EV Digest 2448

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Surplus aircraft nicads
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  2) Re: Responding to EV Naysayers
        by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Responding to EV Naysayers
        by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) Re: Responding to EV Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales
        by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) Re: Responding to EV Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales
        by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  6) Re: Renault LeCar parts
        by "Tony McCormick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: EVLN(Look Ma, Ford's bamboo EV 500+-piece kit)
        by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: l e d's
        by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) Re: Question about ammeter with regen 
        by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Sparrow battery heaters and MKII regulators
        by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) EVLN(Brown speaks true: EVs are not dead)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) EVLN(REVA will be exported to Britain and Europe)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) EVLN(Repercussions from Ford's EV abandonment)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) EVLN(Going, Going, Gone : Ventura Think nEV)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) EVLN(Auto/Oil use GreenCar to push nEVs)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) EVLN(DC pushes GEM nEVs across USA)
        by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I have just received the 2003 NHRA rule book, NiCads are allowed in electric 
vechs. although the terminology should probably be rewritten. The rule book 
says (Sealed Vented Nicads) I will be using NiCads in 2003 for bracket racing 
the CURRENT ELIMINATOR. Advantages I see for bracket racing are: 

#1 Same available power either cold or warm, thus the 2 or 3 practice runs 
will be the same as the actual elimination runs. Consistency is the name of 
the game in bracket racing.

#2 The pack I will be using will have enough extra amp hours to make at least 
2 consistent runs thus I will not have to fully top the pack in between runs 
to be consistent. As the race day progresses the round winners have to come 
to the line quicker (I have gotten caught in this trap a couple of times) and 
sometimes have been directed back to the line immediately, this has spelled 
doom for the Current Eliminator with the lead batts I was using. Topping of 
the pack will be done at home or in the early rounds as time permits.

#3 Some NiCads I have bench raced hold the voltage high throughout the run 
making for Big mph#s. This really helps when bracket racing. 

Question, I realize one should not have NiCads stored in the same room as 
lead acid batteries the Current Eliminator resides in an enclosed trailer 
with a pit cart powered by lead acids also the 15kw genset is started by a 
lead acid battery. Should I be adapting the genset and pitcart to NiCads 

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+ I read an articel a couple years ago or less about the subject. As
+ close as I can recall, the title goes something like; Tailpipe to 
+ Smokestacks, Debunking the EV Myth.

A search on Google turns up several links to this article. Here is one
of them...

Debunking the Myth of EVs and Smokestacks - by Chip Gribben

     -~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-

     website.           http://www.1opossum.com
     pager.voicemail.   602.422.7996.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
     email.             [EMAIL PROTECTED]
     AOL Messenger.     mtnbikeAZ
     Yahoo! Messenger.  mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe I should have finished reading my messages before responding. ;)

+ I wrote a paper awhile back called "Debunking the Myths of EVs and
+ Smokestacks" to address the very point of the power plant myth.
+ You can download the paper at http://www.evadc.org/pwrplnt.pdf

     -~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-

     website.           http://www.1opossum.com
     pager.voicemail.   602.422.7996.  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
     email.             [EMAIL PROTECTED]
     AOL Messenger.     mtnbikeAZ
     Yahoo! Messenger.  mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, John, perhaps you should start writing a regular weekly column.
I enjoyed reading about your encounters with the Ford F-350 Power
Stroke Diesel and the horse drawn buggies.

But I must question a  point in this week's column.
You told a woman that her horse drawn buggy caused less pollution than
your electric car.  That certainly isn't so!  As a farm boy, I stepped in a
lot of horse**** and cleaned  barns and stables.  Horse "emissions"
are in my opinion worse than than those of infernal combustion
engines. In 1900 it took a crew of about 15000 to clean the streets
every night in New York City.  Urine accumulated during dry
weather and after a rain the streets were so slippery that horses and
people couldn't stand. Unpaved streets were covered with a mixture of
about equal portions of mud, manure and urine.  Women wore high top
 shoes and long petticoats
to protect their feet and legs and long skirts to hide their filthy shoes
and pettticoats.  Most  families who had a horse also had a stable and
a manure pile to attract flies and the stink and diseases that flies
spread.  It's ironic  that when ICE cars first were available, cleanliness
was a widely touted selling point.

