EV Digest 2518
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Intel EV charging ...
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) electric breadbasket
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Automakers tout hybrid concepts, while milking SUV$)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Gov woos GM for simple hybrid vehicle jobs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Matra P75 EV with Michelin LRRs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Brendan Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Brendan Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 110V AVCON Adapter
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by "Humphrey, Timothy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Brendan Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Fw: Russian cars, Sentra's an' Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking statements)-long, comments
added
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:34 PM
Subject: Intel EV charging ...
> This message is for Intel contacts who know of the EV
> charging at their Santa Clara site. I need to talk to
> them, so please contact me.
>
> ...
> Sidebar: I got the call and I impressed the contract
> company agent. I have two more hoops of fire to jump
> through before I could be a temp worker at that site,
> so please put me in your prayers.
>
> I would need to secure EV charging, to use for the
> commute. I hope I can use my PFC-50 with the AVCON
> ics-200 they have in their parking structure ...
>
> but first I gots to get da job ...
Good luck to ya Bruce! Start getting your life back together and
get some EV chargin' to boot. What a deal...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Saw today (in Tuesday's San Francisco Chronicle) a full page ad
from GM, announcing that they will be using hybrid technology in
several models this year. A couple of trucks, like the Tahoe,
come to mind. But right at the start of the dialog, they gotta
nail electrics, just like Toyota and Honda do with their "don't
have to plug it in" phrase. If I recall correctly, the starting
phrase was something to the effect of "Unlike electric
breadbaskets...". So here is a third automaker now bashing
electrics in their ads. Gimme a break! One of the biggest
reasons I want to plug it in is to get away from the infernal
fossil fuel infrastructure that gives them the chance to say "and
a motor that never needs plugged in". I wonder how many people
buy that as being an advantage.
And I'm walking away from it... I'll never buy/lease a vehicle
from any of these manufacturers, until they lay it off and
produce a vehicle I want, then wait ten years for good measure.
If they had had the EV1 or other EV out there ten years ago, when
I was looking, made it available to everyday people such as
regular apt renters, and compatible with apt charging
possibilities (ie. no big hulking on-the-wall charging box in an
apt carport - yeah, come on...), I might have gone for an OEM
vehicle. But it never happened. Built a conversion, and am
tooling down the road that way. Gets the local around-town job
done, and I have learned a lot. I'd still be waiting for GM,
Ford, Toyota, Honda, and all the rest. Probably would've given
up and gone on to something else...
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Jay Donnaway wrote:
> > I discovered that my vintage Craftsman electric lawnmower
does
> > indeed have a universal motor. On 12VDC it spins much more
slowly,
> > but without the annoying grating noise that has always
accompanied
> > 120VAC operation. With a quick test, I didn't notice much
more
> > speed at 24 VDC. If I use some small, sealed lead-acid
deep-cycle
> > "Power Wheels" 12V batteries in series to get 36 volts or
more, can
> > I expect to get close to full speed operation?
>
> No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either AC
or DC.
> You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance. I
did this
> for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having to
manage 60
> 2v cells was a pain.
So this brings to mind an experiment I tried with a stand-up
floor fan a year or two ago. Three-speed switch and off. Set it
on one of the speeds and hooked up a variac plus rectifier to the
AC plug of the fan. Started at 0V and slowly turned up the
voltage. Probably up at about 90V started to get some humming
and kept going a little further and still no spinning of the fan
blades. Think I even gave it a whirl in case it was stalling.
So backed off. I didn't want a fireball or something ugly
because I didn't understand what was going on. Thought this
would be a universal motor and it would start to spin up at a
voltage well below whatever I was at. Went away with a
headscratcher on that one. Maybe I wasn't aggressive enough in
getting the voltage up? No info on label that seemed useful.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Automakers tout hybrid concepts, while milking SUV$)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.iht.com/articles/82582.html
Lexus plows into hybrid territory
Danny Hakim The New York Times
Wednesday, January 8, 2003
Luxury carmaker plans an eco-friendly SUV
DETROIT Toyota Motor Corp. announced Tuesday that it would
start selling a hybrid version of its Lexus RX 330 sport
utility vehicle in two years, which will probably make it
the first luxury automobile to use the highly fuel-efficient
technology and the second such SUV on the market.
The plan was part of a flurry of announcements at a preview
of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit
this week relating to fuel-efficient technologies. Which
technology was being talked up, however - hybrids, diesels,
fuel cells, hydrogen combustion - depended which automaker
was doing the talking.
European executives, used to wide acceptance of diesels in
their home markets, stressed the need for wider acceptance
of diesel in the United States.
On Monday, General Motors unveiled a new plan that includes
offering in 2005 a version of its Saturn Vue SUV, which uses
hybrid technology - a fuel-efficient combination of an
internal combustion engine supplemented by an electric
motor. The company also plans to offer milder forms of
electric power in four other high-volume models by 2007.
