EV Digest 2519
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion,comments
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Interesting serial/parallel hybrid drivetrain
by "Schacherl Jens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: electric breadbasket
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking statements)-long, comments
added
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: gimme a brake ...
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) SVR-14
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN(Matra P75 EV with Michelin LRRs)
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: basic and OT; DC voltage vs universal AC motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fw: gimme a brake ...
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion,comments
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Fw: Russian cars, Sentra's an' Stuff
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Successful Hybrid Conversion
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> > P.S. anybody want any rabbit parts? Great body, thrashed
> interior.
>
> I doubt you're in the Bay Area, but I'll ask anyways as to your
> location. Always looking for good parts for the Yellow Banana.
Close but no cigar. Southern Arizona.
> And what year is your Rabbit?
'81
If you are looking for something in particular that is small, I'd be
happy to mail it to you.
>Also was curious as to the year of
> your 4Runner that you're going to convert to hybrid electric, and
> how many miles does it have on the odometer? Any idea as to the
> mpg that it was able to obtain? I have an '86.
'88 V6, 155,000 and about 20mpg or so when I drove it up to Phoenix to
buy a used shell for it (I bought it from an insurance auction as
"stripped", only things missing were the radio, shell, and knobs from
the seats)
$1,800 out the door and it has zero detectable rust. I was kind of
pleased especially since my neighbor figures I can get about $1,000 for
the ICE.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, Daewoo owns the ZAZ factory now - search for avtozazdaewoo for a picture
of the Tavria. IIRC they're horrible cars that look like the Lada Samara :)
I think Daewoo must be quite enthusiastic about EVs - they've provided gliders
to Solectria in the past. They have a nice 4-door city car here in the UK (750
cc 3cyl engine!) which I thought would make a good compact conversion, with the
right batteries. http://www.mymatiz.com/ for picture. Do you get these in the
States?
One downside - Daewoo were recently bought by GM!
Evan.
David wrote:
> Tavria, maybe? There was a guy in the Los Angeles area trying to sell
> them for EV conversions.
--- Richard Furniss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't remember the name of the car, but he said it was the same
> size as
> the first Honda's here in the USA, those little orange two door
> cars, these
> are full cars, 70 MPH, real glass and everything, brand new just
> off the
> line without engines, I think he said there were 3k delivered to
> Vegas with
> papers. His name is Miro Kefurt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.esoro.ch/E301&H301.html -> see linked PDF for details.
TWIN TRAK is a compact hybrid drivetrain with 40kW average power and only 97 kg
weight, without batteries.
It makes it possible to drive either pure electric, electric+ICE or, at highway
speeds, on ICE alone while recharging the batteries at the same time!
The H301 prototype vehicle has a pure-electric range of 70-100km with it's 180V/50Ah
NiCd pack, which is of course grid-rechargeable, so you don't have to use the ICE
except for occasional longer trips.
The article was already published in 1996, but no car manufacturer seemed to be
interested. Did it work not good enough, or <conspiracy theory mode> too well?
Esoro seems to have stopped this project and is now doing FoolCell research, I've seen
their "HyCar" at EVS18 in Berlin.
Regards, Jens
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, Ford bashed EV's at the EVAA conference now EDTA when they changed
their name due to a financial push from the administration to fuel cell
funding.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 4:01 AM
Subject: electric breadbasket
> Saw today (in Tuesday's San Francisco Chronicle) a full page ad
> from GM, announcing that they will be using hybrid technology in
> several models this year. A couple of trucks, like the Tahoe,
> come to mind. But right at the start of the dialog, they gotta
> nail electrics, just like Toyota and Honda do with their "don't
> have to plug it in" phrase. If I recall correctly, the starting
> phrase was something to the effect of "Unlike electric
> breadbaskets...". So here is a third automaker now bashing
> electrics in their ads. Gimme a break! One of the biggest
> reasons I want to plug it in is to get away from the infernal
> fossil fuel infrastructure that gives them the chance to say "and
> a motor that never needs plugged in". I wonder how many people
> buy that as being an advantage.
>
> And I'm walking away from it... I'll never buy/lease a vehicle
> from any of these manufacturers, until they lay it off and
> produce a vehicle I want, then wait ten years for good measure.
> If they had had the EV1 or other EV out there ten years ago, when
> I was looking, made it available to everyday people such as
> regular apt renters, and compatible with apt charging
> possibilities (ie. no big hulking on-the-wall charging box in an
> apt carport - yeah, come on...), I might have gone for an OEM
> vehicle. But it never happened. Built a conversion, and am
> tooling down the road that way. Gets the local around-town job
> done, and I have learned a lot. I'd still be waiting for GM,
> Ford, Toyota, Honda, and all the rest. Probably would've given
> up and gone on to something else...
