EV Digest 2517
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: gimme a brake ...
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: basic and very much On Topic (was basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC
motor)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 110v AVCON Adapter
by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: gimme a brake ...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: gimme a brake ...
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Already Licensed Electric
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: gimme a brake ...
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Radio Media opportunity
by Joseph Vaughn-Perling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Charging questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by "VanDerWal, Peter MSgt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: gimme a brake ...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: gimme a brake ...
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Offering FREE 1987 VW Scirocco for Conversion!!!
by "Charles Nickel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) 110v AVCON Adapter
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV digest 2516
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: gimme a break ...
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) OT - but of interest, GM announcement
by "Tony McCormick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) 2nd EVer EAA Chapters Conference 3/28 & Tour de Arizona 3/29
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Charging questions
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: gimme a brake ...
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Be careful with those ceramic pads, stopping comes with a price, we tried
those on the fleet trucks and the pads lasted a little longer but the rotors
were trashed, I prefer to use the softer pads and replace them more often
and NOT turn the rotors.
my two pads worth.
From: "Jim Coate"
> Since then I have also heard of Ceramic pads for severe duty use. No
> first-hand experience. About $45 at JC Whitney.
>
> Good luck on the job.
>
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S-10
> 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andre Blanchard wrote:
> Are all universal motors, series wound? Could a shunt field winding
> work with AC and DC or would the reactance/impedance change too much?
Yes, you can have a universal shunt motor. But, they usually don't build
them that way. The problem is that the shunt field has a lot of
inductance, and the armature doesn't. So the field current lags the
armature current. This degrades the shunt motor's nice constant-speed
characteristics and increases brush arcing. As a result, designers will
use an induction motor instead of a universal shunt motor when the
application calls for constant speed.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
+ I have sucessfully used a 240<->120 isolation transformer, but it is
+ about 100 lbs.
Judging by the max input power that the Soleq EVcort's onboard charger
would accept, the transformer in this case wouldn't be nearly this
large. But relatively speaking, it would still be a rather large
transformer... and wouldn't exactly cost $5.
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From my experience they ask these questions just because unless you
input anything, their computer won't allow to look beyond the
screen requiring engine info, even if you're looking for
door handle or rear mirror.
Chances are, brake pads are the same.
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> When I put the parking brake on, it goes too close to the
> floor to hold on steep grades, and my brake pedal goes to
> the floor to engage. Time for new pads.
>
> To get a price on jsut to the pads to knows the costs if
> I get a quote from a service center, I went to a Kragen's
> auto store.
>
> They asked my if my 1985 S-10 Blazer was a 4 cyl or a 6.
> Would there be two different brake pads that would fitt
> on the same wheel?
>
> I would assume the 6 cyl would be a bigger or beefier
> pad, I would want that for the added weight of my conversion.
>
> The helpful young man told me they did not offer an organic
> pad, but did offer a 2 year pad or a metal pad with a
> life time warrentee.
>
> I need some advise on replacement brake pads.
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > I need some advise on replacement brake pads.
>
> Soon after I got my truck, the front brakes were in need of
> replacement pads. From the local parts store I went with the
> "heavy duty" instead of "regular" (not sure of material) that
> they claimed would outlast the car. Of course with heavy EV
> and no regen I wore them out in a couple of years and
> generated a lot of brake dust that kept the front wheels looking ugly.
>
> Last year I put in "TITANIUM ti" pads that are supposed to be
> even more heavy duty. So far have generated a lot less dust
> as promised, too early to tell the life span. About $30 at JC Whitney.
>
> Since then I have also heard of Ceramic pads for severe duty
> use. No first-hand experience. About $45 at JC Whitney.
Just about all the descriptions I've seen on this thread so far look
like pure marketing hype. For example, there's probably little, if any,
titanium in those pads. It's just a name.
One thing to remember is that "heavy duty" or metallic pads can (though
not necessarily) wear out you rotors prematurely. They can (though not
necessarily) require higher pedal effort due to a lower coefficient of
friction. They can also (though not necessarily) provide *worse*
braking in some circumstances because they need to be brought up to
temperature before they grip properly. When you're braking from high
speed, getting maximum WHOA just as you hit the pedal is the key to
short stopping distances.
I've heard lots of good things about EBC "Green Stuff" pads. I just put
a set on my Honda Accord, but they're not even bedded in yet so I can't
comment. They are supposed to dust much less than "standard" pads. The
write-up on the box implies they may provide less life than other pads.