Ford Motor Co., which plans to sell a hybrid version of its
Escape SUV in December - likely the first hybrid SUV -
showed a new prototype at the auto show that uses hydrogen
to fuel an internal combustion engine and supplements it
with electric power.
All the major automakers are working on electric cars
powered by fuel cells that do not need to be plugged in
because they generate an electric current from a chemical
reaction.
The frenzy of public relations on fuel efficiency in the
U.S. market are largely a response to increasing regulatory
and social pressures.
Last month, the Bush administration said it planned to
increase federal fuel-economy standards for pickups, SUVs
and minivans by 7 percent, a minuscule increase from the
perspective of environmental groups but still the largest
increase in more than a decade.
California, highly influential in the debate because it sets
its own clean-air standards that other states follow, has
passed legislation to reduce automotive greenhouse gas
emissions.
Since the late 1990s, Toyota and Honda Motor Co. have been
the only two car companies that sell cars that use hybrid
power.
Toyota sold more than 100,000 of its Prius subcompact
hybrids since they first went on sale in Japan in the late
1990s and Honda offers a hybrid version of its Civic and an
aluminum hybrid called the Insight.
"Major advances in our hybrid system and in the number of
vehicles carrying it will help us achieve our worldwide goal
to put 300,000 hybrid vehicles on the road annually by the
middle of this decade," said Fuji Cho, president of Toyota
Motor. "More importantly, it will spread advanced,
low-emission technology faster and further around the
world."
Dieter Zetsche, the chief executive of the Chrysler Group, a
unit of DaimlerChrysler AG, said Monday he still had
considerable doubts about the business case for hybrids.
Government tax incentives are seen as key to their immediate
promise. Modern advances in diesel engines, Zetsche said,
were more promising.
===
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1041898401199_15
U.S. automakers unveil gas-electric hybrids
CTV News Staff [News stream
mms://ctvbroadcast.ctv.ca/video/2003/01/06/ctvvideologger1_45kbps_2003_01_06_1041909913.wmv
]
At least five of the world's major automakers will soon
offer North American consumers the opportunity to go "green"
with hybrid gasoline-electric powered engines. General
Motors said Monday it will offer hybrid engines on at least
seven vehicles by 2007.
GM and Ford are unveiling their new hybrid concepts this
week at the North American International Auto Show in
Detroit.
GM said it plans to put hybrid electric engines into some
pickup trucks this year. It plans on eventually introducing
a Saturn Vue sport utility vehicle that could get up to 17
kilometres per litre.
The average fuel economy for the 2003 model cars and trucks
is about 9 km/litre.
Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. are the only
carmakers that currently sell hybrid vehicles in North
America. Last year, the two Japanese automakers sold about
30,000 combined hybrid cars in the United States out of
total industry sales of 16.8 million.
"We as an industry have the responsibility to continue
improving vehicle emissions and fuel economy," said GM CEO
Rick Wagoner.
Ford says its hybrid SUV should be in available to consumers
by the end of 2003. Chrysler plans to offer a hybrid truck.
GM was the first automaker to offer a mass-produced electric
car, the EV1, but lost more than $1 billion on the project.
The EV1 had to by plugged in and went about 150 kilometres
before needing to be recharged. Hybrid vehicles regenerate
their battery power.
"There is an element of risk and I would say that's the
price of being out in front of the parade." Wagoner said.
"We're willing to do that."
However, GM doesn't want a repeat of the financial drain of
the EV1 program and hopes government will contribute with
tax credits for industry and consumers who buy "green"
vehicles.
Canada, which last month ratified the Kyoto accord to reduce
greenhouse gasses, is expected to announce financial
incentives to encourage Canadians to reduce emissions. It is
not clear if credits for purchasing environmentally friendly
cars is in Ottawa's plan.
Environment Minister David Anderson drives a hybrid vehicle
and is a staunch opponent of gas-guzzling SUVs.
Reports say hybrid technology adds between $1,500 and $7,000
to the price of a car.
Ford, meanwhile, unveiled its model U at the show, a car the
company says sets a new standard for environmental
friendliness. The car won't be available for sale anytime
soon but Ford is unveiling the concept to develop new
ideas.
"It has a hydrogen internal combustion engine with hybrid
electric power train so there are virtually no emissions
from this vehicle other than water," said Ford engineer
Bryan Goodman. "It uses green materials and has innovative
manufacturing process so it's friendly to the environment
and actually improves the environment."
The canvas roof of the model U is made of corn and is
compostable, the foam in the seats is made of a soy
bean-based product and the engine is lubricated by sunflower
oil.
"I think this is a very positive vision for the future,"
Goodman said. "It shows that we can design vehicles that can
actually improve the environment."
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Gov woos GM for simple hybrid vehicle jobs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mlive.com/news/statewide/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news-1/1041937804241280.xml
Granholm sets sights on hybrid electric car jobs
Tuesday, January 7, 2003 By Rick Haglund Detroit Bureau
DETROIT -- Gov. Jennifer Granholm plans to talk to top
General Motors Corp. officials about promoting GM's home
state as a leader in the sale and production of new hybrid
electric cars.
