EV ideas
        by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) RE: E.V  M G midgets ????
        by Jeremy Maus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) test 2
        by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
        by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) tercel and 911 update long 
        by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: EVAA 2002 EV Conference
        by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) Re: Request to drop the WWJD thread...
        by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Help With Repairing Traction Motor
        by "Michael A. Radtke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) For noces: pre-work on a new conversion
        by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Re: Help With Repairing Traction Motor
        by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) Re: For noces: pre-work on a new conversion
        by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) Re: EVAA 2002 EV Conference
        by Marty Bernard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) Re: Raptor600 connection info
        by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: MK II regulator troubleshooting needed
        by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 25) My First 10000 miles in an EV (long)
        by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 26) Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"
        by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 27) Re: tercel and 911 update long
        by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 28) Re: For those familiar with springs
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message --- Bob Bath asked about reusing his Rabbit EV springs in his Civic conversion:

Bob, I really doubt the VW springs will work with the Honda parts. As I recall, the VW coils are longer and a little larger diameter.

On my Civic conversion I used Acura Integra front coils (perfect fit) and Prelude rear coils (close to perfect). Finding the right combination was a lot of trial an error (about 4 different combinations) and I would not recommend that route. If I had it to do again, I would have a custom set wound to order as others have mentioned. What I have works well, but I am sure a custom set would be better.

Others have mentioned air shocks and air bags. On other vehicles this may be an option, but the strut based suspension of the Honda will rule these out. On these cars the strut is both the shock absorber and the spring mount. If anyone has made one of these that is also an air shock, I have never seen it, and I am both a former mechanic and auto parts counterman.

One side note:
Working with strut type suspensions (in fact many coil type suspensions) is potentially hazardous. The springs must be partially compressed to install them, and that means a lot of potential energy is being stored. With care and the proper tools this is not a problem, but keep in mind it has put a few folks in the hospital when they failed to take care. You might want to consider removing the strut/spring assemblies and having the new springs installed by a shop with the proper tools, then reinstalling the completed assemblies yourself. While you are at it, this would be a good time for new premium struts and upper strut mounts.

Thanks,


Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---

In a few minutes, I noticed a Portland police cruiser pull
across the street from me, blue lights flashing, but no real sense of urgency. Soon,
another cruiser rolled up, then after checking out a minor situation, they turned off
their lights and I noticed them looking over my way....hmmm. Soon, one of them started to
make his way over to the Meanie....hmmm.

I guess the Portland cops are too cool for coffee and donuts at Crispy Cream and now go to Starbucks to drink espresso with biscotti. I suspect their real goal was to run you out of the EV parking slot so they could park close to Starbucks in their usual spot. :^)

_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
    How many  MG midgets do we have  as electric modification. I have a 1974
I have been driving for 7 years its 86 volts 8" advance 2500 lbs very nice
no rocket.But Its a like a 1275 motor for about 40 miles then slows down.
W1fdx  Jack.  I wonder how many MG  EVs are out there.

--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"I wonder how many MG  EVs are out there."

I don't have any overall numbers, but here's another one... and it's
for sale! ;) http://www.phoenixeaa.com/classifieds/020714/



     -~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-

     website.           http://www.1opossum.com
     pager.voicemail.   602.422.7996.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
     email.             [EMAIL PROTECTED]
     AOL Messenger.     mtnbikeAZ
     Yahoo! Messenger.  mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:23:48 -0500, you wrote:

>It doesn't seem too EV related and has lots of bandwidth this week.

Maybe, but some religious groups are turning out to be important
allies of the movement to get more EV's on the road.  This includes
surprising the Bush Administration.  The Administration expected more
"conservative" type support and instead some religious groups appear
to be environmentally-minded and EV-minded.

http://www.ncccusa.org/news/02news94.html

 While the thread itself didn't turn out to have much value, it did
seem to turn out to have an underlying premise that was important.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Seth,
If you find a source let me know. I have a 72V sepex NEV GE motor sitting in the basement waiting for a project. I also have several 400 amp sepex controls waiting for the same. As usual I have lots of good
stuff to trade for an adaptor plate.
Rod

Seth wrote:
I was wondering if an adaptor plate exists for GE go-kart motors,
specifically is there one sold that provides support for the splined end
of the armatture? I have a Yamaha/GE sep-ex cart motor and if I can't
find one, I will have to make an adapter. I don't wnat to, though. But
if I do, I will probably get a few made if there is demand and sell some
to other go-kart and LEV folk. (I think there are only 2 or 3 basic
go-kart mounting patterns)

Anyone ever seen such an adapter?