Tom Shay

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 3:38 AM
Subject: Responding to EV Naysayers...More Blue Meanie Tales

> Hello to All,
> You know, I'm going to have to start writing a regular weekly column 'The
Adventures of
> Blue Meanie'!  I swear, this car is like a 'fun and interesting
experience' magnet! I had
> taken a short morning trip in my beloved electric car, then came home and
read Tom Shay's
> post and started to write my thoughts  on this 'Responding to EV
Naysayers' thing. I
> wanted to respond to his post with the memory of what had just happened
still fresh in my
> mind, however, I got interrupted and so didn't finish writing until now,
much later in the
> day. Having just now returned from yet another fun experience with the
Meanie, again,
> while at the downtown EV charging station, the scene of other recent Blue
> encounters (Fast charge "gas" stations, Blue Meanie, & Portland Cops!),
I've decided to
> combine the two episodes together.....
> Thomas Shay wrote:
> > Don't worry about the naysayers.  You can't make them into
> > fans of electric vehicles no matter what say or do.  Invest
> > your time and patience with people willing and interested in
> > learning about EVs.
> >
> > Tom Shay
> Though Tom's basic premise is correct, I'm not in total agreement with him
on this. I
> have, on too many occasions to list, completely turned around bone head
types, to where
> they actually think EVs are cool and a good idea... I may have done it
again just today!
> I do it, with an EV that breaks their stereotyped view of what 'they' see
EVs as being
> slow, dull, and boring rolling science projects only for the timid tree
hugger types.
> Episode one.....
> I was out in Blue Meanie this morning and had just washed it, so the car
was glimmering in
> the crisp Fall sunlight with beads of water jiggling atop the lustrous
paint job. I had
> been noticing that coming up from behind me was a humongous Moby Dick
style, manly
> machine, a Ford pickup of huge proportions. The all white gargantuan Ford
F350, the
> monster sized platform that the piggy Excursion SUV is based on, was
decked out with a
> full canopy, huge rims and tires, and a rude sounding, thrashing
clattering diesel
> engine...we're talking the complete opposite of my small sized, kind to
the environment
> electrified Datsun! About the only positive thing I could get from his
rig, was that it
> too, looked as though it had just been washed and detailed.
> I could see that he was checking out my car, probably because he was
appreciating that it
> was in immaculate condition, something the two of us seemed to have in
common. I slowed
> for a light that had gone to yellow and was driving very calmly, making a
> slow-down.  I could see him looking down from his macho perch at the
'VOLTS' plate, then
> saw his eyes dart left at the Mike Chancey 'ELECTRIC' emblem on the trunk
lid...it was
> clear to me that he had figured out the car was electric. At the red
light, I lost visual
> contact with his face and could only see the huge expansive grill of the
mighty Ford
> looming high off the ground behind me, now with the over-driven distorted
sound of his
> obviously factory Ford 'high end' sound system (cranked way up) mixed in
with the
> offensive diesel clatter and racket. I was reminded of that Subaru
commercial where the
> happy couple in their Outback wagon has come upon a few graceful deer in
the woods and are
> admiring their beauty, when it is all ruined by some obnoxious dude who
comes roaring up
> in his V8 powered huge SUV, and after his noise, dust, dirt, and
aggressive arrival has
> scared off the dear, he asks, "What are you looking at?"
> The road was an east-bound one way four lane affair at this point, the far
left one a left
> turn lane only, the lane next to it was going straight ahead, the third
lane, my lane, was
> also going straight ahead, and the fourth lane to my right was a run-out
lane that flanked
> a shopping mall and branched right a couple blocks ahead onto another
street. The lane to
> my left had lots of cars in it, and I was at the head of my lane with
macho man behind me.
> The lane to my right was wide open though, and he had determined that my
little 'ol
> ee-lek-trik car was surely going to hold him and his mighty 'Rig De Ville'
up, and as I
> was surmising this, he confirmed it with a sudden lane change that nearly
caught my car's
> right rear corner as he pulled alongside to my right...his sound system
