EV Digest 2495
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) GCI Outlet + Onboard Isolated Charger = < Stupid Me
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: DC fan (OT) Math Error
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Things that make you go Hum-Vee
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Possible Restoration/Conversion Candidate? (slightly OT)
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) FW: [think_ev] Breaking news: Think sold
by Rick Woodbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Really High Voltage Drive an' Stuff
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
by Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Prius hacking. Alec Brooks AC Propulsion
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ranger EVs Still Around?
by Geoff Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Prius hacking. Alec Brooks AC Propulsion
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Prius hacking. Alec Brooks AC Propulsion
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Raptur Problem
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Raptur Problem
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Things that make you go Hum-Vee
by "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Wireless remote for e-meter?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: AC Motors on Ebay
by "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Wireless remote for e-meter?
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Merry Christmas
by "Prasad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: GCI Outlet + Onboard Isolated Charger = < Stupid Me
by "Vince" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Raptur Problem
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Oops, Re: Update on Tilley's Delorian
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Raptur Problem
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well I can now answer the question of why to use GFCI outlet even with an
onboard Isolated Charger?
So I dropped the end of a 240 cord connected to a 50 amp outlet in the sump
pump hole. I have put it on it's hook a hundred time before but this time it
just didn't take. Luckily I think I just need a new end to my cord. And a
GFCI in the box/outlet. And a screen for that sump pump hole lest I fall in
myself!
I guess I really should have made a fuss when they put in the 50 amp outlet
and not the GFCI breaker like I asked! But I had an isolated charger so what
could be the problem, I guess that would be me.
First I buy a rabbit that was sold because it got toasted with wiring now
i'm trying to start my own toasties..
Mark Hastings
'80 EV Rabbit. Almost on the road.
'83 EV Blazer.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Always check your math. I cheated and asked my cube mate (he is usually
pretty good with english to metric) and took his off the cuff guess.
Rich is probably right. 1 7/8 inches is 47.625mm, so it is probably a 48mm.
My bad.
At 12:15 PM 12/20/2002, Rich Rudman wrote:
Gordon Niessen wrote:
>
> 12VDC 25mm. There are several that may work. Part# 259-1014-ND seems a
>
> >Size ~ 1 7/8 "
I would get the 40 MM fan since it is 1.6 inches. I expect that the
outside edge is very close to 1.875, like you need.
3 wires
black neg
Red Pos
White most likley tach output. You gear needs this to know if the fan
is actually running.
pick a 12 volter that has the most amps and CFM.
Digikey.com
Mouser.com
Alliedelec.com has by FAR the best fan selection.
Manzanita Micro PFC chargers use Mechatronics fans.... from the
factory
sorry I only have 60mm and 80 mm in stock.
I like EGG Rotron Roger???
Orion has some good stuff.
find one that fits, and get it. There are about a dozzen makes that
could be used.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 4.
> THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO HUM-VEE
> Tax deductions granted by the federal government to small-business
> owners and the self-employed provide an incentive to purchase
> oversize, gas-guzzling vehicles like a General Motors Hummer, rather
> than small, more fuel-efficient cars like the hybrid Toyota Prius.
> An eligible buyer of a 2003 Hummer H2 could deduct $34,912 of the
> base price of the vehicle, for a tax savings of up to $13,500 for
> those in the highest tax bracket. Because part of the tax code
> governing the deductions was written in the 1980s, when deductions
> for car purchases were capped at no more than $7,660, buyers of cars
> get a far worse deal than those purchasing light trucks and SUVs.
> Environmentalists are outraged by the biased tax breaks and want them
> ended, saying they make no sense in the face of growing concern about
> U.S. dependence on foreign oil.