Their claim to fame is that they have a significantly higher coefficient
of friction, while maintaining excellent fade resistance. This can be
very useful on a heavier-than-original EV, especially those without
power brakes. It means less push is required for the same amount of
stop.
I got mine at http://www.tirerack.com/. They're probably available lots
of other places.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got my "conversion" licensed as an electric today! Whoo-hoo! Read
on for the long tale:
I figured I was getting the cart horse here, about to put a motor on
order when I couldn't even prove I owned the car! I could picture it
in my head, beating Berube on the drag strip, going 100 miles in the
Tour Del Sol, going 260 mph on the Salt Flats... (all in air
conditioned comfort) While taking the SCCA national fastest overall
time championship trophy the men in dark suits and glasses slap
handcuffs on me... An evil auto exec luridly smirks and says, "Yes
officers, that car's loan was never paid off." Then, "What did he do
to it? It's electric? Send it to the crusher!"
I snapped out of my reverie, and realized I better title this car in
my name before I did anything too expensive or hard to reverse to it.
There's always the chance the previous owner didn't pay off a loan on
it or something.
I went a bit nervously. I had bought it two years ago (time flies,
luckily I enjoy just looking at the car...). I could picture late
fines. I also didn't have a notarized releasing signature from the
previous owner.
No problem, the lady was nice. She asked if everything was correct on
the title. I pointed out a mistake on the model. I also told her it
was going to be a project car, any special problems with that? She
asked, "Is it still going to be six cylinders?" I told her it was
going to be electric, and held my breath.
"OK, we'll title it as electric then." Wow, that was easy! No
inspection, no nothing!
I should have just run out at that point, but nooooooo, I had to ask
another question. "So what next? Once it is running what do I do?"
She didn't know, and disappeared for a long time. My anxiety grew. I
could just picture some former Nazi torture specialist supervisor
coming out and saying "He has not suffered enough!" and then slapping
down several thousand pages of forms, regulations, and affidavits to
fill out, necessitating trips to mechanics, congressmen, and the
factory of the vehicle origin in Germany (with the vehicle, of
course).
She came out and said, "No problem, just take the car to any
inspection station for a safety inspection. You don't need to do
emissions inspections."
Whoo-hoo! Couldn't have gone better! Sounds like licensing, once
running, should be pretty easy. Now I just have to make it live up to
its title and convert it to electric power!
=====
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I bought real Ford pads ($60) for my Fiesta it was easy to stop.
Cheap pads ($15 or $20) required alot more pedal pressure.
GM put low friction pads on the Citation, claiming it improved fuel
economy. I doubt that is enough of an effect to worry about in an EV,
but maybe higher friction pads would cut range a bit.
--- Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> I've heard lots of good things about EBC "Green Stuff" pads. I
> just put
> a set on my Honda Accord, but they're not even bedded in yet so I
> can't
> comment. They are supposed to dust much less than "standard" pads.
> The
> write-up on the box implies they may provide less life than other
> pads.
> Their claim to fame is that they have a significantly higher
> coefficient
> of friction, while maintaining excellent fade resistance. This can
> be
> very useful on a heavier-than-original EV, especially those without
> power brakes. It means less push is required for the same amount
> of
> stop.
> ...
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Today from 1:00-2:30 PST, Kitty Felde will be conducting her "Talk of the
City" show on KPCC - 89.3 from the LA Auto Show. She wants people to call
in to tell listeners what they look for when contemplating an energy
efficient car.
This is a great opportunity for those of us in the SoCal Area to speak for
EVs. It's not too difficult to get on the show, although you might be on
hold for a while. Call 866-893-5722.
--
____
__/o|__\~ ~ ~
`@ -----@`---(=
http://www.SoCalEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jay Donnaway wrote:
> I discovered that my vintage Craftsman electric lawnmower does
> indeed have a universal motor. On 12VDC it spins much more slowly,
> but without the annoying grating noise that has always accompanied
> 120VAC operation. With a quick test, I didn't notice much more
> speed at 24 VDC. If I use some small, sealed lead-acid deep-cycle
> "Power Wheels" 12V batteries in series to get 36 volts or more, can
> I expect to get close to full speed operation?
No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either AC or DC.