Seth

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, thanks for the info.  You use Optima though, and
I'm guessing that since I'm going to be adding 1100
lbs, not 600 lbs, the springs you used won't be
exactly right for my application?
   I'm trying to get quotes from distributors, and
they're a bit on the useless side.  For instance, I
got quotes for 4 shocks.  I thought that in back   you
have shocks, and in front you have struts, hence
different model numbers and prices.  Ie, you get a set
of 4 springs, and 2 shocks, and 2 struts.  Is this
incorrect?
   I totally concur on your take RE: spring
installation.  I am the type of person who would
rather be _alongside_ an expert the first time, not
learning by trial and error.
Appreciatively, 

--- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob Bath asked about reusing his Rabbit EV springs
> in his Civic conversion:
> 
> Bob, I really doubt the VW springs will work with
> the Honda parts.  As I 
> recall, the VW coils are longer and a little larger
> diameter.
> 
> On my Civic conversion I used Acura Integra front
> coils (perfect fit) and 
> Prelude rear coils (close to perfect).  Finding the
> right combination was a 
> lot of trial an error (about 4 different
> combinations) and I would not 
> recommend that route.  If I had it to do again, I
> would have a custom set 
> wound to order as others have mentioned.  What I
> have works well, but I am 
> sure a custom set would be better.
> 
> Others have mentioned air shocks and air bags.  On
> other vehicles this may 
> be an option, but the strut based suspension of the
> Honda will rule these 
> out.  On these cars the strut is both the shock
> absorber and the spring 
> mount.  If anyone has made one of these that is also
> an air shock, I have 
> never seen it, and I am both a former mechanic and
> auto parts counterman.
> 
> One side note:
> Working with strut type suspensions (in fact many
> coil type suspensions) is 
> potentially hazardous.  The springs must be
> partially compressed to install 
> them, and that means a lot of potential energy is
> being stored.  With care 
> and the proper tools this is not a problem, but keep
> in mind it has put a 
> few folks in the hospital when they failed to take
> care. You might want to 
> consider removing the strut/spring assemblies and
> having the new springs 
> installed by a shop with the proper tools, then
> reinstalling the completed 
> assemblies yourself.  While you are at it, this
> would be a good time for 
> new premium struts and upper strut mounts.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at:
> http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at:
> http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Hi all,

I'm just making sure that my new address is properly turned on to the EV list. After 5 years of one e-mail address I get as much spam as EV list posts!

Paul
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I am a sucker for motors and such:)
I figure I will draw something up this week if I don't find what I want.
My friend has a CNC milling machine, and I have an account with McMaster
Carr so maybe I ought to make 10 to amortize the setup and programming.
E-mail me with what you want in a bracket (other than holding a bearing
and some sort of regular pattern of holes to bolt to) if you have a
specific need. Drilled holes are pretty close to free on a CNC machine.

Seth 

Rod Hower wrote:
> 
> Seth,
> If you find a source let me know.  I have a 72V sepex NEV GE motor
> sitting in the basement waiting for a project.  I also have several 400
> amp sepex controls waiting for the same.  As usual I have lots of good
> stuff to trade for an adaptor plate.
> Rod
> 
> Seth wrote:
> > I was wondering if an adaptor plate exists for GE go-kart motors,
> > specifically is there one sold that provides support for the splined end
> > of the armatture? I have a Yamaha/GE sep-ex cart motor and if I can't
> > find one, I will have to make an adapter. I don't wnat to, though. But
> > if I do, I will probably get a few made if there is demand and sell some
> > to other go-kart and LEV folk. (I think there are only 2 or 3 basic
> > go-kart mounting patterns)
> >
> > Anyone ever seen such an adapter?
> >
> > Seth
> >