>
> straight to the source: Detroit News, Jeff Plungis, 18 Dec 2002
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=812>
>
> straight to the source: New York Times, Danny Hakim, 20 Dec 2002
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/forward.pl?forward_id=810>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
240
Table1 The operation conditions and
specifications of the SOFC system
Table 2 Comparison of driving range between
SOFC-EVs and an ICE vehicle
Design and Evaluation of Electric Vehicle using Solid
Oxide Fuel Cells
K. Yamada, A. Kobayashi, H. Fukunaga, N. Takahashi; Shinshu University
C. Wen; The University of Tokyo
Fuel cells (FCs) have been considered as potential energy sources for
electric vehicles because of high
generation efficiency, low emission and short-time refueling. Among FCs,
Solid oxide fuel cell
(SOFC) system is operated at the high temperature, resulting in a higher
reaction activity to use the
hydrocarbon fuels. In this paper, we design an SOFC-EV in which the SOFC
system(50kW) is
composed of micro-tube cells, reformers and heat exchangers with the same
outer-diameter of
2.4mm.~The materials used for the electrolyte, anode , cathode are Sm doped
CeO2 as a main
component, Ni-YSZ Cermet and La0.8Sr0.2CoO3, respectively. Table.1 shows the
operation conditions
and specifications of the SOFC system. The total weight and volume of the
system are 54kg and
0.061m 3 , respectively. This indicates that the size of the SOFC system is
compatible with that of an
internal combustion engine.
The comparison of driving range between SOFC-EVs and an ICE vehicle is shown
in Fig 1. The
calculation results show that by using such a system the maximum energy
density obtained is as high
as 0.9kW/kg or 0.8kW/L. The power needed to drive the model car(Toyota RAV4)
with the total
weight of 1300kg at constant rates of 60km/hr, 150km/hr and 10.15 mode was
calculated to be 3.5kW,
10kW and 18kW, respectively. The cost of the SOFC system was calculated to
be lower than 1Myen.
Under the 10.15 conditions the thermal efficiency is 50% which is much
higher than that of the
traditional generator. The fuel consumption of SOFC-EV under the 10.15 mode
was calculated to be
55km/kg-CH4(46km/kg-gasolin) which was much higher than that of ICE vehicle
(17 km/kg-gasolin).
Operation conditions
Temp. (K)
Pressure (MPa)
Fuel
Utilization factor of fuel
Utilization factor of air
1073
0.1
CH4
0.8
0.5
Cell
Size (mm)
Tubular
250 x 2.4 o.d. x 2.0 i.d.
Cell stack
Number of cells
Weight(kg)
7238 (50 kW)
15.5
Reformer
Number of tubes
Weight(kg)
Tubular type(alumina)
4088
6.1
Heat exchanger
Number of tubes
Weight(kg)
Tubular type( SUS304)
1612
2.3
SOFC
(50kW)-EV
SOFC(50kW
) -EV ICE vehicle
(km/kg-CH4)
(reduced to
km/kg -gasoline)(km/kg -gasoline)
40km/h 97 81
60km/h 95 79 28
10.15
modes 55 46 17
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All
As soon as I saw this I thought it was a great basis for a unique EV.
1966 COMMER SUNBEAM CAMPER VAN:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1875302011&category=6727
More pics here:
http://www.eventsrevisited.com/commer/index.htm
Of course you would have to do extensive modification to make it good.
You could probably make it useable with golf car/ulility vehicle components,
though I was thinking a shortened 9" Ford rear end with wheelie bars would
be nice. :^D
I've never seen one of these before. Anyone know anything about these?
Hoping this isn't too OT for most on the list.
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like there may be good news for Think
I just saw this on the Think list
Rick Woodbury Phone: (509) 624-0762
President, Commuter Cars Corporation Toll-free: (800) 468-0944
Doubling the capacity of freeways Fax: (509) 624-1466
Quadrupling the capacity of parking Cellular: (509) 979-1815
Zero to 60 in under 4 seconds
715 E. Sprague Ave., Suite 114 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Spokane, WA 99202 Web: http://www.commutercars.com
------ Forwarded Message
From: Audun Vaaler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:59:58 +0100 (CET)
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [think_ev] Breaking news: Think sold
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I found the article at
> <A
HREF="http://www.nettavisen.no/servlets/page?section=56&item=247116";>http://
www.nettavisen.no/servlets/page?section=56&item=247116</A>
> Anybody out there able to translate Norwegian to English?
Here's a quick translation. Note that the sale also includes the "Think"
and "City" brand names. The agreement will be signed in January.
The Swiss company in question is KamKorp Mictroelectronics. Is anyone on
the list familiar with that name? As far as I can see this seems like very
good news.
---
SWISS SAVE THINK
A Swiss company will buy Think, the troubled electric car maker based in
Aurskog, saving 100 jobs.
Think Nordic have been looking for a new owner since Ford Motor Company in
August decided to focus on other environmentally friendly technology.