"It is something the governor is very interested in,"
Granholm spokeswoman Mary Dettloff said. "She's interested
in doing whatever the state can to help bring these
technology-based jobs to Michigan."
GM announced at the North American International Auto Show
here Monday that it hopes to sell about one million hybrid
vehicles a year by 2007. A hybrid vehicle uses a gasoline
engine and an electric motor, boosting the vehicle's fuel
economy by as much as 50 percent.
Honda Motor Co. and Toyota Motor Corp. already offer hybrid
vehicles, but GM's effort is the most ambitious among
domestic automakers in terms of vehicle numbers.
GM Chief Executive Office Rick Wagoner said in an interview
Monday that he will talk to Granholm soon about hybrids and
other issues. In an earlier news conference, he said
government fleet purchases of hybrids and consumer tax
credits will be needed to jump-start the hybrid market.
"Consumer-based tax credits will play a critical role in
gaining market acceptance by making these technologies more
affordable," Wagoner said.
GM didn't announce any prices of its hybrid vehicles, but
Wagoner said they can cost several thousand more than
gas-powered vehicles.
Granholm also wants to meet with the leaders of Ford Motor
Co. and the Chrysler Group to talk about producing hybrid
and other advanced-technology vehicles in Michigan.
"Making these kinds of cars are the kinds of jobs we're
interested in," Dettloff said.
Michigan, which faces a $1.8 billion deficit in the fiscal
year starting Oct. 1, probably couldn't afford to offer
state tax credits for consumers who purchase hybrids this
year or next. But Dettloff said Granholm would be open to
doing so in future years.
"If it helps grow the economy, it's something that could pay
for itself," she said.
The state also would consider purchasing hybrid vehicles in
its fleet, Dettloff said.
Promoting hybrid vehicles fits in with Granholm's plan for a
Tri-Technology Corridor, which includes developing new
products in life sciences, automobiles and homeland
security.
GM said it would first offer a relatively simple hybrid
system on its full-size Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra
pickups later this year. A small electric motor, which runs
off the car battery, would power the vehicles at idle and
run some of the accessories.
A more complex system will be offered on the Saturn VUE SUV
in 2005. That system, which uses two electric motors, will
boost highway fuel economy by 50 percent, to about 40 miles
per gallon.
A third type of hybrid, which connects an electric motor to
a continuously variable transmission, will be offered on a
range of models in 2007, including the Chevrolet Malibu
sedan.
Wagoner said only about 35,000 hybrid vehicles a year are
now sold. That's mainly because they are offered only on
small cars, he said.
"We are taking a very pragmatic approach, targeting a wide
array of popular models with varying degrees of complexity
to give consumers a variety of choice," Wagoner said.
But the automaker still sees hydrogen-burning fuel cells as
the ultimate answer to producing cars and trucks that don't
pollute.
GM is making progress on its goal of offering fuel-cell
vehicles to consumers by 2010, Wagoner said.
Michigan is in a tight race with New York, California, Ohio
and Texas to develop that technology.
Contact Rick Haglund at (248) 540-7311 or e-mail him at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Contact Rick Haglund at (248) 540-7311 or e-mail him at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] � 2003 Booth Newspapers.
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Matra P75 EV with Michelin LRRs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
Porsche Shows Off New SUV at Auto Show
Tue Jan 7, 6:05 PM ET
By ALEXANDRA R. MOSES, Associated Press Writer
DETROIT -[...]
Four French-themed concept vehicles made their North
American debut Tuesday alongside scale models and drawings
of other cars as part of tire-maker Michelin's design
showcase.
The full-scale vehicles and other concepts were developed in
concert with manufacturers and individuals from 13 countries
and featured Michelin tire designs.
"Design and its twin innovation are essential to the
creation of interesting and exciting ... vehicles," said
Michelin Group's John Grimaldi. "Our commitment in this area
is very strong."
Renault brought two cars for the show: Koleos, which blends
elements of a sedan with an off-road vehicle, and Vel Satis,
a four-seat coupe.
Venturi showed off its Fetish, a sleek sports car that
offers the comfort of a touring car. And the Matra P75, a
small van, offers functionality in an electric vehicle.
Last year was the first year for the design contest, which
featured Italian-themed vehicles. Michelin plans to continue
the event annually, with the 2004 contest focusing on
designing for the Chinese market and the 2005 contest on
German design.