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bet ZAP's 3x performance battery look a lot like a Thunder-sky Li-ion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Rice [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking
statements)-long, comments added
----- Original Message -----
From: 1sclunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: EVLN(ZAP's 3x performance batt forward-looking statements)-long
> sounds to good to be true (hope it is true ) . They don't give a lot of
> details "new technology"
> dose not tell me much. If I came up with a battery like that I wouldn't
be
> doing anything but selling them and let others make the cars. What if the
> battery cost 100 times what they do now .at 10 times the price of golf
cart
> I'd probable use 1/2 as many as 30 to 60 miles is really all I need and
that
> would give me 90 miles . I guess what bug's me about any talk of better
> batters is 1 it never happens 2 it seem to always say what we have now is
> not good enough. What if we never took the lead out of gas or paint
because
> it didn't stop all pollution. I may dream of better batteries in my sleep
> but when awake I only believe in what we have which to me looks like it
> works fine.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- > SEBASTOPOL, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan.
6,
> > 2003--Electronic transportation developer ZAP -
> > today announced plans to unveil a new technology that
> > appears to triple the performance of today's battery-powered
> > vehicles.
> > Hi EVerybody;
Not holding my breath. Like the Misouri Tags say ;" Show Me State" I'm
in a show me state in CT. Having been in an' out of this EV thing over 35
years I have seen SO many "Three times the Range" stuff come an go. Remember
Bob Aronson's Tri polar batteries? I'm still waiting for a set. He got
impressive range in a Renault with TWO THOUSAND lbs of batteries aboard, a
4200 lb car! I thought 1400 in a Rabbit was a bit much, It IS! I hope ZAP
can pull this off, it's what we need, double the range would be as gift to
mankind. But battery managment will go along way along these lines, getting
more out of existing technology. Did Zap make a deal with Rich Rudman? For a
PFC charging deal? Yur EV is only as good as it's charger.
> > ZAP also expects to unveil a new ZAP brand of electronic car
> > that would utilize the new charge technology during Las
> > Vegas' annual Consumer Electronics Show (CES), January 9-13,
> > which hosts 100,000 annual attendees from 100 countries.
> >
GO ZAP! Maybe a rebadged THINK? I hope so, car was too good to die!
> > Lead-acid batteries have been the conventional power source
> > in electric vehicles since the 1800s, but ZAP says the
> > technology unveiled today could offer over three times the
> > performance, meaning it could improve the range of ZAP's
> > electronic cars from 60 miles with today's lead-acid
> > batteries to more than 200 miles using the new technology.
> >
I'd be happy with 120 miles, if it WORKS!
> > ZAP CEO Steve Schneider calls the new technology unveiled
> > today the "Holy Grail" for this industry, saying that
> > billions of dollars have been spent in recent years by
> > government and industry to find ways of reducing automotive
> > emissions by developing new battery technologies. However,
> > many experts conclude that battery-powered transportation
> > will never offer the convenience of conventional internal
> > combustion vehicles. Others favor fuel-cell technology,
> > although there has not been a commercial fuel cell available
> > to date.
> >
But it COULD, we know that!Battery power, we drive our talk here!
> > Research shows that electronic cars using off-the-shelf
> > technology produce 90 percent less emissions, even counting
> > the emissions from power plants. Millions of electronic cars
> > could be recharged during nighttime hours using surplus
> > off-peak electricity. Electronic transport can also take
> > advantage of renewable energy, like solar, wind, and
> > hydroelectric energy.
> >
> > "I have personally experienced the performance of this new
> > technology and look forward to sharing it with our
> > customers," said Schneider. "We expect third-party testing
> > to confirm the energy capabilities shortly. But to help
> > illustrate the performance, we believe this technology will
> > enable you to drive your brand new ZAP car from San
> > Francisco to Los Angeles with only a one-hour stop to
> > recharge and have lunch."
> >
Hmmm? NY Boston? Stop for lunch in CT? But ya should take the Acela,
THAT'S electric, too.Faster. Shameless plug for Amtrak, I do work there.But
at 120 bux,OW it's too pricy for common people.
> > ZAP compared the characteristics of the new technology with
> > today's lead-acid batteries, saying the new technology more
> > than triples the performance (See Table 1 below).
> >
Optimas, with PFC charging technology?
> > Schneider was named CEO of ZAP in October following the
> > company's merger with two automotive marketing companies.
> > Five years ago Schneider founded his company Voltage
> > Vehicles to establish a distribution network for electronic
> > transport through the independent auto dealer network and
> > entrepreneurs who open their own ZAP Outlets. His dealership
> > in Fulton, California is a model of this retail strategy and
> > Schneider says he is showing at CES to find partners
> > interested in expanding distribution. Under the merger,
> > Voltage Vehicles is a wholly owned subsidiary of ZAP.
> >
Hey Steve, need an outlet(Dealer) In CT?Got plenty of outlets 120/240!