FURTHER DEVELOPMENT
On Thursday the new owner was announced by Ford's vice president in Europe
as Swiss company KamKorp Microelectronics.
- This means that the jobs here at Aurskog will be saved, and that our
current technologies can be developed further, says head of PR Anne
S�nsteby to Nettavisen.
BRAND NAMES
The new owners will continue development and production of
battery-electric cars. As part of the agreement they will acquire the
right to use the "Think" and "City" brand names. These names were
originally not for sale.
- In the end concerns for the employees and the local community were
deciding factors. Ford think that the loss of the brand names is a small
price to pay, states Ingvar Sviggum.
- This sale is the solution that we all have been working intensively to
achieve. We have also felt that we have a commitment towards the local
community in Aurskog and the Norwegian authorities who have been
supportive during the whole process, he says.
CHRISTMAS PRESENT
KamKorp's head of business development in Europe, Bernd Winkler,
describes the agreement as a Christmas present.
- We are very satisfied with this opportunity. It's a fantastic Christmas
gift for all of us, he says.
Swiss KamKorp Mictroelectronics own a number of companies working on
product development for electric cars and different other electric
products. Thus the new owner can probably provide new battery technology,
which was the original stumbling block for the new Think City model.
- The agreement will be signed in January, and the price is secret, says
Think Nordic's very happy managing director, Ingemar Bj�rholt.
--
Audun
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------ End of Forwarded Message
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A few other details:
Whose controller will you use for 600V and what motor?
9Ah NiMH cells are often rated for ~45A discharge rate. Higher rates can
damage the interconnects. Extrapolation to the F cells means about 70A,
or 42kW at 600V. Which is a little anemic.
20Ah sanyo KR-20000M (Ni-Cd) cells are 640g each. That's 320 kg or about
705 lb. For 12 kWh. 48 miles at 250 Wh/mi, or 60 at 200.
But 144V of Saft 100ah modules weighs the same and has a bit more
capacity, as well as available motors and controllers. And ten times the
cyclic life of starved electrolyte NiMH/NiCd.
Now if you are talking about pushing buses that need 200kW, then 600v
and 350ish amps DC is nicer than 144V and 1400A, certainly, and you are
talking about one (or two) strings of 50 12V lead batteries. Now that
seems a bit more practical when you slap them all in the former CNG rack
on the roof of the bus. And someone makes a 150 or 200kW AC drive made
for 600VDC, which is probably not too disimmilar to a big industrial VFD
that runs on 480 3 phase AC.
Seth
Edward Ang wrote:
>
> --- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Botton line here, sure would be nice to glide
> > along on say 5-10 amps @
> > 600 voltsIn yur EV, but the battery thing would be
> > sorta silly, 600
> > connections to keep after.
>
> So, assuming we could insulate the 600V HV system (I
> don't see how we couldn't, didn't they just hang the
> MUNI cables in the air? ;)) and assuming we could hard
> solder the cells much like they do for notebook
> batteries or Prius batteries, and assuming we have a
> charger to charge this pack, could this be feasible in
> an EV?
>
> Say a typical EV needs 10kW at 60mph, that means
> 10kW/600V = 16.7A. So, a 34Ah pack gives 120 miles,
> 17Ah 60 miles, and a 8.5Ah 30 miles. Humm...
> interesting...
>
> If we use 13Ah Nimh cells like this
> (http://www.rabbittool.com/pages/20,21bat.html) for
> $11 each, $11x500 = $5,500 (less for high volume), it
> would give a 47-mile range. We might even put them in
> transformer cooling oil to regulate temperature ...
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
> Ed Ang
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday, December 20, 2002 9:57 AM, Rich Rudman
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> Still anybody wanna go watt for watt with me???? I bet I beat
> some pretty spendy gear with PFC, HF magnetics and a simple
> timer.
Watt for watt? Since nobody else is offering a charger at the power
level you are, this could only mean you going watt for watt against
one of the readily available lower power chargers, such as Zivan NG3
or NG5... I wouldn't bet the bank on the outcome, since your
efficiency at this reduced output level might very well not be
significantly more than the Zivan.
> Simply put the difference in battery cycle eff is very hard to
> predict.
Absolutely. But, if you benchmark each charger on the same pack it
is quite straightforward to compare overall charge cycle efficencies.