===
http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/January-2003/January-2003-1/January-03-03-p1.htm
Michelin Challenge Design(TM)
Brings World Debut of Matra P75 to Detroit
Environmentally-friendly electric vehicle to be displayed at
the North American International Auto Show
[
http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/January-2003/January-2003-1/matra-p75-MICHELIN-CHALLENGE-DESIGN-115.jpg
]
Matra P75 Photo: Michelin
DETROIT - From Grand Prix racing to developing the m72,
Matra has always liked taking well-calculated risks. At the
upcoming North American International Auto Show (NAIAS),
Matra will unveil its latest work, the Matra P75, a compact,
versatile city car as part of the Michelin Challenge
Design(TM) display in Michigan Hall.
The Matra P75 is joining concept vehicles from Renault and
Venturi as well as 10 scale models and 17 two-dimensional
drawings selected from designers representing 13 different
countries. Michelin will display the vehicles, scale models
and drawings in Michigan Hall, the Michelin Media Center and
on the main floor of Cobo Center as part of this year's
focus on the past, present and future of French design.
"Performing alongside the giants in the automobile industry
calls for a strategic vision geared to delivering innovative
solutions to new challenges," said John Grimaldi, president,
Passenger and Light Truck Tires OE Worldwide for Michelin.
"We're glad to have Matra as part of this year's Challenge
Design. It's a French company that had the audacity to come
up with the Espace -- a revolutionary family vehicle --
which was launched in Europe in 1984 and became the leader
of the MPV market it created."
The Matra P75 is more than representative of French design
-- it's a working prototype. The P75 has an
environmentally-friendly design. An electrical traction
chain fitted under the floor affords exceptional interior
space for passengers along with practical functionality. The
P75 is outfitted with Michelin low-rolling resistance
tires.
"The P75 is another example of the expertise in 'automobile
architecture' that Matra is able to offer manufacturers,"
said Armand Carlier, president of Matra. "In fact, we rank
among a select group of engineering companies that can offer
expertise across the entire vehicle development process and
we are convinced that we are uniquely positioned to become
Europe's leading force in engineering services."
Also part of the Michelin Challenge Design display will be a
scale model of the Matra m72, a car and motorbike hybrid
that demonstrates that freedom and sharing goes hand-in-hand
with the company's tradition of pioneering niche markets.
Completely open to the environment, the m72 provides an
excellent driving experience in a safe and fun design.
"The m72 is a leisure vehicle which induces feelings of
liberty and comfort with a surprising degree of simplicity,"
said Jean-Louis Caussin, executive vice president at Matra.
"While it is available to anyone over the age of 16 in
France with a B1 driver's license, we think the North
American market will enjoy seeing the m72 and they'll wish
it was available here."
The Michelin Challenge Design was established in 2002 as a
way to bring forward and display significant design work
that would not normally have the opportunity to be displayed
at a major international auto show. At the 2002 NAIAS, works
based upon the theme of Italian design were displayed during
press and public days. The theme for the 2003 NAIAS brings
together works representative of the past, present and
future of French design.
Michelin Challenge Design will display the works of 17
individuals and companies representing 13 countries
including Argentina, Australia, China, Colombia, England,
France, India, Monaco, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Sweden,
The United States and Venezuela. A six-person international
jury reviewed more than 125 entries from 40 countries to
select the finalists for display at the North American
International Auto Show. (Dec 13, 2002)
===
[ http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=Matra+P75 ]
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I power my lawn mower, chain saw, and leaf blower from a 120 VDC plug on my
truck when I am too far from a regular AC outlet. Far from being a pain I
find this much better than having separate battery packs or gas engines for
each device. Works great. You just have to be careful not to turn the
device off with the normal switch.
At 03:36 PM 1/7/03 -0800, you wrote:
Jay Donnaway wrote:
> I discovered that my vintage Craftsman electric lawnmower does
> indeed have a universal motor. On 12VDC it spins much more slowly,
> but without the annoying grating noise that has always accompanied
> 120VAC operation. With a quick test, I didn't notice much more
> speed at 24 VDC. If I use some small, sealed lead-acid deep-cycle
> "Power Wheels" 12V batteries in series to get 36 volts or more, can
> I expect to get close to full speed operation?
No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either AC or DC.
You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance. I did this
for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having to manage 60
2v cells was a pain.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Brendan Kirby, P.E.
Power Systems Research Program
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
865-576-1768
865-574-5227 Fax
PO Box 2008
MS 6070
Oak Ridge, TN 37831
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck,
The fan had an induction motor, not a universal motor hence it needed AC.
Brendan
At 12:43 AM 1/8/03 -0800, you wrote:
So this brings to mind an experiment I tried with a stand-up
floor fan a year or two ago. Three-speed switch and off. Set it
on one of the speeds and hooked up a variac plus rectifier to the
AC plug of the fan. Started at 0V and slowly turned up the
voltage. Probably up at about 90V started to get some humming
and kept going a little further and still no spinning of the fan
blades. Think I even gave it a whirl in case it was stalling.
So backed off. I didn't want a fireball or something ugly
because I didn't understand what was going on. Thought this
would be a universal motor and it would start to spin up at a
voltage well below whatever I was at. Went away with a
headscratcher on that one. Maybe I wasn't aggressive enough in
getting the voltage up? No info on label that seemed useful.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
Brendan Kirby, P.E.