You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance. I did this
for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having to manage 60
2v cells was a pain.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 17:36, Lee Hart wrote:
> No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either AC or DC.
> You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance. I did this
> for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having to manage 60
> 2v cells was a pain.
Would it make sense then to use a 12V battery and an 120Vac inverter?
Then you could parallel 3 12v batteries for extended aH, and use some
"hardware store" inverter, and get the speed of 120v instead of 36v.
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote:
> Has anybody had the worst (bad boy) and the best BMS (?) in the same
> car and gone through two sets of batteries? What was the difference
> in miles?
I don't know of any one person who has performed such an experiment. The
best we can do is probably compare "similar" cars owned by different
people that used the same batteries but different battery management
systems.
>From this sort of data, I think it is safe to say that a good battery
management system (whether automatic, or just a person who watches and
maintains them) dramatically increases battery life.
> I have been forwarding a lot of the Battery info to the people
> driving my conversions and they all think I'm nuts. Now they are
> all using Golf cart batteries and they all do put water in their
> batteries but that pretty much it.
Floodeds are pretty tough. If nothing goes wrong, this should be
sufficient. It assumes you don't run them dead, and that your charger is
reasonably well designed so it shuts off at the proper level.
But if there is no automatic or manual monitoring, a minor problem will
get worse until it causes an expensive failure. A loose terminal turns
into a melted post. A weak battery reverses cell and geysers acid all
over.
> In my work truck I have a 11 position switch and can look at and
> charge any 2 (2x6=12v) batteries off a solar panel.
That's a good manual system.
> The batts are a year old and stay to my surprise with in .05 volts
> of each other
That says you're doing things right.
> except for the 2 that the E-meter runs off of and I can see that
> they have been damaged by this BAD SETUP... the two running the
> meter .25v lower that the rest
Yup. Now you see why!
> I have found that leaving the solar panel on for 5 to 10 min is
> all that's needed to put the low ones higher that the high ones.
Must be a big panel!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either AC or DC.
>> You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance. I did this
>> for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having to manage 60
>> 2v cells was a pain.
>
>Would it make sense then to use a 12V battery and an 120Vac inverter?
>
>Then you could parallel 3 12v batteries for extended aH, and use some
>"hardware store" inverter, and get the speed of 120v instead of 36v.
You have a hardware store that sells 2kw inverters? How much?
Note: The lawn mower probably only draws 1 to 1.5 kw, but surge power could
conceivably be 2 to 3kw.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 16:47, VanDerWal, Peter MSgt wrote:
> >> No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either AC or DC.
> >> You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance. I did this
> >> for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having to manage 60
> >> 2v cells was a pain.
> >
> >Would it make sense then to use a 12V battery and an 120Vac inverter?
> >
> >Then you could parallel 3 12v batteries for extended aH, and use some
> >"hardware store" inverter, and get the speed of 120v instead of 36v.
>
> You have a hardware store that sells 2kw inverters? How much?
>
> Note: The lawn mower probably only draws 1 to 1.5 kw, but surge power could
> conceivably be 2 to 3kw.
I didn't realize it would be that much. But if you look here:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LLCategoryDisplayView?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=726075&categoryId=92
$600: 3kW with 6kW surge
$500: 1.75kW with 3kW surge
$350: 1.5kW with 3kW surge
Not overly cheap (the smaller ones that I had in mind are less than
$100). However, it's another alternative that allows full speed without
major battery management.
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A couple of thoughts on this thread;
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> When I put the parking brake on, it goes too close to the
> floor to hold on steep grades, and my brake pedal goes to
> the floor to engage. Time for new pads.
If your parking brake goes to the floor and your brake pedal is low as well,
your pads (meaning the front disc brake pads) are uninvolved. Your front
disc brakes are inherently self-adjusting, so any pedal height issues are
caused either by rear brake adjustment (rear brakes have a self-adjusting
mechanism, but they don't always work properly) or a hydraulic problem, air
in the lines, bad master cylinder, etc.
You may indeed need front pads, and they should be inspected, but replacing
them will not fix your problem.
<<Jim Coate wrote:
Be careful with those ceramic pads, stopping comes with a price, we tried
those on the fleet trucks and the pads lasted a little longer but the rotors
were trashed, I prefer to use the softer pads and replace them more often
and NOT turn the rotors.>>
I would be cautious here.
Your Blazer is heavy, and the brakes are under-engineered enough as it is.