and engine clatter
> even more obnoxious....time to begin the EV lesson of the day!
> The first thing I did, was to lower the right window lift, and dial up the
> powerful sound system with some funky 'Tower of Power'...I cranked it up
to competition
> levels, but unlike his LO-FI setup, mine remained crystal clear with the
MB Quarts singing
> and the four eights in back pumping out copious amounts of beefy bass
courtesy of
> Chester's flying feet on the Hammond B3's bass pedals. Ford-man
immediately looked over
> and down at my car, seemingly stunned that my little eco-car had such a
> system....'electric cars can't have a powerful sound system' myth, soundly
> As I glanced over, the large 'Power Stroke' badging against a wall of
white paint
> proclaimed the diesel's might...good thing I had on my green flamed
Oakleys! I placed
> Meanie's 4 speed tranny in 2nd gear, ready to slam open the throttle
solenoid, but I had
> decided I'd let him make the first move, after all, there was the 'slight'
> that I could have made an error in my 'profiling'...perhaps he was merely
going to move
> ahead and take a right turn into the mall parking lot....nah, I'm rarely
wrong about these
> macho man types! Besides, I have recently installed a fresh set of Optimas
(the old pack
> was still giving 15 miles range after 5 years of hard-accelerating
service), and combined
> with the 'It Vil not Schlip' clutch and that bodacious DCP 1200 amp
controller, my little
> 2340 lb. EV has what feels like a 0-60 time in the low 6 second region.
Sure enough, when
> the light turned green, the nose of the white whale lifted, the engine
roared and rattled,
> and he was 'a go'n fur it!' In an instant, my Rebock was buried and the
Goodyears were
> squealing as Meanie laid about 40 feet of second gear rubber, launching
the car swiftly
> and hurtling it instantly ahead of Moby Dick with wisps of white tire
smoke peeling out of
> the right rear fender well. I flew past him, banging 3rd gear as the rear
squatted and the
> tires barked...he just had to be stunned again...'electric cars are slow
and wimpy' myth,
> soundly debunked!  Sure enough, he never had intended to turn right, he
only wanted to get
> in front of me. With his now flaccid ego, he pulled in behind me, maybe 10
car lengths in
> pursuit...what fun!
> Not wanting to get nabbed by any lurking cops, I lit up the brake lights,
slowed down, and
> cruised along at a pinch above the 35 mph speed limit. Again, I could see
his face in my
> mirror, and his expression was priceless! We made it up to the next major
> where he pulled alongside me to my left and his passenger window went
down...so did mine.
> As he slid over and leaned out the window, I was expecting either a red
face and a gun
> barrel, or hopefully, something a bit less dramatic. He seemed OK but
still a bit glazed
> over as he asked:
> "Is that 'really' an electric car?"
> Plasma Boy..."Yeah, it is."
> Macho man..."You smoked 'em! Man, it flies!"
> Plasma Boy..."Yeah, I've probably got more torque on board than your
diesel has."
> Macho man..."Wow, I had no idea they could move like that!"
> And with that, the light changed, and we went our separate ways.
Sometimes, actions speak
> louder than words, and though many may be disgusted with my teenage
antics, there is no
> doubt in my mind, that this was a very potent way to respond to an EV
> Episode two.....
> It was 4:00 when my wife came out to visit me in our backyard EV
shop...she always knows
> where to find me. I had just vacuumed and cleaned Blue Meanie as I had the
car on a 1 amp
> equalization charge. She reminded me that 'coffee girl' needed to be
picked up up at
> around 4:30, and perhaps I might want to leave now so that I could be
there a bit early
> and recharge at the EV Charging Station. It's so cool to have an EV savvy
> I left for the downtown run, and after already having my testosterone
EVent earlier with
> the dude in big Ford pickup, this run was to be a 'see how little ahrs you
can use, to
> make the gradual downhill 9 drive miles to the Starbucks block.' This is a
fun freeway run
> where Blue Meanie's 156V (nominal) system only draws 45 amps or so to
cruise along at 60
> mph while the pack stays at 162V or so...figuring losses, that's only
about 7 horsepower!
> It usually takes about 8.6 - 9 ahrs from the pack. The run to downtown was
leisurely with
> none of the more typical 'spirited' driving I often fall into, and when I