Power Systems Research Program
Oak Ridge National Laboratory
865-576-1768
865-574-5227 Fax
PO Box 2008
MS 6070
Oak Ridge, TN 37831
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I didn't realize it would be that much. But if you look here:
>
>http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/LLCategoryDisplayView?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=726075&categoryId=92
>
> $600: 3kW with 6kW surge
> $500: 1.75kW with 3kW surge
> $350: 1.5kW with 3kW surge
Hmm, those are good prices, now if only you didn't have to wait 30 or
more days for it to ship...
Still for $350 you could buy a commercially made battery powered mower
that was lighter and probably works better.
Heck for $500 you can buy one of those robotic lawn mowers and let it
take care of the lawn.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Would it make sense then to use a 12V battery and an 120Vac inverter?
VanDerWal, Peter MSgt wrote:
> You have a hardware store that sells 2kw inverters? How much?
> Note: The lawn mower probably only draws 1 to 1.5 kw, but surge
> power could conceivably be 2 to 3kw.
My mower only drew about 5 amps running, 10 amps peak in heavy grass.
Starting current was probably higher, though.
A 600w inverter might be enough to run it. The motor would load it down
quite a bit when started, but the inverter might still keep going; just
take longer to come up to speed.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How big are we talking about here? I've still got a healthy lower back:)
A new charger wouldn't exactly cost $5 either.
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
on 1/8/03 1:36 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> From: Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 13:21:06 -0700 (MST)
> To: EV Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: 110v AVCON Adapter
>
>
> + I have sucessfully used a 240<->120 isolation transformer, but it is
> + about 100 lbs.
>
> Judging by the max input power that the Soleq EVcort's onboard charger
> would accept, the transformer in this case wouldn't be nearly this
> large. But relatively speaking, it would still be a rather large
> transformer... and wouldn't exactly cost $5.
>
>
>
> -~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
>
> website. http://www.1opossum.com
> email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
> Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, how to you turn them off?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brendan Kirby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:53 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
>
>
> I power my lawn mower, chain saw, and leaf blower from a 120
> VDC plug on my
> truck when I am too far from a regular AC outlet. Far from
> being a pain I
> find this much better than having separate battery packs or
> gas engines for
> each device. Works great. You just have to be careful not to turn the
> device off with the normal switch.
>
>
> At 03:36 PM 1/7/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >Jay Donnaway wrote:
> > > I discovered that my vintage Craftsman electric lawnmower does
> > > indeed have a universal motor. On 12VDC it spins much more slowly,
> > > but without the annoying grating noise that has always accompanied
> > > 120VAC operation. With a quick test, I didn't notice much more
> > > speed at 24 VDC. If I use some small, sealed lead-acid deep-cycle
> > > "Power Wheels" 12V batteries in series to get 36 volts or
> more, can
> > > I expect to get close to full speed operation?
> >
> >No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either
> AC or DC.
> >You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance.
> I did this
> >for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having
> to manage 60
> >2v cells was a pain.
> >--
> >Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> >814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> >Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> >leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -
> Leonard Cohen
>
> Brendan Kirby, P.E.
>
> Power Systems Research Program
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
> 865-576-1768
> 865-574-5227 Fax
>
> PO Box 2008
> MS 6070
> Oak Ridge, TN 37831
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I usually just pull the plug. All of them have short cords on the tool so
there is an extension cord end handy. An alternative would be to install
better switches but that has not been worth the effort.
Brendan
At 02:37 PM 1/8/03 +0000, you wrote:
So, how to you turn them off?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brendan Kirby [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 6:53 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
>
>
> I power my lawn mower, chain saw, and leaf blower from a 120
> VDC plug on my
> truck when I am too far from a regular AC outlet. Far from
> being a pain I
> find this much better than having separate battery packs or
> gas engines for
> each device. Works great. You just have to be careful not to turn the
> device off with the normal switch.
>
>
> At 03:36 PM 1/7/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >Jay Donnaway wrote:
> > > I discovered that my vintage Craftsman electric lawnmower does
> > > indeed have a universal motor. On 12VDC it spins much more slowly,
> > > but without the annoying grating noise that has always accompanied
> > > 120VAC operation. With a quick test, I didn't notice much more
> > > speed at 24 VDC. If I use some small, sealed lead-acid deep-cycle
> > > "Power Wheels" 12V batteries in series to get 36 volts or
> more, can
> > > I expect to get close to full speed operation?
> >
> >No; a universal motor runs at about the same speed on either
> AC or DC.
> >You'd need to apply 120vdc to match the 120vac performance.
> I did this
> >for a few years with a corded mower. It worked, but having
> to manage 60
> >2v cells was a pain.
> >--
> >Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> >814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> >Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> >leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -
> Leonard Cohen
>
> Brendan Kirby, P.E.