Putting softer pads on to save a little rotor money may not be prudent.
I keep 2 sets of pads for my Blazer, a set of Bendix's best quality pad for
daily driving and a set of full metallic racing pads for when I tow, and I
tow some hefty loads with my poor little truck.
In the past I tried the softer pad rout and was thoroughly dissatisfied, as
all the cheaper, softer pads I tried faded horribly at the slightest
provocation, and were unsafe.
GM put metallic pads on Blazers so they would actually stop.
Bruce, get your Blazer to a competent, trusted technician and have him (or
her) do a thorough inspection of your entire braking system. Avoid chain
shops like the plague (i.e., Brake Stop, Brake Shop, etc.) If they advertise
with coupons, it's because they don't get repeat customers! Don't be shy
about spending a few extra bucks on premium pads and shoes, or replacing the
rear brake hardware and self adjusting mechanisms. I was never happy with
mine until I went this route.
Hope this helps,
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce, the first thing you need is a complete brake inspection. There are
a number of things that can cause the symptoms you describe besides
worn pads. If your Blazer hasn't had a complete brake overhaul in
recent years, then it likely needs a number of things done to its brakes.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:05 PM
Subject: gimme a brake ...
> When I put the parking brake on, it goes too close to the
> floor to hold on steep grades, and my brake pedal goes to
> the floor to engage. Time for new pads.
>
> To get a price on jsut to the pads to knows the costs if
> I get a quote from a service center, I went to a Kragen's
> auto store.
>
> They asked my if my 1985 S-10 Blazer was a 4 cyl or a 6.
> Would there be two different brake pads that would fitt
> on the same wheel?
>
> I would assume the 6 cyl would be a bigger or beefier
> pad, I would want that for the added weight of my conversion.
>
> The helpful young man told me they did not offer an organic
> pad, but did offer a 2 year pad or a metal pad with a
> life time warrentee.
>
> I need some advise on replacement brake pads.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am offering my 1987 VW Scirocco FREE to anyone looking for a
conversion body. I purchased it to do my own conversion, but I'm
not going to manage to invest enough time or money in it. I have
already stripped out all combustion/fuel/cooling items, and the manual
tranny is sitting in the back right now. It's BEGGING for a better owner
than I to follow through with the committment. The car is located in
Hayward, CA, and all you have to do is arrange to pick it up (tow it, obviously!).
Call me at 510 582 1422, or email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ask for
Charles.
Did I mention that it is FREE?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Mason!
Long time, bruh.
You talking like pounding the copper rod grounding whenever I charge @
AVCON?
If it can be done with a transformer I assume we're talking a big stepdown
from 220>110?
I'll bet that transformer will be cheaper than a new charger.
You think? (heh)
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
on 1/7/03 12:01 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> From: Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 08:27:31 -0700 (MST)
> To: EV Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: 110v AVCON Adapter
>
>
> + Can I run one of those AVCON adapter boxes and only use one of the hots?
>
> My understanding is that the AVCON units normally do not supply a
> neutral at the output connector, so there's no way to get 110 from one
> of the hots unless you use ground (not good). You can do it, but
> you're going to need to use a big transformer in conjunction with the
> adapter box.
>
>
>
> -~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
>
> website. http://www.1opossum.com
> email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
> Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info. Yeah, 100 lbs might be pushing it a little. Guess I'm
destined to crashing through the landscaping in constant search of outdoor
edison receptacles instead.
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
"It's too easy, Danno"
Steve McGarrett- HAWAII 5-0
on 1/7/03 12:01 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> From: Jon Knepher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:13:46 -0800
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: 110v AVCON Adapter
>
>> ----- Message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------
>> Here's another question regarding the AVCON:
>> Can I run one of those AVCON adapter boxes and only use one of the hots?
>> My charger is 110v but can draw 30A.
>> I use a NEMA 14-50 receptacle in my garage- but only one of the hots is
>> connected in my charge cord.
>> Just wondering...and hoping...
>> J. Marvin Campbell
>> Culver City, CA
>
> No. You must pull power symetrically from the two hots. There is no neutral,
> and you cannot move any current through the saftey ground. You will need to
> use a 240VAC charger, or a transformer of some sort to make 120 out of the
> 208-
> 240 without a neutral (pretty heavy). The charger is very sensitive to Ground
> Fault, so any current through the ground will send the charger into 'service
> required' disconnect. I have sucessfully used a 240<->120 isolation
> transformer, but it is about 100 lbs.