-- 
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rabbits and at least the earlier golfs have 2 struts in front, 2 "coil
over" shocks in the rear on an independent rear suspension that has some
inherent torsional coupling. For these cars, the rear spring rate is the
wheel rate. The 92 civic looks like the rear wheel rate is much lower
than the rear spring rate due to the different rear suspension geometry.
If you buy a "coil over" kit which enables variable height spring
perches and uses standard diameter springs (for race cars that is) then
you can get pretty much any ride height and rate you want and even multi
spring or single spring progressive setups. Anyone from the local SCCA
could probably name local shops to do that stuff if you don't find
suitable Honda "parts bin" stuff. If you were going to another VW
product, you would use www.srsvw.com for stock fitting springs of higher rate.

Seth 

Bob Bath wrote:
> 
> Mike, thanks for the info.  You use Optima though, and
> I'm guessing that since I'm going to be adding 1100
> lbs, not 600 lbs, the springs you used won't be
> exactly right for my application?
>    I'm trying to get quotes from distributors, and
> they're a bit on the useless side.  For instance, I
> got quotes for 4 shocks.  I thought that in back   you
> have shocks, and in front you have struts, hence
> different model numbers and prices.  Ie, you get a set
> of 4 springs, and 2 shocks, and 2 struts.  Is this
> incorrect?
>    I totally concur on your take RE: spring
> installation.  I am the type of person who would
> rather be _alongside_ an expert the first time, not
> learning by trial and error.
> Appreciatively,
> 
> --- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Bob Bath asked about reusing his Rabbit EV springs
> > in his Civic conversion:
> >
> > Bob, I really doubt the VW springs will work with
> > the Honda parts.  As I
> > recall, the VW coils are longer and a little larger
> > diameter.
> >
> > On my Civic conversion I used Acura Integra front
> > coils (perfect fit) and
> > Prelude rear coils (close to perfect).  Finding the
> > right combination was a
> > lot of trial an error (about 4 different
> > combinations) and I would not
> > recommend that route.  If I had it to do again, I
> > would have a custom set
> > wound to order as others have mentioned.  What I
> > have works well, but I am
> > sure a custom set would be better.
> >
> > Others have mentioned air shocks and air bags.  On
> > other vehicles this may
> > be an option, but the strut based suspension of the
> > Honda will rule these
> > out.  On these cars the strut is both the shock
> > absorber and the spring
> > mount.  If anyone has made one of these that is also
> > an air shock, I have
> > never seen it, and I am both a former mechanic and
> > auto parts counterman.
> >
> > One side note:
> > Working with strut type suspensions (in fact many
> > coil type suspensions) is
> > potentially hazardous.  The springs must be
> > partially compressed to install
> > them, and that means a lot of potential energy is
> > being stored.  With care
> > and the proper tools this is not a problem, but keep
> > in mind it has put a
> > few folks in the hospital when they failed to take
> > care. You might want to
> > consider removing the strut/spring assemblies and
> > having the new springs
> > installed by a shop with the proper tools, then
> > reinstalling the completed
> > assemblies yourself.  While you are at it, this
> > would be a good time for
> > new premium struts and upper strut mounts.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Mike Chancey,
> > '88 Civic EV
> > Kansas City, Missouri
> > EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> > My Electric Car at:
> > http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> > Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> > Join the EV List at:
> > http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
> >
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

-- 
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Jack,
Glad to see you are still driving your Midget.  Well, I know of several in
the EValbum.  http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/index4.html

My website is www.emidget.info.  If anyone wants to submit links to their
emidget project, I will add it to my site.

My project is a 69 MG Midget.  120V now, planned for 156V when I upgrade the
charger. =$$$
DCP600 with 12V floodeds.  20 mile range right now.  I have finished the
parts for the heater and am getting ready to install and test this
winter -brrrr.