> > Publicly owned ZAP was founded in 1994 and is recognized as
> > a world leader in creating a market for electronic
> > transport. The Company has delivered vehicles to thousands
> > of customers all over the world. ZAP stands for Zero Air
> > Pollution. For more information, go to
> > http://www.zapworld.com or call 800-251-4555.
> > -0-
> > Table 1 -- Battery Characteristics
> > Range Energy (Whr/kl) Power (W/kg) Cycles
> > Lead-acid 60 miles 35 150 500
> > ZAP Technology 240 miles 200 400 1000
> >
> > Forward-looking statements in this release are made pursuant
> > to the "safe harbor" provisions of the Private Securities
> > Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that
> > such forward-looking statements involve risks and
> > uncertainties, including, without limitation, continued
> > acceptance of the Company's products, increased levels of
> > competition for the Company, new products and technological
> > changes, the Company's dependence upon third-party
> > suppliers, intellectual property rights, and other risks
> > detailed from time to time in the Company's periodic reports
> > filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Yada Yada Yada!
I'm all ears, as well as EVerybody else on here.
Bob......plugging along on Lead Acid, still.
> > Contact: ZAP Alex Campbell, 707/824-4150 ext. 241
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.zapworld.com Source: ZAP
> > [ http://zapworld.com/ ]
> >
> > ===
> >
> > http://www.zapworld.com/news/ces010203.htm
> > ZAP to Unveil Electronic Cars at CES
> >
> > SEBASTOPOL, Calif. (January 2, 2002) ? ZAP the Northern
> > California pioneer in electric bicycles and scooters, will
> > unveil a new ZAP brand of electronic automobile January 9 at
> > the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, the
> > world?s largest consumer technologies event with more than
> > 100,000 annual attendees from over 100 countries.
> >
> > ZAP says it will also be unveiling a new technology that
> > appears to triple the performance of battery-powered
> > automobiles.
> >
> > Voltage Vehicles, a subsidiary of ZAP, has signed an
> > exclusive agreement with a European-based group of companies
> > involved in the design and manufacturing of electric
> > automobiles. The group has started production on several
> > different types of light electric utility vehicles for urban
> > transportation and commercial use. A representative from the
> > European group, Riccardo Coles, says they are working with
> > ZAP to launch their initial sales in North America.
> >
> > We feel the timing for electric cars is now,? said Coles.
> > ?There has never been more of a need throughout the world
> > for clean transportation technologies. According to air
> > quality studies, pure electrics are much more efficient and
> > produce much less pollution than other technologies,
> > including the new hybrids. We looked throughout the world
> > for the best way to launch our new cars and decided that the
> > USA is the right place and ZAP is the right company. We
> > believe that ZAP has a recognizable brand in this industry
> > and the right distribution strategy.?
> >
> > Coles added that the group of companies he represents is
> > forming a new car company that will focus on electronic
> > propulsion technologies. All of the companies, says Coles,
> > have experience in making traditional automobiles. One of
> > them, Studio Linia 2 of Torino, Italy, has designed some of
> > the most famous brands of Italian automobiles.
> >
> > Through its subsidiary Voltage Vehicles, ZAP is working to
> > establish a distribution network for its electronic
> > transport in the independent auto dealer market as well as
> > ZAP Outlets for entrepreneurs. Voltage Vehicles has licensed
> > for the distribution of vehicles from a number of different
> > vehicle manufacturers.
> >
> > The first car available under the venture is a 25 MPH
> > neighborhood electric car. The venture also includes
> > freeway-capable cars, vans, pickups, and
> > <http://www.zapworld.com/news/images/babyluv.jpg> commercial
> > vehicles. ZAP?s new neighborhood car is a compact 2-door
> > with climate controls and all the equipment and features of
> > conventional automobiles. The car utilizes several
> > innovations in electronic propulsion design and engineering.
> > For example, the instrumentation for the car can be accessed
> > via a control pad on the steering wheel.
> >
> > ZAP?s announcement today includes plans for a new commercial
> > vehicle that can be built in different configurations for
> > use in construction, agriculture and excavation. One of the
> > designs includes a backhoe and loader and Company officials
> > say the new electric excavator offers a new experience
> > compared to internal-combustion.
> >
> > Eight hours on a quiet pollution-free backhoe with no engine
> > vibration is like relaxing or playing an arcade game, not
> > like work,? said ZAP CEO Steve Schneider. ?Electric drive
> > technology is almost silent so it can eliminate noise
> > restrictions and extend working hours to around-the-clock
> > production. Whether in suburban areas or high density city
> > locations, contractors can meet time sensitive deadlines
> > without noise regulation.?
> >
> > For purchasing information, call 800-251-4555 or visit
> > http://www.zapworld.com.