rolled into the
> charging spot, the car had used just 8.4 ahrs! I guess I'll raise the bar
and see if I can
> make the run sometime at 8 ahrs on the nose.
> I popped the trunk, pulled out the 240V charging cord, opened the fuel
filler door and
> twised-in the L6-30, plugged in the NEMA 14-50 to the charge stand, and
twisted the power
> selector knob to hear that familiar 'clunk' as the stand's contactor
engaged. As I was
> about to hit the remote door locks and walk around the corner to let my
daughter know I
> was there, I heard some other odd
sounds....clip-clop-clip-clop-clip-clop...man, was the
> contactor freaking out? Nope...it was one of Portland's many horse drawn
carriages coming
> past me with a tourist couple bundled up to enjoy a brisk cool Fall late
afternoon tour of
> downtown. The area is quite pretty, with modern glass skywalks, tall
buildings, lighted
> trees, neon signs, and a view of Tom McCall Park's fountain and the
Willamette River
> ahead. I was next treated to an entertaining experience (it always happens
when I'm with
> Blue Meanie) as I listened in to the driver of the carriage as she was
giving her  tour
> with a zeal that was refreshing...
> "We're in the waterfront district, and ahead you can see Tom McCall Park
and the
> Willamette River, the east-west boundary of Portland...and on your left is
one of
> Portland's electric car charging stations, and this nice young man here
charging his car!"
> Whoa, here I am with my 51 year old frame and my salt and pepper beard
(mostly salt these
> days), and she's calling me a nice 'young' man? Hmm, I like her! I was
thrilled that she
> had segued into the electric car thing, so I of course, being the ham I
am, I got into the
> act:
> "Yeah....you're the only vehicle down here that is less polluting than my
electric car."
> What followed had me, literally speechless and laughing as she rolled on
with her
> showmanship...
> "Yeah, I get great 'grass' mileage!"
> ....and as she rounded the corner and looked back at me, she taunted,
"Say, how many miles
> to the bale of hay do you get?"
> It's not often I get one-upped, but she nailed me!
> Next up, again as I attempted to leave, here came another horse-drawn
carriage, this one
> with four tourists aboard. As they approached, the driver said, "Nice
> right?" He was evidently knowledgeable about cars, as many today don't
even know what kind
> of car Blue Meanie is. He stopped and the passengers wanted to know a few
things about my
> car, and so there was a brief conversation before they clip-clopped off
into the darkening
> late afternoon.
> Right behind them, came a third one horsepower vehicle, and again, the
tourists were
> fascinated with my electric car....what fun! As they clogged away, I made
my get-away
> around the corner and through the locked glass Starbucks doors, let my
daughter know I was
> there and that I'd be around the corner for her. I went back to pre-warm
the car when I
> was approached by a young security guard who 'really' wanted to see the
car. I spent the
> next five minutes with the hood up and a small crowing crowd of
onlookers...what fun! My
> daughter came up, and asked, "You got the electric heater going?"
> The way back home was a current sucking affair, as it is all slightly
uphill, and, the
> famous Columbia Gorge east winds had kicked up, so we were fighting a 30
mph head wind.
> The traffic was humping along at 70-ish, so I stayed with the flow.
Additionally, the
> temperature was dropping like a rock, so we kept the heater blasting.
Compared to my solo
> 45 amp current draw on the way downtown, with a two passenger load at
higher uphill
> speeds, we now pulling 125-160 amps, with it only dropping occasionally to
75 amps or
> so...no problems of course, but just an interesting comparison. Under less
> conditions and by myself at 60 mph or so, the car usually pulls 60-75 amps
all the way
> home.
> When we rolled into the EV shop driveway, the return trip had used 19.8
ahrs, but the pack
> was still showing strong voltage at around 158 volts with the lights on
and the heater
> still pulling juice. I plugged in the car, and in the time I took to
unload a few things
> from the trunk and do a few shop item put-aways, the strong PFC20 had
already put back 5
> ahrs!
> Later in the evening, the fully charged Meanie was taken out for various
shopping errands.
> Having more EV fun than should be legal.....
> See Ya....John Wayland