EV Regards,

Jeremy Maus
Belleville, MI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.emidget.info

-----Original Message-----
From: jack gretta
Subject: E.V M G midgets ????
    How many  MG midgets do we have  as electric modification. I have a 1974
I have been driving for 7 years its 86 volts 8" advance 2500 lbs very nice
no rocket.But Its a like a 1275 motor for about 40 miles then slows down.
W1fdx  Jack.  I wonder how many MG  EVs are out there.

--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sorry, please delete
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
Mike, thanks for the info.  You use Optima though, and
I'm guessing that since I'm going to be adding 1100
lbs, not 600 lbs, the springs you used won't be
exactly right for my application?
Actually, my original setup had 26 Delphi AGMs, about 1144 pounds. I am now running 13 Dynasty group 31s, about 936 pounds.

   I'm trying to get quotes from distributors, and
they're a bit on the useless side.  For instance, I
got quotes for 4 shocks.  I thought that in back   you
have shocks, and in front you have struts, hence
different model numbers and prices.  Ie, you get a set
of 4 springs, and 2 shocks, and 2 struts.  Is this
incorrect?
Your Civic should have struts both front and rear. Most retailers use the term shock and strut interchangeably without really specifying which they mean.

Thanks,

Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Immediately following the feeding of the 5000 on the east shore of the Sea
of Galilee, they were trying to make Jesus the King of Israel by force.
Jesus refused and went east in the mountains to draw the crowd away from the
disciples. The disciples got into a boat and rowed toward Capernaum. A wind
stirred up the sea and they were about three or four miles from land rowing
to get to their destination. Jesus came walking on the sea as it to pass
them by. They thought it was a ghost and were frightened. Jesus said, "It is
I. Do not be afraid." They invited Him into the boat and they were
immediately at land where they were intending to land.

The crowd caught up with him the next day and they figured out that he had
left the mountain without them seeing Him. They had the route along the
north side of the lake well occupied with their overnight camps and no one
had seen Him go that way. There were no boats missing from the east side of
the lake (the disciples took one of the two available and the second boat
was still there). When the crowd caught up with Him, they demanded to know
how He got to Capernaum. He did not tell them. He left it a mystery.

The story is in The Gospel of John, Chapter 6.

I read it last week and it is still fresh in my mind.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: OT "What would Jesus Drive"


> Ok, so where did the phase "he walked on water" come from ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
   Here is an up date on the Toyota Tercel .  My yard is full of EV cars and
trucks,  83 ranger work truck' Porsche 924 , Mazda truck and the Porsche 912
with 911 fiberglass body which I'm slowly converting for "Pauls exotic cars"
( Paul makes fiberglass rep's of fancy cars www.paulsexotics.com  )  there
is also that VWgolf (gas) that got droped off by my wifes friend's son so
one more project can't happen here . This Tercel is perfect and I have been
telling by lawn custermer (owner) when the engine goes I want it . So it did
and I got it , towed it home with the ev ranger and ashore my wife that it
would be gone the next day (all this happened a few weeks ago). I had been
talking to  my EV friend tom who is building a EV from the ground up ( has
been since I met him  6 years ago)  about doing the conversion together and
at his house.  The plan is to convert it and sell it (I won't be unhappy if
Tom and his wife drive it till it sells) . Tom is planning to use the money
we make to finish his EV .  I just can't control myself when I see a car
that I think would make a nice conversion with a blown motor and this tercel
looks like one. Tom's wife like's to help and has done a lot on his car and
will be fixing up the inside, she'll also do the selling so all the stuff I
don't like to do we be done by somebody else. So we're talking about what
set up to use 12v optima  vs 6 golf cart and of course it's 13 12volters and
a big DCP controller.  Funny when it comes to speed vs distance most want
the speed .
     The 912/911 has turned out to be the "conversion for hell" well not
that bad but. In my eagerness to do conversions I agreed to this project
with out seeing the car .  When Paul brought it on a trailer it looked like
something that had sat for years in a field somewhere with out any cover .
Porsches seem to have a good under coat and he already had the fiberglass
 body on it . There was no tranny in it but he had a VW tranny  and since
the motor I had had a VW adaptor -plate (GE 9" ), well how hard could that
be ? Ended up being pretty hard as shift linkage and mounts don't come close
to lining up and I had to make something that is beyond my ability to type
; - (  .  The back wheels had to be moved back 2 1/2 inches and out 2 inches
to have the wheels come out in the right place on the new body.  Lengthening
the swing arms and banana tubes and trying to have the wheel line up has
been fun "not " .  The brakes needed everything replaced ( 2 brake lines and
resava were ok everything else needed replacing)_ . Wrong hoses came then no
hoses them I got to look through all Discount Autos hose's till I found
something that would do . Of course the e brake cable is to short now .  I
started before the lawn season and when the grass started growing there
wasn't much time to work on it .  Paul has been understanding and has helped
with treasure hunting some of the parts.  With all this fooling around the
conversion part has been pretty easy .  Bolted the back bat box on , put the
wheels on and the car touched the ground for the first time since spring.  I
hooked up 3 of the 12v excide (optima look a likes)  and ran long cables
form motor and bats  into cad . Two pieces of copper pipe ( bi-o controller)
and I'm ready for the first test ride but first I have to back it out of the
hole that it has been in . Well 3 batteries was more that I needed and with
just a touch I'm out of the hole and half way across the yard. So I re hook
it  up to just one and there's a little more control ( don't have the clutch
yet either) and I drive it to the end of the drive way. This thing is moving
around on just one battery ! I re hook the other two , engage the controller
(touch the two pipes together) and wheel spinning off I go for the first
ride around the block , ya hoooo I mucta been  in 3ed as it felt like about
30 mph and right up there to .  Something about that first ride that make's
it all worth while. I have to admire anyone who can control themselves and
hook up the controller first before that first ride (I did wait till I got
the brakes working) .  I hope Paul ordered that PFC-20 like I told him to .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
is there a web site or info on this .  It's starting (fees) to sound like
maybe its not for me .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: EVAA 2002 EV Conference