>
> Power Systems Research Program
> Oak Ridge National Laboratory
> 865-576-1768
> 865-574-5227 Fax
>
> PO Box 2008
> MS 6070
> Oak Ridge, TN 37831
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Russian cars
> www.okaauto.com
>
> The LOW SPEED INCOMPLETE VEHICLE is $3,000 but you MUST be registered as a
manufacturer with EPA, DOT and your state before you can legally purchase
them (3 minimum) and when completed they must confirm to standard 500 for
low speed vehicles (See DOT regulations) MAXIMUM attainable speed MUST be
below 25 MPH or 40 km/h
>
> OKA AUTO USA
>
> Hi All;
Heres the response I got from OKA Auto. Ah POO! We need MORE , traffic
blocking NEV's like Iraq needs more nukes. I was thinking of a Blue Meanie
with a Russian twist. guess it's back to sniffing out the current crop of
gas rigs to find one to convert. I have given serious thought to my newer 94
Nissan Sentra, a basic plain jane 4 door sedan, the one I drove out to
Woodburn last year. Havent taken the first step, weighing it up as a gas,
but it will do 40 plus on the highway, MPG, that is, it's PLENTY fast
enough, 100 plus on Montana's Open Road. HAD to try it<g>!But I hate to cram
1400 lbs of battery into it. Evercells come to mind? Like Sheers Honda,
maybe only several hundred lbs of batteries, wouldn't need hevier
springs!?One of the guyz at work has a cute 2 door Sentra, maybe lighter
than the 4 door, I know doors are #$%^ heavy, car could be a few hundred lbs
lighter? Any thoughts? Comments on a relatively newer conversion, good
candidate, in a CAR, not interested in a truck. I know I would just belt
drive the sentras AC off the motor shaft, along with my vacuun pump
Cruise control: It is nice on the Sentra, and I was impressed with the
miliage increase on long flites asross country, when I set it up, and just
aimed the car, from there. Maybe it would give ya better range on an EV?
Don't know how ya would set it up in an Ev, but I'm sure it could run off a
tach setup on a Raptur. Of course you would hafta replace the heater core
with a few creramic elements. Seemless swap, as the functions work great on
the stock Sentra.Notice I didn't say anything about smoke shows, only want
to keep up with traffic, if it'll tweek the tires, so be it, but I want
something basic to get to work, or run errands, or take a few people with
me, as need be. A newer Rabbit, with the newer safety stuff, air bags and
all that. The Sentra REALLY isn't a small car, but by US standards, SUV
land I guess it is.Maybe it has a decent CD, as it is a roundy sort of
body.Better than say the 87 I'm fixing up?Boxy as hell, on that one.
Seeya
Bob.......thinking of a newer EV
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: 1sclunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking statements)-long
> sounds to good to be true (hope it is true ) . They don't give a lot of
> details "new technology"
> dose not tell me much. If I came up with a battery like that I wouldn't
be
> doing anything but selling them and let others make the cars. What if the
> battery cost 100 times what they do now .at 10 times the price of golf
cart
> I'd probable use 1/2 as many as 30 to 60 miles is really all I need and
that
> would give me 90 miles . I guess what bug's me about any talk of better
> batters is 1 it never happens 2 it seem to always say what we have now is
> not good enough. What if we never took the lead out of gas or paint
because
> it didn't stop all pollution. I may dream of better batteries in my sleep
> but when awake I only believe in what we have which to me looks like it
> works fine.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > SEBASTOPOL, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan.
6,
> > 2003--Electronic transportation developer ZAP -
> > today announced plans to unveil a new technology that
> > appears to triple the performance of today's battery-powered
> > vehicles.
> > Hi EVerybody;
Not holding my breath. Like the Misouri Tags say ;" Show Me State" I'm
in a show me state in CT. Having been in an' out of this EV thing over 35
years I have seen SO many "Three times the Range" stuff come an go. Remember
Bob Aronson's Tri polar batteries? I'm still waiting for a set. He got
impressive range in a Renault with TWO THOUSAND lbs of batteries aboard, a
4200 lb car! I thought 1400 in a Rabbit was a bit much, It IS! I hope ZAP
can pull this off, it's what we need, double the range would be as gift to
mankind. But battery managment will go along way along these lines, getting
more out of existing technology. Did Zap make a deal with Rich Rudman? For a
PFC charging deal? Yur EV is only as good as it's charger.
> > ZAP also expects to unveil a new ZAP brand of electronic car
> > that would utilize the new charge technology during Las
> > Vegas' annual Consumer Electronics Show (CES), January 9-13,
> > which hosts 100,000 annual attendees from 100 countries.
> >
GO ZAP! Maybe a rebadged THINK? I hope so, car was too good to die!