>
> Jon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you all for some really good information, experience, and
advice.
It sounds like I had better
find a good place
do a complete brake system check
pull the wheels to know what shoes and pads I currently have,
and consider my show and pad options at the service center.
Thanks :-)
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
so if a universal motor runs the same on ac as dc then dose it look to its
source as a resistive load and not inductive load?I know there must be some
inductance as we get volts converted to amps with PWM '. I would think the
inductance would go up with rpm.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Donnaway" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 7:56 AM
Subject: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
> Working on my first 'EV' with what dangerously basic knowledge I've gained
> from this list, I discovered that my vintage Craftsman electric lawnmower
> does indeed have a universal motor. On 12VDC it spins much more slowly,
but
> without the annoying grating noise that has always accompanied 120VAC
> operation. With a quick test, I didn't notice much more speed at 24 VDC.
> If I use some small, sealed lead-acid deep-cycle "Power Wheels" 12V
> batteries in series to get 36 volts or more, can I expect to get close to
> full speed operation?
> Thanks
>
> Jay Donnaway
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lonnie Borntreger wrote:
>
> On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 17:36, Lee Hart wrote:
> > No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either AC or DC.
> > You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance. I did this
> > for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having to manage 60
> > 2v cells was a pain.
>
> Would it make sense then to use a 12V battery and an 120Vac inverter?
>
> Then you could parallel 3 12v batteries for extended aH, and use some
> "hardware store" inverter, and get the speed of 120v instead of 36v.
Yes, that would work. But I had a bunch of cheap surplus Gates 8v 2.5ah
gel-cell packs. I just wired them all in series, and ran the mower off
them. The charger was just a "bad boy" bridge rectifier. I maintained
them manually, by unplugging and checking each 8v pack separately.
I used it a few years, then moved to a house with a steep slope to the
yard. It was too difficult to push the mower up and down the hills, so I
converted it back to corded. Also, I had half a dozen of the Gates cells
fail. Not too surprising; they were then 10 years old!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to the Washington Post, GM "offered detailed plans to boost
the fuel economy of its most popular cars and trucks by as much as 50
percent, beginning with two pickup trucks on the 2003 model year."
P.S.: The full text of the Post article is at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6319-2003Jan3.html
Tony
---------------------------------------------------------------
My Web: http://www.notebene.net/ - EV Web: http://www.oeva.org/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Riding shotgun on an avalanche..."
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--- Begin Message ---
-
Please see http://phoenixeaa.com/tour/ for the latest
updates.
2nd EVer EAA Chapters Conference
EVent will start Friday 28 March, with registration at 5PM
at the Arizona Public Service Arizona Tower II in Downtown
Phoenix. A social mixer with food & drink, begins the
meeting. An APS Hydrogen Power guest speaker is planned. A
Tour de AZ presentation for EVolunteers before wrapping up
the EVening around 10:30PM.
Tour de Arizona
10AM-4PM on Saturday, 29 March: a 6-hour fun run in the
Phoenix sun, a great & green urban EV road rally in the
Valley of the Sun.
Saturday, 29 March, 8AM we'll have coffee & pastries for
EVolunteers. At 9:30AM, the EVolunteers take positions at
the for looping 70-80 miles around the Valley of the Sun.
And another group of EV'rs will roll in the opposite loop
direction.
After the TdeAZ, we gather at SWEET TOMATOES at 7:30. for
an endless amount of eats & drinks at a low price. We'll
arrange to section off for guest speakers.
On Sunday morn, 30 March, we do a Brunch/Awards Ceremony at
a restaurant on The Lakes in Tempe, AZ, from 9AM -1PM with
electric boating.
Jerry Asher
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Auto Association
http://eaaev.org
-
=====
' ____
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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- Begin Message ---
Something that always bugs me about this engine on-off business,
and that is how do you keep the pollution controls, namely the
catalytic converter, warm when the engine is not running? You
can probably run a heater wire to keep the cat hot, but then that
is energy that is being continuously consumed. Also oil pressure
could be an issue. Starting an engine is when most of the wear
occurs, because you don't have an oil film built up. Apparently
Toyota and Honda (think they) have these problems licked - I
rarely hear it discussed.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > VW had a diesel for a while that would shut off, and restart
when you
> > hit the accelerator.