> Mark,
>
> I think I am just going to go for the Exposition Dec 12 and the Ride 'n'
> Drive Dec 13. Some of the session were tempting, but not enough to justify
> the fees in my case.
>
> Hopefully we can meet thursday or Friday. What sessions are you planning
to
> attend?
>
> Cliff
>
> www.ProEV.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:13 AM
> Subject: EVAA 2002 EV Conference
>
>
> I'll be staying at the Greenfield hotel 2mi North of the Westin Diplomat
> convention center for those who would like to get together December 9-13
> Hollywood Beach, Florida. See everyone there, Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ten messages in a week is "lots of bandwidth"?

I get twice to four times that much spam in a day.

Since it is tagged OT, just delete it with the spam.

My continuing posts on the subject are now off line in one on one
conversations.

Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 7:23 AM
Subject: Request to drop the WWJD thread...


> It doesn't seem too EV related and has lots of bandwidth this week.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,

Thanks for the tip on Warfield Electric.  I sent them some email.

I cleaned up the commutator and it looks fine.  If no one else has any
comments about my testing methods, I think that the parts are all that I
need to get on the road again.  

If anyone else knows a good source of GE traction motor parts I would
appreciate the lead in case Warfield doesn't pan out.

Thanks,
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After 8000 electric miles, my wife and I decided that
a Civic glider would have greater crash protection, an
airbag, and more cabin space for our growing family. 
A '92 was chosen, because it is the earliest year with
the airbag, (cost), and still lightweight.  Successive
years of Civics seem to add about 200 pounds with each
model change.  Civic was chosen also because thousands
were/are sold, and replacement doorhandles, vents,
etc. that break will easily be replaced for years,
similar to the Rabbit.
   Consumer Reports indicates no major flaws over time
in the transmission, which will of course be retained.
 Brakes and exhaust could be better, but no exhaust
needed in the vehicle.  Brake rotors can be swapped
out if necessary.
   The vehicle has an 850 lb. load weight.  The
150-200 lbs of combustion components will be replaced
by a 100 lb. motor.  Continuing the math, flooded lead
batts. will add 1100 lbs. So by the time the driver
hops in, we are over GVWR, as are most flooded batt.
EVs.
   My expertise is in that simple, wonderful schematic
of how an EV is wired.  So I bought the Helm manual,
but will actually employ a local JC to do the ICE
removal.  I have brought the VoltsRabbit by the school
twice a year for the MechTech program.  I have also
found a local salvage yard that will allow me to
consign the block, hoping to recoup some costs.
   I have located several suppiers for springs to
compensate for the extra weight I'll be adding.
   I have measured the rear battery rack, and realize
that if the Rabbit doesn't sell, the rear rack is
perfect size for the hatch of the Civic (8 batts.)
   I have found a prior conversion (same year, a
hatchback model) and can use the same component
location for many components in the Rabbit.  BUT: 1)
the DCDC converter only goes to 128V, and my Civic
will be running 144V.  2) The Curtis controller
employs a potbox & throttle cable. The existing Civic
conversion uses a DCP Raptor, which uses an inductive
throttle control.  That means n routing of the
throttle cable & potbox, which may need to be set up
around the front batt. rack.  (I'll know more about
that soon).  Changing the controller adds $1600 to the
cost, should the Rabbit not sell.
   Have found that KTA Services has pattern for the
adapter plate to my model.
   I'm thinking that for a name, I'll use
CivicWithACord.  If the Rabbit sells, I get a second
chance to use the 1100 tax credit.  (Already used once
for the Rabbit; not morally right to do it with the