Really all I wanted to point out is that nice as a 9x% peak efficency
is, it is entirely possible for the overall charge efficiency to be
only 1-2% better than competing chargers, and it isn't impossible for
it to be worse!
> It's my goal to use as much of the line power as possible and waste
> as little as I can. That would also involve rapid charge
termination,
> and reaching end of charger without spending undue amounts of power
> doing useless equalization cycles. Just enough and no more. This
can
> be a religion unto itself.
AMEN. ;^>
> Very lightly loaded is not a really good data point for high power
> switchers. And yes a good chunk of the charge cycle may be spent
> delivering 1 to 5 % of the total power. But... you have to get
> there from here.
Yep, but this may be the achilles heel of high power chargers with
respect to overall efficiency. Typically, the higher the bulk
current, the sooner the charger exits bulk (in terms of Ah returned),
that is, pumping 50A into a pack may result in transitioning to
absorption with the pack at only 70-75% SOC while pumping 20A into
the same pack might allow bulk to continue until the pack is at
90-95% SOC. Since output power (and effciency) drop in the constant
voltage absorption phase, it is not impossible for the lower power
charger to complete the charge using less kWh due to being able to
return more of the Ah at (say) 87-89% peak efficiency even though the
higher power charger peaks at 95% efficiency.
The high power charger will get the job done faster, and that may be
the most important consideration in some situations!
> loosing %30 of your delivered power when you are only delivering
%5
> of your max is a lot better than loosing %40 of your power while
> drawing your full limit. 40 watt of losses is a lot better than
2Kw.
True enough, but do you really think that the peak efficiency of a
Zivan or Brusa (i.e. competing switchers) is only 60%-ish? I don't
have data in front of me at the moment, but I would bet it is upwards
of the mid-80's.
> Also a good portion of the losses are ouput diode conduction
losses.
Again, a problem somewhat particular to your wide output range
charger; chargers that target a narrower range of output voltages can
use better diodes since they don't have to compromise as much to get
diodes that will handle the really high output voltages as well as
the high currents.
> I will be doing some PFC20s over the Christmas week,
Hopefully not over the ~entire~ week, though PFC20's must certainly
make nice stocking stuffers! ;^>
Merry Christmas, Rich!
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Add another electric motor in place of the ICE...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Prius hacking. Alec Brooks AC Propulsion
> So with the ice out whats the problem? Lawrence Rhodes
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 5:26 PM
> Subject: Re: Prius hacking. Alec Brooks AC Propulsion
>
>
> > >Using the existing Prius drive motor, it would be a low power EV suited
> for
> > >urban travel, but would be freeway capable. (A minor modification to
the
> > >Prius transmission would eliminate the 41mph limit on electric power
> alone.)
> > >The battery should last at least 10 years and 100,000 miles.
> >
> > I don't recommend that, at least not by much! The Prius transaxle is
> > limited to 42mph because at that point the motor/generator that is
> > not turning (can't without turning the engine over) hits 6500rpm.
> > This is the factory limit for the PM rotor. In some cases the Prius
> > control system does choose to spin that M/G to go faster, but that
> > means the ICE is turning over without fuel. Not a real good choice
> > for range or energy efficiency.
> >
> > Neon
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ouch, my ears are burning. I still have my 1998 Ranger EV (lead-acid).
Ford continues to support the vehicle, even though it is presently out
of production. In fact, it recently had the battery management computer
(BCM) replaced, and a new pack installed at the tail end of last year
under warranty.
In my opinion, based on information I have gleaned from the service
manual, tech training manual, and diagnostic information, it is not an
easily tweaked vehicle like a standard conversion would be. The system
is very integrated to make it as "idiot proof" as possible. The battery
pack is a complete assembly that can swap out in under three hours like
a big cordless drill using a special lift table from under the vehicle
while it is in the air. That's not something easily or safely doable at
home without extreme measures. On the other hand, it does appear to be
far more modular and accessible than the EV1. So there is a real
possibility to make modifications, but it won't be easy.