> >
> > Forward-looking statements in this release are made pursuant
> > to the "safe harbor" provisions of the Private Securities
> > Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that
> > such forward-looking statements involve risks and
> > uncertainties, including, without limitation, continued
> > acceptance of the Company's products, increased levels of
> > competition for the Company, new products and technological
> > changes, the Company's dependence upon third-party
> > suppliers, intellectual property rights, and other risks
> > detailed from time to time in the Company's periodic reports
> > filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
> >
> > ===
> >
> > http://www.zapworld.com/news/maces.htm
> > Electronic Transport ZAP!s CES
> > Technology Expo Jan. 9 in Las Vegas
> >
> > WHEN
> > January 9 - 12, 2003
> >
> > WHERE
> > CES - International Consumer Electronics Show, Las Vegas,
> > Nevada, 1000 annual attendees from 100 countries
> > (www.cesweb.org)
> >
> > ZAP Electronic Transport Pavilion, Booth No. 31277, South
> > Hall Las Vegas Convention Center, also selected for lobby
> > exhibition.
> >
> > WHAT
> > New line of ZAP electronic cars, including
> > freeway-capable, commercial and low-speed cars.
> >
> > New ZAP technology that triples performance of electronic
> > transport.
> >
> > New products (electric bikes, scooters, water scooters and
> > more).
> >
> > WHO
> > Steven M. Schneider, Chief Executive Officer, ZAP, 20-year
> > veteran of automotive sales and marketing, recently named
> > CEO
> >
> > ZAP (www.zapworld.com), a worldwide leader in electronic
> > transport, helped pioneer the market for electric bicycles
> > and scooters
> >
> > WHY
> > Electronic transport is the best way to power our daily
> > transportation.
> >
> > ZAP is one of the only publicly owned companies in the
> > world focused primarily on electronic transport
> > technologies.
> >
> > ZAP (Zero Air Pollution), a market leader for electronic
> > bicycles and scooters, is expanding to electronic
> > automobiles
> >
> > INFO
> > For further information, contact:
> > Alex Campbell, ZAP, (707) 824-4150 x 241 email:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit www.zapworld.com
> > Forward-looking statements in this release are made pursuant
> > to the "safe harbor" provisions of the Private Securities
> > Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that
> > such forward-looking statements involve risks and
> > uncertainties, including, without limitation, continued
> > acceptance of the Company's products, increased levels of
> > competition for the Company, new products and technological
> > changes, the Company's dependence upon third-party
> > suppliers, intellectual property rights, and other risks
> > detailed from time to time in the Company's periodic reports
> > filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
> > -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Hursch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3:13 AM
Subject: Re: gimme a brake ...
> On the Rabbit, when we did the conversion back in '94, we
> refurbished the brakes with organic linings. On my steep (~20%
> grade) hill coming down from the apt, I wanted to know if I could
> stop myself in case my front hydraulic brakes failed. So headed
> down the hill and pulled up on the emergency brake handle between
> the seats. No stop. No fastah, but no stop. The rear brake
> linings were the first to go, inside of 10K miles. Hmm, not
> good, I thought EVs were supposed to have lower maintenance...
> So, Preston, the fellow EV'er who helped me convert my vehicle,
> had had good experience with carbon-kevlar linings from
> Porterfield on his VW Vanagon.
Hi Chuck;
Please tell me more on Rabbit brakes. I'm running Jetta Rear drums on my
Rabbit, tad bigger thasn the stock ones, am looking at discs from a wrecked
Cabrolet, my local VW garu has ,and is parting out. They ARE bigger, and
need a 14 inch wheel to accomodate the larger size. Sooo, new wheels, an
tires all around,or at least in front. Do I really want to run 13's in back
an' 14's in front. Different size tires, an' all that. Havent dove into
THAT yet. Where do you get Carbon Kevlar Pads an' shoes? Who is Porterfield.
A car shop or manufacturer of replacment brake parts?
I have a pretty decent parking brake, but sure can't squeal the rear
tires with 14 T 145's riding in back! If the rotors and drums wear out
faster, Oh Well, they are dirt cheap to replace, worth it for better breaks!
I ordered up a set of shoes with
> carbon-kevlar street linings for the rear drums and we installed
> them. They have basically exceeded my expectations, and they're
> still going strong some 10K+ miles and several years later. Back
> to the hill test, and I was impressed! Yank, and come to a
> sliding stop, locking up the wheels. Can be done repeatedly and
> rather reliably, although it's tough on rear tires :-|. So I
> now felt safer against a runaway on my hill. Next up, my front
> organics ran out, except this time my inspection method failed
> me, since I was only seeing the outside shoes through the hole on
> the disc brakes up front. My mechanic had the car up on the
> hoist for the frequent CV boot replacement, and made a emphatic
> note to me that my linings (the insides) were nearly down to the
> rivets. Not good! So I had to punt and take him up on his offer
> (rather than what I was holding out for which was Porterfield
> carbon-kevlars on the front too), since he wasn't up for letting
> my vehicle out of the shop. He produced a nice set of vented and
> grooved rotors (which was another upgrade angle I was working on)
> and a set of semi-metallic "rotor eater" linings. Installed, and
> I could feel the well-known warm-up time (which wasn't long
> considering the descent from my apt). Those linings have been in
> there several years by now, and he says they're doing fine. And
> I also note that no sweat forms on my brow like it used to when I
> had a big hill descent in front of my EV. I pretty much take it
> like all the gas cars do. And when my car was down in the South
> Bay last year for an "extended period", we had the vehicle out on
> the freeway (Hi101) doing 70mph for some testing. Unfortunately,
> came up real fast on a traffic jam and all the brake lights lit
> up. It was work, but I got 'er hauled down with room to spare.