Civic, if I'm using the same components).
   Project to begin Feb. 03.  Temps will be rising,
and the JC will have time in the schedule to do it.
   That's our present status!

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus  Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
   Hi Mike;

    Don't be shy, call them at the Chicago office. They will try to help ya,
instant answeres and gratification. They are very friendly and helpful, it's
THEIR nickel, on the 800 no. With yur motor nos. in front of you, go for it.

    Seeya

    Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael A. Radtke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Help With Repairing Traction Motor


> Bob,
>
> Thanks for the tip on Warfield Electric.  I sent them some email.
>
> I cleaned up the commutator and it looks fine.  If no one else has any
> comments about my testing methods, I think that the parts are all that I
> need to get on the road again.
>
> If anyone else knows a good source of GE traction motor parts I would
> appreciate the lead in case Warfield doesn't pan out.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All (and to Bob),

Bob Bath wrote:

>The existing Civic conversion uses a DCP Raptor...Changing the controller adds $1600 
>to
the
>cost...The Curtis controller employs a potbox & throttle cable.

Getting rid of that awful, squeal-generating Curtis and replacing it with a silent, 
more
powerful DCP product will be the best thing you could do...who wants an irritating 
squeal
to ruin the otherwise silent operation of an EV?

You didn't mention what type of motor you'll be using, but judging by the rest of your
design, it's a pretty good bet it's not going to be an AC system and that it will be a 
DC
motor of some sorts. Make sure to properly advance the motor's timing for Honda's 
reverse
engine rotation to avoid a fire-balled motor.

>I'm thinking that for a name, I'll use 'CivicWithACord'.

I think that's a terrific name!

See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try http://www.eticonference.com/agenda.html

1sclunn wrote:

> is there a web site or info on this .  It's starting (fees) to sound like
> maybe its not for me .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 6:45 AM
> Subject: Re: EVAA 2002 EV Conference
>
> > Mark,
> >
> > I think I am just going to go for the Exposition Dec 12 and the Ride 'n'
> > Drive Dec 13. Some of the session were tempting, but not enough to justify
> > the fees in my case.
> >
> > Hopefully we can meet thursday or Friday. What sessions are you planning
> to
> > attend?
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > www.ProEV.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EV List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:13 AM
> > Subject: EVAA 2002 EV Conference
> >
> >
> > I'll be staying at the Greenfield hotel 2mi North of the Westin Diplomat
> > convention center for those who would like to get together December 9-13
> > Hollywood Beach, Florida. See everyone there, Mark
> >
> >

--
*********************************************************************

Martin J. Bernard III, Ph.D.
Executive Director
National Station Car Association
Oakland, California
http://www.stncar.com

Information Exchange
Technical Support in Developing Station-Car and Shared-Car Programs
Assistance in Developing Funding

*********************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Bebbington wrote:
> 
> Thanks Ralph!
> 
> That'll get me started, I want to plan the wiring properly in
> my Mini Cooper project ( EV no. 2 .... )
> 
> If anyone has schematics of the tachometer pickup and remote
> LED port, I'd be grateful ( I can probably figure it out, if
> I open up the Raptor's case and look at the circuitry )
> But it'd be better to have a diagram...
> 
> Regards
> 
> Richard Bebbington
> Electric Mini pickup
E-mailing Damon would be the correct thing to do. But... I also have
them.
 I still say get replacements from DCP, and forget the R&D time.