As an example of how integrated the system is, the truck recently had a
problem after nearly a year of reliable daily service. I drove it home
from work one night and it wouldn't charge. Everything seemed to be
initialized as if it was about to start charging, but then nothing. One
of the things the BCM does, aside from monitor module voltages, current
draws, and pack temperatures, is control the pack ventilation/cooling
fan. It turns on the fan during charging. Apparently the fan was coming
on, but the BCM was ignoring the sensor that confirmed the fan was
working. So it refused to allow the charger to begin charging. Just to
be doubly-sure, Ford replaced not only the BCM but also the 6kW
charger. I have both pulled-out parts sitting in my garage.
I have few complaints about the vehicle itself. The brake vacuum pump
is unnecessarily noisy ("moo"), but quick. There is no
cabin-precondition function (USPS vehicles get this, though). The
battery pack is not user accessible. A new pack costs about $7500 from
Ford, installed, for about 1600 lbs of AGM lead.
Ultimately I may end up solving these issues with a rework of the
vehicle: install a quieter vacuum pump, "enable" cabin-preconditioning,
and weld in battery racks under a tilt bed. If I go that far, I may
retrofit advanced batteries such as NiZn, or even take a step "back"
and use flooded batteries. After all, the 67kW controller only draws
250A at full throttle (312v nominal pack), or 200A in Economy mode.
On the positive side, it is charge-and-forget. The drive train is
quieter than an EV1. The Range and SOC gauges are helpful and usually
realistic. You can query each module voltage using the diagnostic
tester via the OBD-II port. The heater and A/C are excellent, as is the
fit and finish (for a Ford Ranger). It's also very useful as a truck
with an 800-pound payload capacity, which could increase with NiZn
batteries.
I'm very interested to learn additional inside-info about the Ranger EV.
--
Geoff Shepherd
http://www.geoff.shepherd
'98 Factory Ford Ranger EV
'00 Honda Insight HEV
On Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 09:05 PM, Gary Graunke wrote:
As far as I know, the EV Rangers have had a good record of
reliability. You
might check with Geoff Shepherd, who bought his from Clayton. Geoff
has even
been getting 70 mi range, and I believe his only major wish is for more
advanced batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:20 PM 12/20/2002 -0800, Roger Stockton wrote:
Really all I wanted to point out is that nice as a 9x% peak efficency
is, it is entirely possible for the overall charge efficiency to be
only 1-2% better than competing chargers, and it isn't impossible for
it to be worse!
Hmm, so what we need is a charger made of PFC-5 modules. Controller would
keep as many modules running full-bore as possible, and just shut off
modules that aren't needed. Gang in as many as you want to pay for!
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So with the ice out whats the problem? Lawrence Rhodes
With the ICE out you don't have the planetary transmission. The motor
that powers the car with the ICE off is connected directly to the
final drive. The ICE and the other motor/generator are the two inputs
of the planet gear set (of the 3 used points - sun, planet carrier,
ring).
This leaves you with a 33kw motor direct drive 2700lbs EV. Remember,
a Curtis 1221b running 96 volts is a 38.4Kw drive, but usually given
the benefit of gears. Certainly not direct drive geared for a little
over 100mph (that is the rpm limit of the 33Kw motor).
I like my Prius, but it would be a tough EV conversion. Likely a good
one, I'm not aware of any 4 door cars widely available with a cd of
only 0.29, and the rest of the drivetrain is designed for efficiency
too. I *would* like it to be able to drive without starting the ICE,
turning it on the first time the power demand (or battery SOC)
required it (so I could move it in the driveway without starting the
ICE). That wouldn't even require a larger battery pack. Heck, I'd
trade better fuel mileage for just standard CA smog compliance too.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Funny you should mention this.. Lee Hart has designed something very similar
for the Tango, as I understand it..
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
> At 10:20 PM 12/20/2002 -0800, Roger Stockton wrote:
> >Really all I wanted to point out is that nice as a 9x% peak efficency
> >is, it is entirely possible for the overall charge efficiency to be
> >only 1-2% better than competing chargers, and it isn't impossible for
> >it to be worse!
>
> Hmm, so what we need is a charger made of PFC-5 modules. Controller would
> keep as many modules running full-bore as possible, and just shut off
> modules that aren't needed. Gang in as many as you want to pay for!
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon, I'm with you on disabling or informing the ICE
not to run until I've put a significant power demand on
the car (ie, after I've driven 3 blocks to the main road,
or I've maneuvered in the parking ramp to the exit, and
pulled out onto the roadway). Possibly 'flooring' the
throttle for the first time turns it on...