> > Lead-acid batteries have been the conventional power source
> > in electric vehicles since the 1800s, but ZAP says the
> > technology unveiled today could offer over three times the
> > performance, meaning it could improve the range of ZAP's
> > electronic cars from 60 miles with today's lead-acid
> > batteries to more than 200 miles using the new technology.
> >
I'd be happy with 120 miles, if it WORKS!
> > ZAP CEO Steve Schneider calls the new technology unveiled
> > today the "Holy Grail" for this industry, saying that
> > billions of dollars have been spent in recent years by
> > government and industry to find ways of reducing automotive
> > emissions by developing new battery technologies. However,
> > many experts conclude that battery-powered transportation
> > will never offer the convenience of conventional internal
> > combustion vehicles. Others favor fuel-cell technology,
> > although there has not been a commercial fuel cell available
> > to date.
> >
But it COULD, we know that!Battery power, we drive our talk here!
> > Research shows that electronic cars using off-the-shelf
> > technology produce 90 percent less emissions, even counting
> > the emissions from power plants. Millions of electronic cars
> > could be recharged during nighttime hours using surplus
> > off-peak electricity. Electronic transport can also take
> > advantage of renewable energy, like solar, wind, and
> > hydroelectric energy.
> >
> > "I have personally experienced the performance of this new
> > technology and look forward to sharing it with our
> > customers," said Schneider. "We expect third-party testing
> > to confirm the energy capabilities shortly. But to help
> > illustrate the performance, we believe this technology will
> > enable you to drive your brand new ZAP car from San
> > Francisco to Los Angeles with only a one-hour stop to
> > recharge and have lunch."
> >
Hmmm? NY Boston? Stop for lunch in CT? But ya should take the Acela,
THAT'S electric, too.Faster. Shameless plug for Amtrak, I do work there.But
at 120 bux,OW it's too pricy for common people.
> > ZAP compared the characteristics of the new technology with
> > today's lead-acid batteries, saying the new technology more
> > than triples the performance (See Table 1 below).
> >
Optimas, with PFC charging technology?
> > Schneider was named CEO of ZAP in October following the
> > company's merger with two automotive marketing companies.
> > Five years ago Schneider founded his company Voltage
> > Vehicles to establish a distribution network for electronic
> > transport through the independent auto dealer network and
> > entrepreneurs who open their own ZAP Outlets. His dealership
> > in Fulton, California is a model of this retail strategy and
> > Schneider says he is showing at CES to find partners
> > interested in expanding distribution. Under the merger,
> > Voltage Vehicles is a wholly owned subsidiary of ZAP.
> >
Hey Steve, need an outlet(Dealer) In CT?Got plenty of outlets 120/240!
> > Publicly owned ZAP was founded in 1994 and is recognized as
> > a world leader in creating a market for electronic
> > transport. The Company has delivered vehicles to thousands
> > of customers all over the world. ZAP stands for Zero Air
> > Pollution. For more information, go to
> > http://www.zapworld.com or call 800-251-4555.
> > -0-
> > Table 1 -- Battery Characteristics
> > Range Energy (Whr/kl) Power (W/kg) Cycles
> > Lead-acid 60 miles 35 150 500
> > ZAP Technology 240 miles 200 400 1000
> >
> > Forward-looking statements in this release are made pursuant
> > to the "safe harbor" provisions of the Private Securities
> > Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that
> > such forward-looking statements involve risks and
> > uncertainties, including, without limitation, continued
> > acceptance of the Company's products, increased levels of
> > competition for the Company, new products and technological
> > changes, the Company's dependence upon third-party
> > suppliers, intellectual property rights, and other risks
> > detailed from time to time in the Company's periodic reports
> > filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Yada Yada Yada!
I'm all ears, as well as EVerybody else on here.
Bob......plugging along on Lead Acid, still.
> > Contact: ZAP Alex Campbell, 707/824-4150 ext. 241
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.zapworld.com Source: ZAP
> > [ http://zapworld.com/ ]
> >
> > ===
> >
> > http://www.zapworld.com/news/ces010203.htm
> > ZAP to Unveil Electronic Cars at CES
> >
> > SEBASTOPOL, Calif. (January 2, 2002) ? ZAP the Northern
> > California pioneer in electric bicycles and scooters, will
> > unveil a new ZAP brand of electronic automobile January 9 at
> > the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, the
> > world?s largest consumer technologies event with more than
> > 100,000 annual attendees from over 100 countries.
> >
> > ZAP says it will also be unveiling a new technology that
> > appears to triple the performance of battery-powered
> > automobiles.
> >
> > Voltage Vehicles, a subsidiary of ZAP, has signed an
> > exclusive agreement with a European-based group of companies
> > involved in the design and manufacturing of electric
> > automobiles. The group has started production on several
> > different types of light electric utility vehicles for urban
> > transportation and commercial use. A representative from the
> > European group, Riccardo Coles, says they are working with
> > ZAP to launch their initial sales in North America.
> >
> > We feel the timing for electric cars is now,? said Coles.