-- 
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
Mark Dodrill wrote:
> 
> Hello all.  I've been noticing some odd behavior of one of my Rudman Mark
> II regulators, and I wanted to ask the list about it.
> 
> This regulator is on the the pair of YTs that always seem to get "full"
> first.  When it gets full, the Green light comes on solid--it never flashes
> first.  It's either on or off.  It doesn't seem to be shunting the current
> to the heatsink, though, because the heatsink never changes temp (its always
> at ambient).  I've changed the setting for the regulation cut in, but it
> still has the same behavior.  The charging voltage is going up to 15.1 or
> 15.2, which is higher than I want it to be.  Since I don't have the best
> charger, I don't have much control over the volts/amps mix, but typically
> the pack is being charged at 147 volts or better, at up to 3.5 amps.
> 
> None of the other regulators are exhibiting this behavior, and they seem
> to handle the current okay.
> 
> Do you think my hypothesis is correct?
> 
> Thanks.
> Mark Dodrill

You need a replacement!!!
I will get one out to you. 

The next question os Why did it fail, and what let go? MOST likely the
Fet got spanked.
Check for loose connections. This can make one seam to  come on but not
move any current.
-- 
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well the odometer turned over to 60033 miles on the way home from work last Friday, 
indicating 10,000 miles since I bought the converted-to-electric 92 Civic last May.  I 
still have the EV Grin.

As I have settled into a routine, my 43 mile each way commute is using about 230 watts 
per mile traveling a mixture of surface streets and highway miles.  It usually takes 
me right at a hour for my drive, so I must average 43 miles per hour, but most of it 
(30 miles) is at highway speeds (55) the rest is stop and go on surface streets.

I have about 275 cycles on the US GC8's and they still are working fine showing no 
siginificant sagging at the end of my commute.  I check the voltage on the Emeter 
while drawing about 15A through my heater at the end of each commute and have not had 
any significant change in the voltage in the last three months, so hopefully the 
batteries still have some life remaining.  With this 43 miles my discharge on the 
batteries is fairly high, usually 70-80 % discharge(per the emeter), so I am hitting 
them hard.  I check the water on the batteries weekly (ok, sometimes I miss a week, 
but every 2 week at least) and clean the tops with baking soda solution.  With any 
luck my batteries will last me for another 6 months and another 8,000 miles which will 
bring my battery cost to 7 cents per mile.  With an out-of-the-wall cost of 2.25 cents 
per mile for clean Windsource power from the power company, that brings me to 9.25 
cents per mile.  Since my alternate vehicle is the big Ford Van (1!
 5 mpg), the EV would be economically equavalent at a gasoline price of $1.389 (not 
counting oil changes on the Ford).

As the weather has gotten colder, the car has continued to perform well.  The 
installation of battery heaters under each 8VGC has kept the batteries a toasty 80F, 
even when the outside temperature is in the 20's.  As a consequence of the warm 
batteries, there has been no range change in the cold weather.  Icy/snowpacked roads 
are a different matter.  Snow pack increase my watts per mile to over 300 (sometimes a 
lot more).  A lot of that is from the slush that freezes under the car adding lots of 
weight, some from stop and go nature of trafic in snow and a little from the need to 
run wipers, heater, and lights.  I've solved this problem by riding the Bus!  The park 
and ride is only 5 miles from my home and eaisly in range on snowy days.

The electric has not been entirely trouble free, I have had two signifcant problems.