> It would help a bit if I had the vacuum assist going, but that's
> another story...
>
Wow! I'm impressed, NO vacuun assist! I ran my Rabbit WITHOUT the
vacuum assist, for the first year, my freight train running experiance, Con
Rail, came handy in planning ahead for eventual stops! But I never had a
panic stop thing Thank God! You are a brave guy! Ya must have put about 1400
lbs pedal pressure on for that one! I was afraid to let anybody else drive
my Rabbit, as they arent expecting million lb pedal pressure to get any
meaningful brakes!' Yur Electric is nice but the brakes are Terrable! " my
wife used to say. The vacuum thing was a wonderful improvment, but I want
MORE! Or less fade.
Seeya?
Bob.......Braking Story
> Bottom line is from experience I strongly recommend getting away
> from the stock crap organic linings. Our EVs put a lot of heat
> on their linings, especially if you are in hilly country. Go
> with carbon-kevlar (my first choice) or semi-metallics (the
> braking is not so good till they warm up). Porterfield likely
> does not have shoes for your S-10, but there are probably shops
> that do. Police vehicles at least used to run semi-metallics or
> some such. Maybe your Kragen metallics would be a good bet.
>
> Chuck Hursch
> Larkspur, CA
> NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:05 PM
> Subject: gimme a brake ...
>
>
> > When I put the parking brake on, it goes too close to the
> > floor to hold on steep grades, and my brake pedal goes to
> > the floor to engage. Time for new pads.
> >
> > To get a price on jsut to the pads to knows the costs if
> > I get a quote from a service center, I went to a Kragen's
> > auto store.
> >
> > They asked my if my 1985 S-10 Blazer was a 4 cyl or a 6.
> > Would there be two different brake pads that would fitt
> > on the same wheel?
> >
> > I would assume the 6 cyl would be a bigger or beefier
> > pad, I would want that for the added weight of my conversion.
> >
> > The helpful young man told me they did not offer an organic
> > pad, but did offer a 2 year pad or a metal pad with a
> > life time warrentee.
> >
> > I need some advise on replacement brake pads.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone looked at the SVR-14 that EVParts.com has listed? It is a SLA
that is being classed as a competition battery. Just wondering if it would
hold up for general EV use.
Does anyone know of a better battery in the 10-15 Ah range?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now if they would just sell ME those damn LRR tires...
On Wed, 2003-01-08 at 03:38, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> EVLN(Matra P75 EV with Michelin LRRs)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> Porsche Shows Off New SUV at Auto Show
> Tue Jan 7, 6:05 PM ET
> By ALEXANDRA R. MOSES, Associated Press Writer
> DETROIT -[...]
>
> Four French-themed concept vehicles made their North
> American debut Tuesday alongside scale models and drawings
> of other cars as part of tire-maker Michelin's design
> showcase.
>
> The full-scale vehicles and other concepts were developed in
> concert with manufacturers and individuals from 13 countries
> and featured Michelin tire designs.
>
> "Design and its twin innovation are essential to the
> creation of interesting and exciting ... vehicles," said
> Michelin Group's John Grimaldi. "Our commitment in this area
> is very strong."
>
> Renault brought two cars for the show: Koleos, which blends
> elements of a sedan with an off-road vehicle, and Vel Satis,
> a four-seat coupe.
>
> Venturi showed off its Fetish, a sleek sports car that
> offers the comfort of a touring car. And the Matra P75, a
> small van, offers functionality in an electric vehicle.
>
> Last year was the first year for the design contest, which
> featured Italian-themed vehicles. Michelin plans to continue
> the event annually, with the 2004 contest focusing on
> designing for the Chinese market and the 2005 contest on
> German design.