> > ?There has never been more of a need throughout the world
> > for clean transportation technologies. According to air
> > quality studies, pure electrics are much more efficient and
> > produce much less pollution than other technologies,
> > including the new hybrids. We looked throughout the world
> > for the best way to launch our new cars and decided that the
> > USA is the right place and ZAP is the right company. We
> > believe that ZAP has a recognizable brand in this industry
> > and the right distribution strategy.?
> >
> > Coles added that the group of companies he represents is
> > forming a new car company that will focus on electronic
> > propulsion technologies. All of the companies, says Coles,
> > have experience in making traditional automobiles. One of
> > them, Studio Linia 2 of Torino, Italy, has designed some of
> > the most famous brands of Italian automobiles.
> >
> > Through its subsidiary Voltage Vehicles, ZAP is working to
> > establish a distribution network for its electronic
> > transport in the independent auto dealer market as well as
> > ZAP Outlets for entrepreneurs. Voltage Vehicles has licensed
> > for the distribution of vehicles from a number of different
> > vehicle manufacturers.
> >
> > The first car available under the venture is a 25 MPH
> > neighborhood electric car. The venture also includes
> > freeway-capable cars, vans, pickups, and
> > <http://www.zapworld.com/news/images/babyluv.jpg> commercial
> > vehicles. ZAP?s new neighborhood car is a compact 2-door
> > with climate controls and all the equipment and features of
> > conventional automobiles. The car utilizes several
> > innovations in electronic propulsion design and engineering.
> > For example, the instrumentation for the car can be accessed
> > via a control pad on the steering wheel.
> >
> > ZAP?s announcement today includes plans for a new commercial
> > vehicle that can be built in different configurations for
> > use in construction, agriculture and excavation. One of the
> > designs includes a backhoe and loader and Company officials
> > say the new electric excavator offers a new experience
> > compared to internal-combustion.
> >
> > Eight hours on a quiet pollution-free backhoe with no engine
> > vibration is like relaxing or playing an arcade game, not
> > like work,? said ZAP CEO Steve Schneider. ?Electric drive
> > technology is almost silent so it can eliminate noise
> > restrictions and extend working hours to around-the-clock
> > production. Whether in suburban areas or high density city
> > locations, contractors can meet time sensitive deadlines
> > without noise regulation.?
> >
> > For purchasing information, call 800-251-4555 or visit
> > http://www.zapworld.com.
> >
> > Forward-looking statements in this release are made pursuant
> > to the "safe harbor" provisions of the Private Securities
> > Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that
> > such forward-looking statements involve risks and
> > uncertainties, including, without limitation, continued
> > acceptance of the Company's products, increased levels of
> > competition for the Company, new products and technological
> > changes, the Company's dependence upon third-party
> > suppliers, intellectual property rights, and other risks
> > detailed from time to time in the Company's periodic reports
> > filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
> >
> > ===
> >
> > http://www.zapworld.com/news/maces.htm
> > Electronic Transport ZAP!s CES
> > Technology Expo Jan. 9 in Las Vegas
> >
> > WHEN
> > January 9 - 12, 2003
> >
> > WHERE
> > CES - International Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas,
> > Nevada, 1000 annual attendees from 100 countries
> > (www.cesweb.org)
> >
> > ZAP Electronic Transport Pavilion, Booth No. 31277, South
> > Hall Las Vegas Convention Center, also selected for lobby
> > exhibition.
> >
> > WHAT
> > New line of ZAP electronic cars, including
> > freeway-capable, commercial and low-speed cars.
> >
> > New ZAP technology that triples performance of electronic
> > transport.
> >
> > New products (electric bikes, scooters, water scooters and
> > more).
> >
> > WHO
> > Steven M. Schneider, Chief Executive Officer, ZAP, 20-year
> > veteran of automotive sales and marketing, recently named
> > CEO
> >
> > ZAP (www.zapworld.com), a worldwide leader in electronic
> > transport, helped pioneer the market for electric bicycles
> > and scooters
> >
> > WHY
> > Electronic transport is the best way to power our daily
> > transportation.
> >
> > ZAP is one of the only publicly owned companies in the
> > world focused primarily on electronic transport
> > technologies.
> >
> > ZAP (Zero Air Pollution), a market leader for electronic
> > bicycles and scooters, is expanding to electronic
> > automobiles
> >
> > INFO
> > For further information, contact:
> > Alex Campbell, ZAP, (707) 824-4150 x 241 email:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit www.zapworld.com
> > Forward-looking statements in this release are made pursuant
> > to the "safe harbor" provisions of the Private Securities
> > Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that
> > such forward-looking statements involve risks and
> > uncertainties, including, without limitation, continued
> > acceptance of the Company's products, increased levels of
> > competition for the Company, new products and technological
> > changes, the Company's dependence upon third-party
> > suppliers, intellectual property rights, and other risks
> > detailed from time to time in the Company's periodic reports
> > filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