The first problem was finding smoke coming from the motor one hot July day.  A little 
trouble shooting found that 3 of the 8 brushes in the motor had jammed in the sleaves, 
burning the wire off of the brushes.  Of course the brushes that needed replacing were 
the ones requiring the removal of several batteries!  Total time replace brushes 3 
days, cost to replace all 8 brushes about $80 (even counting express shipping).  If I 
had to do it again, it would probally only take 3 or 4 hours (learning curve and a 
slight design modificaiton).

The other problem was Fizzzzz-bang noise coming out of the charger followed by nothing 
out of the charger.  I am using the Manzanita Mirco PFC-20 serial number 17 charger so 
I called Rich Rudman who immediately authorized the return under warrenty.  I returned 
the charger to him and he found the problem, repaired the charger and had it back to 
me in less than a week.  Since the return, the charger has been working better than 
ever.  I thought a long time about getting the PFC-20 or using a Zivan charger, I am 
so glad I chose the PFC-20, not only for the spectacular electrical parameters but 
also for the fantastic support.

I do use the PFC20 charger to get the maximum charge into the batteries in the fastest 
time possible.  My employer, Ball Aerospace, has provided 220 Volt 30 Amp outlets for 
me to use, enabling a full chare in about 3.5 hours.  Of course with the PFC-20 I can 
recharge in about 6.5 hours off of a 110 15 Amp circuit if I need to. 

For the first 220 cycles I had been charging the 144 pack to 176 Volts then holding 
the voltage until the current was under 4 Amps (2.44 Volts per cell).  After geting 
clear direction from US battery, I have been charging to 186 Volts (2.583 Volts per 
cell) and holding to 4 Amps.  This new charging voltage seems working well as my end 
of run voltage is higher indicating less discharge on the pack (it does use a little 
more water though).

I really enjoy driving the EV.  There is a little known provision in the Colorado 
Motor Vehicle code that permits EV's to travel in the HOV lane with the proper permit. 
 In Colorado you need to get the permit from the Colorado Department of Transportation 
and place a big ugly orange sticker on your front bumper.  The slight visual blimish 
is well worth it as I zip by well over 100 single passenger SUV sitting in trafic on 
Santa Fe Blvd every day.  Use of the EV and HOV lane saves me about 20 minutes on my 
going home commute every day.  Last week I was pulled over by the local cop who stated 
that I was driving in a HOV lane and he had pulled me over because there was only one 
of me in the car.  I said, "Yes, I like driving in the HOV lane in my EV" and pointed 
out the ugly orange sticker.  He had no idea what the orange sticker was for so I 
showed him the permit from the DOT and offered to give him the tour of the car.  I 
told him not to be concerned about knowing about the H!
 OV permit, because even after I knew it was available, it took me two months to find 
out how to get one.  He said I could go on but still had a very perplexed look on his 
face as I silently drove off.  That keeps the EV grin going!

Like most others on the list I dream about new battery technology, my next conversion, 
and 200 mile per charge cars.  But in reality, I am perfectly happly with my little 
eCivic which meets the needs of my commute.


I'll post another report when I get to 15,000 miles.


Lynn Adams
92 converter Civic VX
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html






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--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> 
> Comments inserted...

> I think he has something like a Star Trek transporter for getting around. He
> would not drive.
> 


I think it's clear who just got out of Chruch????

-- 
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
 I hope Paul ordered that PFC-20 like I told him to .
> Steve Clunn

Ummm NO Check here at Manzanita or P.Os.
I will keep my eyes open. 

-- 
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 25/11/02 00:53:57 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

> If you buy a "coil over" kit which enables variable height spring
> perches and uses standard diameter springs (for race cars that is) then
> you can get pretty much any ride height and rate you want and even multi
> spring or single spring progressive setups. 

Beware that many of these kits uses shortened dampers and achieving even 
standard ride height can be difficult. I bought one kit, asking for a 40% 
spring rate upgrade. What arrived were springs 150% stiffer, which were 
almost solid and I could only get within 1/2" of standard height. Fortunately 
although my request to achieve standard ride height was not on the order, the 
40% stiffer request was and I was able to get a full refund without paying 
the 15% restocking fee.

Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---

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