>
> ===
>
>
>http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/January-2003/January-2003-1/January-03-03-p1.htm
> Michelin Challenge Design(TM)
> Brings World Debut of Matra P75 to Detroit
> Environmentally-friendly electric vehicle to be displayed at
> the North American International Auto Show
> [
>
>http://www.autointell-news.com/News-2003/January-2003/January-2003-1/matra-p75-MICHELIN-CHALLENGE-DESIGN-115.jpg
> ]
> Matra P75 Photo: Michelin
>
> DETROIT - From Grand Prix racing to developing the m72,
> Matra has always liked taking well-calculated risks. At the
> upcoming North American International Auto Show (NAIAS),
> Matra will unveil its latest work, the Matra P75, a compact,
> versatile city car as part of the Michelin Challenge
> Design(TM) display in Michigan Hall.
>
> The Matra P75 is joining concept vehicles from Renault and
> Venturi as well as 10 scale models and 17 two-dimensional
> drawings selected from designers representing 13 different
> countries. Michelin will display the vehicles, scale models
> and drawings in Michigan Hall, the Michelin Media Center and
> on the main floor of Cobo Center as part of this year's
> focus on the past, present and future of French design.
>
> "Performing alongside the giants in the automobile industry
> calls for a strategic vision geared to delivering innovative
> solutions to new challenges," said John Grimaldi, president,
> Passenger and Light Truck Tires OE Worldwide for Michelin.
> "We're glad to have Matra as part of this year's Challenge
> Design. It's a French company that had the audacity to come
> up with the Espace -- a revolutionary family vehicle --
> which was launched in Europe in 1984 and became the leader
> of the MPV market it created."
>
> The Matra P75 is more than representative of French design
> -- it's a working prototype. The P75 has an
> environmentally-friendly design. An electrical traction
> chain fitted under the floor affords exceptional interior
> space for passengers along with practical functionality. The
> P75 is outfitted with Michelin low-rolling resistance
> tires.
>
> "The P75 is another example of the expertise in 'automobile
> architecture' that Matra is able to offer manufacturers,"
> said Armand Carlier, president of Matra. "In fact, we rank
> among a select group of engineering companies that can offer
> expertise across the entire vehicle development process and
> we are convinced that we are uniquely positioned to become
> Europe's leading force in engineering services."
>
> Also part of the Michelin Challenge Design display will be a
> scale model of the Matra m72, a car and motorbike hybrid
> that demonstrates that freedom and sharing goes hand-in-hand
> with the company's tradition of pioneering niche markets.
> Completely open to the environment, the m72 provides an
> excellent driving experience in a safe and fun design.
>
> "The m72 is a leisure vehicle which induces feelings of
> liberty and comfort with a surprising degree of simplicity,"
> said Jean-Louis Caussin, executive vice president at Matra.
> "While it is available to anyone over the age of 16 in
> France with a B1 driver's license, we think the North
> American market will enjoy seeing the m72 and they'll wish
> it was available here."
>
> The Michelin Challenge Design was established in 2002 as a
> way to bring forward and display significant design work
> that would not normally have the opportunity to be displayed
> at a major international auto show. At the 2002 NAIAS, works
> based upon the theme of Italian design were displayed during
> press and public days. The theme for the 2003 NAIAS brings
> together works representative of the past, present and
> future of French design.
>
> Michelin Challenge Design will display the works of 17
> individuals and companies representing 13 countries
> including Argentina, Australia, China, Colombia, England,
> France, India, Monaco, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Sweden,
> The United States and Venezuela. A six-person international
> jury reviewed more than 125 entries from 40 countries to
> select the finalists for display at the North American
> International Auto Show. (Dec 13, 2002)
>
> ===
> [ http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=Matra+P75 ]
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> So if a universal motor runs the same on ac as dc then dose it
> look to its source as a resistive load and not inductive load?
> I know there must be some inductance as we get volts converted
> to amps with PWM. I would think the inductance would go up with
> rpm.
Yet it looks like a mostly resistive load, plus some series inductance.
Most of the inductance is from the field.
No, the inductance does not change with rpm (at least not
significantly). It does drop at higher currents, though, as the field
iron moves toward saturation.
PWM doesn't depend on inductance; it works even with a purely resistive
load like a light bulb. But without the inductance, the current is not
smoothed; it just switches between full-off and full-on.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: gimme a brake ...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chuck Hursch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3:13 AM
> Subject: Re: gimme a brake ...
>
>
> > On the Rabbit, when we did the conversion back in '94, we
> > refurbished the brakes with organic linings. On my steep (~20%
> > grade) hill coming down from the apt, I wanted to know if I could
> > stop myself in case my front hydraulic brakes failed. So headed
> > down the hill and pulled up on the emergency brake handle between
> > the seats. No stop. No fastah, but no stop. The rear brake
> > linings were the first to go, inside of 10K miles. Hmm, not
> > good, I thought EVs were supposed to have lower maintenance...
> > So, Preston, the fellow EV'er who helped me convert my vehicle,
> > had had good experience with carbon-kevlar linings from
> > Porterfield on his VW Vanagon.