If you pull the Prius ICE, and replace it with a 40-50kw
electric motor, ... Would the Prius drivetrain cause the
electric motor to rotate backwards whereas the original
ICE possibly had enough static friction to not rotate?
Hard part is figuring out how to get the replacement electric
motor to rotate at the RPM's the Prius drivetrain is requesting.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: Prius hacking. Alec Brooks AC Propulsion
> >So with the ice out whats the problem? Lawrence Rhodes
>
> With the ICE out you don't have the planetary transmission. The motor
> that powers the car with the ICE off is connected directly to the
> final drive. The ICE and the other motor/generator are the two inputs
> of the planet gear set (of the 3 used points - sun, planet carrier,
> ring).
>
> This leaves you with a 33kw motor direct drive 2700lbs EV. Remember,
> a Curtis 1221b running 96 volts is a 38.4Kw drive, but usually given
> the benefit of gears. Certainly not direct drive geared for a little
> over 100mph (that is the rpm limit of the 33Kw motor).
>
>
> I like my Prius, but it would be a tough EV conversion. Likely a good
> one, I'm not aware of any 4 door cars widely available with a cd of
> only 0.29, and the rest of the drivetrain is designed for efficiency
> too. I *would* like it to be able to drive without starting the ICE,
> turning it on the first time the power demand (or battery SOC)
> required it (so I could move it in the driveway without starting the
> ICE). That wouldn't even require a larger battery pack. Heck, I'd
> trade better fuel mileage for just standard CA smog compliance too.
>
> Neon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
Well it finally happened1 Climbed into my faithful Raptur powered Rabbit
for the run home, keyed in and WASN'T greeted by the familiar " Click" of
the line switch as the capaciters charged. What? Got out to look, KNEW it
wasn't a blown main fuze as I had heat, OK. Checked the little control fuse.
But the controller cooling fan was running constantly, like an overheat
mode, which it wasn't as the car had been sitting about 8 hours.Little amber
lite was on, the one rite next to the control pots on the circuit board, yu
can see peeking out of the purple box. Only untoward operating condition was
that we are in a monsoon season, here in CT Rain, Rain and MORE rain. Been
nice today, opened up car to let EVerything dry out, hood open, etc. But it
looks l;ike MORE #$%^ Rain, now! Maybe things inside got wet? I'm thinking,
duz yellow lite mean a wet or damp condition? Canyu dry things out with a
hairdrier? Would it dry out on it's own, over time?
Amy Ideas?
Drivin' gasidisticly
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Assuming the Raptor works like my T-Rex, the little yellow light is the
WOT (Wide Open Throttle) indicator. This is used during the installation
process to calibrate the throttle (with the motor disconnected) and
otherwise should only come on when driving at sufficient speed to get
the controller full "on". (At 120 volts I saw this fairly often... at
176 volts I never get to that stage any more).
Do you have the remote that goes with the controller? Should have three
lights: green one is power on (comes on after pre-charge completes),
yellow one is duplicate WOT, and red one is over heat/trouble. Various
combinations may give clues as to what is happening. Note none of them
specifically indicate too much water ;-)
Unless you have evidence that water got in, I'd be more inclined to
check all connections, maybe try a throttle calibration routine, and
then go to the top and call Damon (where it's 3 hours earlier).
Bob Rice wrote:
Hi All;
Well it finally happened1 Climbed into my faithful Raptur powered Rabbit
for the run home, keyed in and WASN'T greeted by the familiar " Click" of
the line switch as the capaciters charged. What? Got out to look, KNEW it
wasn't a blown main fuze as I had heat, OK. Checked the little control fuse.
But the controller cooling fan was running constantly, like an overheat
mode, which it wasn't as the car had been sitting about 8 hours.Little amber
lite was on, the one rite next to the control pots on the circuit board, yu
can see peeking out of the purple box. Only untoward operating condition was
that we are in a monsoon season, here in CT Rain, Rain and MORE rain. Been
nice today, opened up car to let EVerything dry out, hood open, etc. But it
looks l;ike MORE #$%^ Rain, now! Maybe things inside got wet? I'm thinking,
duz yellow lite mean a wet or damp condition? Canyu dry things out with a
hairdrier? Would it dry out on it's own, over time?
Amy Ideas?