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Hi John and All,

I certainly wish I could afford to have half the fun you have with your
cars. Thanks for being an escentric and antic filled "nice young man"!! LOL

I always find your stories highly entertaining and hugely enjoyable.


Rick Pryor
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Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 18:36:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EVLN(DC pushes GEM nEVs across USA)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

EVLN(DC pushes GEM nEVs across USA)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
 informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
 --- {EVangel}
DaimlerChrysler unveils new line of electric vehicles
By Tim Young  Staff Reporter [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Tim Stover looks at an electric car developed by Global
Electric Motorcars (GEM), a subsidiary of DaimlerChrysler.
Stover's wife works at the local plant and is interested in
buying one of the cars.

DaimlerChrysler unveiled the new wave in automobile travel
Monday at the New Castle plant.

A new electric car developed by Global Electric Motorcars
(GEM), a subsidiary of DaimlerChrysler, has been designed to
change the face of utility trucks forever.

This electric car is one of the first steps in making more
environmentally sound vehicles for use by the public.

"I think this is the direction we are going in," said Chris
Surber, UAW facilitator.

Surber purchased two of the electric utility trucks to be
used in his brother-in-law's tree farm.

The two-passenger short-bed truck can haul up to 500 pounds
and get up to 25 m.p.h. for 35 miles. The 72-volt motor
takes six hours to recharge.

The electric cars also come in a two-passenger long bed, and
a two to four-passenger car.

Surber said these new types of electric vehicles will only
get "bigger and better."

Currently, Surber's family is using golf carts on the farm,
but the electric utility truck has a higher torque, better
carrying capabilities and is safer to drive.

"These are so much more powerful, durable," Surber said.

He said the public can get used to seeing these vehicles on
the street, because unlike golf carts, electric cars are
street legal. Indiana will soon have license plates
available for the new electric cars.

Surber said a lot of the cars will sell for in-town use or
for retirement homes. He said some people have already
bought one and use them to go traveling with their RVs.

"The big notice is there's no sound," Surber said.

After you turn the key, there is just the hum of the motor.
It's smooth and quiet.

The cars also come with a lot of features, including a radio
and a safety glass windshield. Equipped with headlights and
turn signals, the electric car is designed for people to use

"They're all-American made," Surber said.

Prices for different models range anywhere from $6,995 to

GEM has produced more than 7,000 vehicles since its
beginning in 1998.

The closest dealer of the electric cars is in Greencastle.

"In many areas distance is not required, and high speed is
neither needed nor wanted," said Ken Montler, president of
GEM. "In these areas electric vehicles are superior to the
internal combustion vehicle. They are less expensive to
operate, compact, quiet and environmentally friendly. People
are finding this out and choosing the GEM as their second
vehicle. We expect this market to continue to explode as
more and more people discover the benefits."

' ____
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above EV ascci art)

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