>
> Hi Chuck;
>
> Please tell me more on Rabbit brakes. I'm running Jetta Rear drums on
my
> Rabbit, tad bigger thasn the stock ones, am looking at discs from a
wrecked
> Cabrolet, my local VW garu has ,and is parting out. They ARE bigger, and
> need a 14 inch wheel to accomodate the larger size. Sooo, new wheels, an
> tires all around,or at least in front. Do I really want to run 13's in
back
> an' 14's in front. Different size tires, an' all that. Havent dove into
> THAT yet. Where do you get Carbon Kevlar Pads an' shoes? Who is
Porterfield.
> A car shop or manufacturer of replacment brake parts?
>
> I have a pretty decent parking brake, but sure can't squeal the rear
> tires with 14 T 145's riding in back! If the rotors and drums wear out
> faster, Oh Well, they are dirt cheap to replace, worth it for better
breaks!
>
> I ordered up a set of shoes with
> > carbon-kevlar street linings for the rear drums and we installed
> > them. They have basically exceeded my expectations, and they're
> > still going strong some 10K+ miles and several years later. Back
> > to the hill test, and I was impressed! Yank, and come to a
> > sliding stop, locking up the wheels. Can be done repeatedly and
> > rather reliably, although it's tough on rear tires :-|. So I
> > now felt safer against a runaway on my hill. Next up, my front
> > organics ran out, except this time my inspection method failed
> > me, since I was only seeing the outside shoes through the hole on
> > the disc brakes up front. My mechanic had the car up on the
> > hoist for the frequent CV boot replacement, and made a emphatic
> > note to me that my linings (the insides) were nearly down to the
> > rivets. Not good! So I had to punt and take him up on his offer
> > (rather than what I was holding out for which was Porterfield
> > carbon-kevlars on the front too), since he wasn't up for letting
> > my vehicle out of the shop. He produced a nice set of vented and
> > grooved rotors (which was another upgrade angle I was working on)
> > and a set of semi-metallic "rotor eater" linings. Installed, and
> > I could feel the well-known warm-up time (which wasn't long
> > considering the descent from my apt). Those linings have been in
> > there several years by now, and he says they're doing fine. And
> > I also note that no sweat forms on my brow like it used to when I
> > had a big hill descent in front of my EV. I pretty much take it
> > like all the gas cars do. And when my car was down in the South
> > Bay last year for an "extended period", we had the vehicle out on
> > the freeway (Hi101) doing 70mph for some testing. Unfortunately,
> > came up real fast on a traffic jam and all the brake lights lit
> > up. It was work, but I got 'er hauled down with room to spare.
> > It would help a bit if I had the vacuum assist going, but that's
> > another story...
> >
> Wow! I'm impressed, NO vacuun assist! I ran my Rabbit WITHOUT the
> vacuum assist, for the first year, my freight train running experiance,
Con
> Rail, came handy in planning ahead for eventual stops! But I never had a
> panic stop thing Thank God! You are a brave guy! Ya must have put about
1400
> lbs pedal pressure on for that one! I was afraid to let anybody else drive
> my Rabbit, as they arent expecting million lb pedal pressure to get any
> meaningful brakes!' Yur Electric is nice but the brakes are Terrable! " my
> wife used to say. The vacuum thing was a wonderful improvment, but I want
> MORE! Or less fade.
>
>
> Seeya?
>
> Bob.......Braking Story
> > Bottom line is from experience I strongly recommend getting away
> > from the stock crap organic linings. Our EVs put a lot of heat
> > on their linings, especially if you are in hilly country. Go
> > with carbon-kevlar (my first choice) or semi-metallics (the
> > braking is not so good till they warm up). Porterfield likely
> > does not have shoes for your S-10, but there are probably shops
> > that do. Police vehicles at least used to run semi-metallics or
> > some such. Maybe your Kragen metallics would be a good bet.
> >
> > Chuck Hursch
> > Larkspur, CA
> > NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
> > www.geocities.com/nbeaa
> > http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 11:05 PM
> > Subject: gimme a brake ...
> >
> >
> > > When I put the parking brake on, it goes too close to the
> > > floor to hold on steep grades, and my brake pedal goes to
> > > the floor to engage. Time for new pads.
> > >
> > > To get a price on jsut to the pads to knows the costs if
> > > I get a quote from a service center, I went to a Kragen's
> > > auto store.
> > >
> > > They asked my if my 1985 S-10 Blazer was a 4 cyl or a 6.
> > > Would there be two different brake pads that would fitt
> > > on the same wheel?
> > >
> > > I would assume the 6 cyl would be a bigger or beefier
> > > pad, I would want that for the added weight of my conversion.
> > >
> > > The helpful young man told me they did not offer an organic
> > > pad, but did offer a 2 year pad or a metal pad with a
> > > life time warrentee.