Drivin' gasidisticly
Bob
--
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence wrote:
> > THINGS THAT MAKE YOU GO HUM-VEE
> > Tax deductions granted by the federal government to small-business
> > owners and the self-employed provide an incentive to purchase
> > oversize, gas-guzzling vehicles like a General Motors Hummer, rather
> > than small, more fuel-efficient cars like the hybrid Toyota Prius.
> > An eligible buyer of a 2003 Hummer H2 could deduct $34,912 of the
> > base price of the vehicle, for a tax savings of up to $13,500 for
> > those in the highest tax bracket.
Plus the accelerated depreciation and front-loaded expensing that was added since, and
the Bushies are proposing even more
Corporate Welfare.
It's all about the benjamins.
Vince
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been wanting a remote display for the e-meter to have inside the
house... thanks to the EVDash software the display itself is easy enough
to accomplish with a ~$100 Palm.
However, the only wireless RS-232 transceivers I can find would cost
$700 for the pair. Throw in a dc/dc convertor and other widgets and it
becomes a $900+ project.
Any ideas for a simpler approach?
In the car would be:
- e-meter with rs-232 port
- wireless rs-232 transceiver
- dc/dc convertor to supply power to the transceiver
In the house (eventually in one box) would be
- Wireless rs-232 transceiver
- Palm PDA with rs-232 cable and EVDash software
- box for above and power supply(s) to power from 120 VAC
Details of the transceiver are at
http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?sku=200-232-DC
Details of the software are at
http://www.ohler.com/palm/EVDash/index.html
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James wrote:
> Not too shabby, but they are HEAVY!
Egads, 525 lbs. Plus a higher voltage batt pack would add even more weight.
Too bad. Cheap cheap.
Vince
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been planning something similar to this for a while (to monitor
charging) but I was just thinking of putting a small computer in the
car with a wireless ethernet card and a web interface to monitor the
e-meter.
Of course I've had the computer for 3 years and it is now desperately
obsolete and still sitting under my desk waiting for me to install it
and write the software...
I have a couple of wireless modems that I got a while ago for doing
something like this but I never got them to work. I needed to get
antennas for them (900 mhz). I think they are made by proxim.
-Jeremy
On Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 09:17 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
I've been wanting a remote display for the e-meter to have inside the
house... thanks to the EVDash software the display itself is easy
enough to accomplish with a ~$100 Palm.
However, the only wireless RS-232 transceivers I can find would cost
$700 for the pair. Throw in a dc/dc convertor and other widgets and it
becomes a $900+ project.
Any ideas for a simpler approach?
In the car would be:
- e-meter with rs-232 port
- wireless rs-232 transceiver
- dc/dc convertor to supply power to the transceiver
In the house (eventually in one box) would be
- Wireless rs-232 transceiver
- Palm PDA with rs-232 cable and EVDash software
- box for above and power supply(s) to power from 120 VAC
Details of the transceiver are at
http://www.bb-elec.com/product.asp?sku=200-232-DC
Details of the software are at
http://www.ohler.com/palm/EVDash/index.html
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Wish you a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
http://members.fortunecity.com/aquariangenius/xmas.swf
Prasad
http://www.geocities.com/aquariangenius
http://members.fortunecity.com/aquariangenius
_____________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Well I can now answer the question of why to use GFCI outlet even with
> an onboard Isolated Charger?
>
> So I dropped the end of a 240 cord connected to a 50 amp outlet in the
> sump pump hole.
Mark,
You're not auditioning for that Jackass show are you ?
;)
Vince
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
finding a dry place to mount the controller is always a problem for me .
will be watching for the answer to your controller problem .I have a t-rex
(let me go check and see if he's dry)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 11:54 AM
Subject: Raptur Problem
> Hi All;
>
> Well it finally happened1 Climbed into my faithful Raptur powered Rabbit
> for the run home, keyed in and WASN'T greeted by the familiar " Click" of
> the line switch as the capaciters charged. What? Got out to look, KNEW it
> wasn't a blown main fuze as I had heat, OK. Checked the little control
fuse.