>
> There's nothing particularly difficult about it. Lots of
vehicles have
> had it; lawn maintenance equipment and golf carts come to mind.
It just
> means you need a starter and battery built to be used more
often.
>
> In cold climates, people sell black boxes that will
automatically start
> and stop your parked car engine to keep the engine and interior
warm.
> They can be installed in almost any car.
>
> > Another variant on the idea: 1st gear is pure electric, ICE
motor
> > starts when you shift to 2nd.
>
> That's a neat idea. It fits right in with how a normal person
drives a
> stick shift car. It could be a problem with an automatic,
though,
> because people don't shift it.
>
> > I originally was going to build a hybrid, but after doing the
math I
> > realized I would be hard pressed to do as well as a VW turbo
diesel,
> > I then decided to do pure EV instead. It was like 10%
improvement vs.
> > infinite improvement.
>
> Note my signature lines. Perfection is the enemy of Good. If
you wait
> for a perfect solution, you will have nothing in the meantime
(for
> example, waiting for Detroit to build fuel cell cars). Do what
you can
> TODAY!
>
> The problems of air pollution and burning oil are huge, and
government
> and industry are doing almost nothing about them. Whatever we
can do, we
> MUST do!
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -
Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> P.S. anybody want any rabbit parts? Great body, thrashed
interior.
I doubt you're in the Bay Area, but I'll ask anyways as to your
location. Always looking for good parts for the Yellow Banana.
And what year is your Rabbit? Also was curious as to the year of
your 4Runner that you're going to convert to hybrid electric, and
how many miles does it have on the odometer? Any idea as to the
mpg that it was able to obtain? I have an '86.
Thanks,
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ditto, on hesitancy. For this pack, my second, with about 1.5
years EV usage on it (Trojan T-125s), I'll basically charge it up
everyday I use it. However, the change for this pack is that
I'll take them up to just below gassing, but not gas them. Every
weekend or so, or if they're going to sit for awhile, I'll give
them what some EV'ers have called a "finish charge", where I take
each 6V batt up to about 7.55V for a few hours. An equalize
charge occurs about once a month, where I take them up to about
7.7-7.8V per 6V batt for about 2-3 hours. Stir the juices and
bring up the cells that have fallen behind. Try to temperature
compensate at 0.028Vpc/10-degF from 77-degF. My usual trip is
5-10 miles with plenty of hills (sustained (30sec - 1 minute)
300+A on 96V-nominal) pack here in Marin. I kinda figure my
half-discharge point is about 25 miles, depending on how well the
batteries are cycled and whether I have any cell funk going on.
My first pack, which I got 5-6 years out of (but it was tough
with the used battery scene towards the end), were US2300s. This
pack I started out doing a finish charge every cycle, then got
more aggressive with them and ran them up to about 7.7-7.8V/batt
(just cranked the K&W voltage pot full clockwise) every cycle. I
got the best range for the car when I did this (out to 72 miles
on one charge, and several 60 milers), but it certainly uses more
kwhs. Eventually I backed off the 7.7-7.8V bit.
You talk to people, and it seems to be all over the map. One
EV'er I know (who has on the order of 20 years experience driving
EVs) rarely gases his flooded 6V'ers (US125s). He typically gets
five years on a pack, maybe having to replace one battery. He
admits he won't get as much range. Others I talk to say you need
a finish charge everytime (like set that Zivan K-2 to go at
7.55V/6V in the yellow-light mode (constant current) for three
hours). I don't trust automatic chargers to do that kind of
thing anymore (pack imbalance or hot pack will screw you up).
Look at the off-grid RE people, and their stationary flooded
battery banks. I don't think these people are gassing their
T-125s, L-16 or 2V floodeds everytime. However, I saw a recent
HomePower video that claimed something to the effect that the
batteries seem to do best if they are bubbling away frequently.
These batteries don't likely see the amp draws that we have in
our EVs, nor some of the really deep discharges; also vehicle
vibration.
Charging is a black art. I don't think most people are going to
put up with it (what a lot of us go through trying to keep our
batteries running well), and it will require sophisticated
idiotproof battery management to make batteries work for most
people.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: Charging questions
> This is probably one of the most kicked around
> questions on the list.
> People tell you to keep the batteries charged up to
> have the most range when you need it, and make them
> last longer. You'll also hear that a partial drawdown
> doesn't constitute a full, true, "cycle".