> > >
> > > I need some advise on replacement brake pads.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > > ' ____
> > > ~/__|o\__
> > > '@----- @'---(=
> > > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > > =====
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, Daewoo owns the ZAZ factory now - search for avtozazdaewoo for a picture
of the Tavria. IIRC they're horrible cars that look like the Lada Samara :)
I think Daewoo must be quite enthusiastic about EVs - they've provided gliders
to Solectria in the past. They have a nice 4-door city car here in the UK (750
cc 3cyl engine!) which I thought would make a good compact conversion, with the
right batteries. http://www.mymatiz.com/ for picture. Do you get these in the
States?
One downside - Daewoo were recently bought by GM!
Evan.
David wrote:
> Tavria, maybe? There was a guy in the Los Angeles area trying to sell
> them for EV conversions.
--- Richard Furniss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't remember the name of the car, but he said it was the same
> size as
> the first Honda's here in the USA, those little orange two door
> cars, these
> are full cars, 70 MPH, real glass and everything, brand new just
> off the
> line without engines, I think he said there were 3k delivered to
> Vegas with
> papers. His name is Miro Kefurt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm.. Wouldn't an individual be able to purchase them and assemble them as
"kit cars"? If it meets the standards for lights, horn, mirrors, etc.,
can't they be registered as homebuilt?
Tim
----------
From�:� "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> �
To�: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> �
Subject�:� Fw: Russian cars, Sentra's an' Stuff �
Date�:� Tue, 7 Jan 2003 12:18:16 -0500 �
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: Russian cars
www.okaauto.com
The LOW SPEED INCOMPLETE VEHICLE is $3,000 but you MUST be registered as a
manufacturer with EPA, DOT and your state before you can legally purchase
them (3 minimum) and when completed they must confirm to standard 500 for
low speed vehicles (See DOT regulations) MAXIMUM attainable speed MUST be
below 25 MPH or 40 km/h
OKA AUTO USA
�� Hi All;
��� Heres the response I got from OKA Auto. Ah POO! We need MORE , traffic
blocking NEV's like Iraq needs more nukes. I was thinking of a Blue Meanie
with a Russian twist. guess it's back to sniffing out the current crop of
gas rigs to find one to convert. I have given serious thought to my newer 94
Nissan Sentra, a basic plain jane 4 door sedan, the one I drove out to
Woodburn last year. Havent taken the first step, weighing it up as a gas,
but it will do 40 plus on the highway, MPG, that is, it's PLENTY fast
enough, 100 plus on Montana's Open Road. HAD to try it<g>!But I hate to cram
1400 lbs of battery into it. Evercells come to mind? Like Sheers Honda,
maybe only several hundred lbs of batteries, wouldn't need hevier
springs!?One of the guyz at work has a cute 2 door Sentra, maybe lighter
than the 4 door, I know doors are #$%^ heavy, car could be a few hundred lbs
lighter? Any thoughts? Comments on a relatively newer conversion, good
candidate, in a CAR, not interested in a truck. I know I would just belt
drive the sentras AC off the motor shaft, along with my vacuun pump
�� Cruise control: It is nice on the Sentra, and I was impressed with the
miliage increase on long flites asross country, when I set it up, and just
aimed the car, from there. Maybe it would give ya better range on an EV?
Don't know how ya would set it up in an Ev, but I'm sure it could run off a
tach setup on a Raptur. Of course you would hafta replace the heater core
with a few creramic elements. Seemless swap, as the functions work great on
the stock Sentra.Notice I didn't say anything about smoke shows, only want
to keep up with traffic, if it'll tweek the tires, so be it, but I want
something basic to get to work, or run errands, or take a few people with
me, as need be. A newer Rabbit, with the newer safety stuff, air bags and
all that. The Sentra REALLY� isn't a small car, but by US standards, SUV
land I guess it is.Maybe it has a decent CD, as it is a roundy sort of
body.Better than say the 87 I'm fixing up?Boxy as hell, on that one.
��� Seeya
��� Bob.......thinking of a newer EV
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> Something that always bugs me about this engine on-off business,
> and that is how do you keep the pollution controls, namely the
> catalytic converter, warm when the engine is not running?
Quite simply, you insulate it, and provide some means to control the
amount of heat it gets. Like your house, car, water heater, and anything
else you want the temperature controlled.
> Also oil pressure could be an issue. Starting an engine is when
> most of the wear occurs, because you don't have an oil film built up.
Modern oils are pretty good; the oil film remains for quite a while.
That's why they can get away with those stunts where they drain the oil
from an engine and run it for hours.
Another key is that with hybrids like the Toyota and Honda, the starter
are so powerful that they can spin the engine all the way up to idling
rpm before giving it fuel and spark. This way the engine has full oil
pressure before it is started. The evidence so far suggests that it
works. There are examples of both hybrids with well over 100,000 miles
on them and no engine wear-out. In fact, I notice that our Prius engine
oil is exceptionally clean, and Toyota only recommends a 7500 mile
change interval.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