> But the controller cooling fan was running constantly, like an overheat
> mode, which it wasn't as the car had been sitting about 8 hours.Little
amber
> lite was on, the one rite next to the control pots on the circuit board,
yu
> can see peeking out of the purple box. Only untoward operating condition
was
> that we are in a monsoon season, here in CT Rain, Rain and MORE rain. Been
> nice today, opened up car to let EVerything dry out, hood open, etc. But
it
> looks l;ike MORE #$%^ Rain, now! Maybe things inside got wet? I'm
thinking,
> duz yellow lite mean a wet or damp condition? Canyu dry things out with a
> hairdrier? Would it dry out on it's own, over time?
>
> Amy Ideas?
>
> Drivin' gasidisticly
>
> Bob
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would call it the upwind side of Puget Sound.
Welcome back Rod.
Killer commute, huh?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 10:21 AM
Subject: Re: Oops, Re: Update on Tilley's Delorian
> Manzanita Micro would like to welcome Rod and Joanne of Evparts Back to
> the Good side of Puget Sound.
>
> Now instead of handing off chargers to Rod on his way to the ferry, I
> get to drive them up to Pt Townsend.
>
> Funny how the opinions of our employers are infact are own!!
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich rejected the stacked power stage idea because he wanted the footprint
of the PFC50 to be similar to the PFC-20. If we had used the stacked design
on the PFC-50, it would have been either twice as tall or twice as wide as
the PFC-20. Rich wanted the box proportions and airflow to stay about the
same as the PFC-20 (approximately a 1:2:4 ratio for the height, width and
length with the air flowing lengthwise from one small side to the other).
The stacked power stage was seriously considered for quite a while but was
ultimately rejected for production.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:39 AM
Subject: RE: Rudman PFC charger efficiency vs others
> At 10:20 PM 12/20/2002 -0800, Roger Stockton wrote:
> >Really all I wanted to point out is that nice as a 9x% peak efficency
> >is, it is entirely possible for the overall charge efficiency to be
> >only 1-2% better than competing chargers, and it isn't impossible for
> >it to be worse!
>
> Hmm, so what we need is a charger made of PFC-5 modules. Controller would
> keep as many modules running full-bore as possible, and just shut off
> modules that aren't needed. Gang in as many as you want to pay for!
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob -
So far as I know, the little yellow light on the front of the purple
box means that it thinks your go pedal is all the way down and it is
trying to be safe by not going until you back off. We have been
getting hammered with this rain up here in Maine and my Raptor's
throttle sensor has been a bit funky too, although it is ok now. Mine
just seemed to have a current limit of 300 amps, which was ok as long
as I didn't need to go over about 55 MPH. I would say have a look at
the wiring and wetness between the throttle sensor and then Raptor. It
might need to be recalibrated, but I doubt it. Mine fixed itself when
it dried out a bit this afternoon
Thanks again for all the batteries! Looks like I got one dud - 11
volts at rest, goes up to 14.8 as soon as I put it on the charger, then
right back to 11 as soon as the charger is taken off. Any charging
cautions or recommendations with these fancy sealed batts?
I got started working on the Datsun 240Z the other day - what fun to
be getting my hands dirty again! Engine's almost ready to be pulled.
What a mess though! The engine as a whole is in pretty good shape, but
there's coolant solidifying in places, easting away metal, and the
carbs are all gummed up. There's this crazy formerly-gasoline powdery
stuff in the intake manifold too! Crazy!
See ya, good luck with the Raptor
Seth
On Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 02:54 PM, Bob Rice wrote:
Hi All;
Well it finally happened1 Climbed into my faithful Raptur powered
Rabbit
for the run home, keyed in and WASN'T greeted by the familiar " Click"
of
the line switch as the capaciters charged. What? Got out to look, KNEW
it
wasn't a blown main fuze as I had heat, OK. Checked the little control
fuse.
But the controller cooling fan was running constantly, like an overheat
mode, which it wasn't as the car had been sitting about 8 hours.Little
amber
lite was on, the one rite next to the control pots on the circuit
board, yu
can see peeking out of the purple box. Only untoward operating
condition was
that we are in a monsoon season, here in CT Rain, Rain and MORE rain.
Been
nice today, opened up car to let EVerything dry out, hood open, etc.
But it
looks l;ike MORE #$%^ Rain, now! Maybe things inside got wet? I'm
thinking,
duz yellow lite mean a wet or damp condition? Canyu dry things out
with a
hairdrier? Would it dry out on it's own, over time?
Amy Ideas?
Drivin' gasidisticly
Bob
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