> People also tell you to draw the batteries down
> over a few trips on three consecutive days, so that
> the batteries are accustomed to being drawn down, and
> that fewer cycles (discharge-recharge) means a longer
> life.
> As a result, after 4 years of being on the list and
> driving an EV, I'm still hesitant on what to do. (;-p
>
> --- Johanna and Stan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > If you've only driven a few miles, how long can you
> > let the batteries sit
> > before charging?
> > Our Trojan flooded lead acid batteries can be drawn
> > down to 80%. If we only
> > draw them down to 95 or 90% and then charge them,
> > does that constitute a
> > charging cycle?
> > Would it be better to keep drawing the batteries
> > down the following day and
> > then charge them or should they be charged every day
> > the car is driven?
> >
> > Johanna and Stan Soliday
> >
>
>
> =====
> Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
> ____
> /__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the
steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
On the Rabbit, when we did the conversion back in '94, we
refurbished the brakes with organic linings. On my steep (~20%
grade) hill coming down from the apt, I wanted to know if I could
stop myself in case my front hydraulic brakes failed. So headed
down the hill and pulled up on the emergency brake handle between
the seats. No stop. No fastah, but no stop. The rear brake
linings were the first to go, inside of 10K miles. Hmm, not
good, I thought EVs were supposed to have lower maintenance...
So, Preston, the fellow EV'er who helped me convert my vehicle,
had had good experience with carbon-kevlar linings from
Porterfield on his VW Vanagon. I ordered up a set of shoes with
carbon-kevlar street linings for the rear drums and we installed
them. They have basically exceeded my expectations, and they're
still going strong some 10K+ miles and several years later. Back
to the hill test, and I was impressed! Yank, and come to a
sliding stop, locking up the wheels. Can be done repeatedly and
rather reliably, although it's tough on rear tires :-|. So I
now felt safer against a runaway on my hill. Next up, my front
organics ran out, except this time my inspection method failed
me, since I was only seeing the outside shoes through the hole on
the disc brakes up front. My mechanic had the car up on the
hoist for the frequent CV boot replacement, and made a emphatic
note to me that my linings (the insides) were nearly down to the
rivets. Not good! So I had to punt and take him up on his offer
(rather than what I was holding out for which was Porterfield
carbon-kevlars on the front too), since he wasn't up for letting
my vehicle out of the shop. He produced a nice set of vented and
grooved rotors (which was another upgrade angle I was working on)
and a set of semi-metallic "rotor eater" linings. Installed, and
I could feel the well-known warm-up time (which wasn't long
considering the descent from my apt). Those linings have been in
there several years by now, and he says they're doing fine. And
I also note that no sweat forms on my brow like it used to when I
had a big hill descent in front of my EV. I pretty much take it
like all the gas cars do. And when my car was down in the South
Bay last year for an "extended period", we had the vehicle out on
the freeway (Hi101) doing 70mph for some testing. Unfortunately,
came up real fast on a traffic jam and all the brake lights lit
up. It was work, but I got 'er hauled down with room to spare.
It would help a bit if I had the vacuum assist going, but that's
another story...
Bottom line is from experience I strongly recommend getting away
from the stock crap organic linings. Our EVs put a lot of heat
on their linings, especially if you are in hilly country. Go
with carbon-kevlar (my first choice) or semi-metallics (the
braking is not so good till they warm up). Porterfield likely
does not have shoes for your S-10, but there are probably shops
that do. Police vehicles at least used to run semi-metallics or
some such. Maybe your Kragen metallics would be a good bet.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:05 PM
Subject: gimme a brake ...
> When I put the parking brake on, it goes too close to the
> floor to hold on steep grades, and my brake pedal goes to
> the floor to engage. Time for new pads.
>
> To get a price on jsut to the pads to knows the costs if
> I get a quote from a service center, I went to a Kragen's
> auto store.
>
> They asked my if my 1985 S-10 Blazer was a 4 cyl or a 6.
> Would there be two different brake pads that would fitt
> on the same wheel?
>
> I would assume the 6 cyl would be a bigger or beefier
> pad, I would want that for the added weight of my conversion.
>
> The helpful young man told me they did not offer an organic
> pad, but did offer a 2 year pad or a metal pad with a
> life time warrentee.
>
> I need some advise on replacement brake pads.
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
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