EV Digest 2539
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric Scooter
by "Schacherl Jens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Electric Scooter
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Charging Needed in SF Prior to Rally Jan 18
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
by "Humphrey, Timothy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) re: Blackhawk 400
by "VanDerWal, Peter MSgt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Electric Scooter
by "VanDerWal, Peter MSgt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Dangerous gasses (was Re: Tango battery thermal management (was:
Aquarium Chillers))
by "VanDerWal, Peter MSgt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Las Vegas EV people
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Las Vegas EV people
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Warrior info needed
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV Warrior info needed
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Ford Ranger EV transaxle is available
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) GM can't afford EVs?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) KMG Shock Absorbers.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: application of NASA supercap technology
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) 34Ah NiCd cell test
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) NTEAA Meeting: Texas Solar Panels and Winston Solar EV
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: BC-20 charger problem
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: Dangerous gasses (was Re: Tango battery thermal management
(was: Aquarium Chillers))
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: BC-20 charger problem
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: GM can't afford EVs?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: 34Ah NiCd cell test
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:51 PM 1/15/2003 -0800, Bruce EVangel Parmenter stated:
If Rich's question in the PFC-20 vs Sparrow thread,
of who is going to be the first to buy a PFC-50, has
me think what modifications need to be made to fit
a PFC-50 under the hood of a Sparrow.
If the Sparrow's hood was removed, measurements would
need to be taken to see if the PFC-50 would fit.
If it did, how hard is it to make a new hood that
would accommodate the taller PFC-50?
I've only seen a PFC-50 once, and about the only place I could think of
mounting it was on the roof in a luggage rack!
It's too wide, too long, and too tall for under the hood. You might be
able to sort-of put it up there, if the new hood had a vertical front of
about 8". It may have to bulge out over the fenders as well.
It would probably be easier to mount it on the roof.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You probably think of the EVT-168: http://www.thezero.net .
About Esarati: I never saw/heard anything from them than pretty pictures and wild
claims about range and speed. Once, they had built at least one prototype of every
model and offered short test rides in a small parking lot somewhere. Occasionally,
they design a new website and change their CEO. IMHO vaporware...
Regards, Jens
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's a shame, I REALLY Like the design, even if the claims were a bit
inflated, I'd love to have a bike that my wife and I (and our little one
when she's old enuff) could go for short day trips to the park or whatever.
And it'd make a fine commuter for me.
Oh well, I'll keep an eye on it and if it every materializes...
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
Asking if computers can think is like asking if submarines can swim.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Schacherl Jens
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Electric Scooter
You probably think of the EVT-168: http://www.thezero.net .
About Esarati: I never saw/heard anything from them than pretty pictures and
wild claims about range and speed. Once, they had built at least one
prototype of every model and offered short test rides in a small parking lot
somewhere. Occasionally, they design a new website and change their CEO.
IMHO vaporware...
Regards, Jens
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the cockpit temp control is tightly coupled to the battery mass,
there could be a problem heating the cockpit while the batteries are
cold. They would probably take a lot longer to warm up than the typical
trip duration, depending on how many kW of heat you provide of course.
You might still want/need an aux heater for the cockpit, on the batt box
exhaust, to kick in under these circumstances.
You might also want a "plasma trap" to keep that stuff out of the
cockpit in the event of an "event."
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 11:12 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
>
>
> Thomas Shay wrote:
> > I don't recall reading much about battery cooling here and I'm not
> > sure why. There must be quite a few who have battery [over]heating
> > problems. Maybe they don't realize they have a problem.
> >
> > It makes my brain tired trying to think about using
> aquarium coolers
> > or some other source of chilled water to cool batteries.
> The chilled
> > water must be delivered and its flow regulated to each
> battery. There
> > are issues with clogs, leaks, pinched hoses, valves, pumps, battery
> > temperature equalization, etc.
>
> We're trying an experimental battery heating/cooling system
> on Rick Woodbury's Tango. Let me describe it for everyone's
> comments and critique.
>
> The Tango has its 25 Optima batteries in one large box. The
> box has styrafoam insulation on all sides, so heat flow
> in/out of the box is limited.
>
> There are vents in two corners of the box, each about 15
> sq.in. in area. A squirrel cage blower forces air into one,
> which exhausts out the other. If ambient air was always at a
> suitable temperature, this is all that would be needed. It's
> not, of course.
>
> The air intake and exhaust duct into the interior of the car
> (plus some make-up air from outside). You wouldn't want to do
> this with floodeds because of the gassing and smell, but this
> is acceptable with sealed batteries.
>
> When the Tango's heater or air conditioner are running, the
> battery box air is thus automatically heated or cooled to
> whatever the driver considers "comfortable". Since lead acid
> batteries have the same basic "comfort" zone as people, this
> can manage battery temperature. (The Toyota Prius does the
> same thing to control its battery temperature). The heater or
> air conditioner can also be run when the car is parked and
> charging, to both control battery temperature and to
> preheat/cool the interior.
>
> Finally, the batteries can act as a tremendous thermal
> "flywheel". It takes many hours to raise or lower their
> temperature. For example, in winter the batteries can be
> maintained at 80 deg.F by running the heater while plugged
> into AC. When you start driving, the air coming out of the
> battery box will be close to battery temperature, instead of
> near outdoor temperature. The batteries are cooling off, but
> heating the interior in the process. Thus, the amount of
> heater power required is less.
>
> There is a more aggressive heating/cooling system as well.
> Each battery has its own 12v 15amp charger. These
> "BatChargers" are small (about 6.5" x 3" x 1"), and mount
> right on top of each battery. They are liquid cooled by a
> 1/2" O.D. hose that loops thru them. Since they are tightly
> coupled to the battery, heat can also be transferred in/out
> of the battery by the liquid coolant.
>
> The Tango has a heat exchanger that looks like a small
> radiator, but with 3 sets of lines in it. One for the
> hot-water heater, one for the air conditioner, and one for
> the liquid coolant loop for the chargers and controller. So
> again, the air conditioner or heater can be run to heat or
> cool the BatChargers and batteries.
>
> All this is probably overkill, but it provides flexibility
> and allows us to experiment to see just how much thermal
> management is needed.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -
> Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Better yet would be for the heat sink to be under a scoop open at both
ends... That would shelter it from solar loading.
For a controller, If it's toward the front of the hood, it would receive
the best air velocity... The windshield can act as an air dam (some
musclecar hood bulges open at the rear to receive higher pressure air
dammed by the windshield), while the curved hood can act as an airfoil
(half of a venturi) which accelerates the flow over the top.
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:52 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
>
>
> If Rich's question in the PFC-20 vs Sparrow thread,
> of who is going to be the first to buy a PFC-50, has
> me think what modifications need to be made to fit
> a PFC-50 under the hood of a Sparrow.
>
> If the Sparrow's hood was removed, measurements would
> need to be taken to see if the PFC-50 would fit.
>
> If it did, how hard is it to make a new hood that
> would accommodate the taller PFC-50?
>
> I have always thought a large anodized heat sink on
> the hood would look really cool and some day, high
> performance EVs would use the air flow over the hood
> to cool the hi power controller.
>
> The modified hood would change the classic look,
> but no different than the muscle cars of the 70's.
>
> They began a look of their own. Their hood was cut
> to accommodate the large blower mounted on the ICE. See
> http://madmaxmovies.com/cars/interceptor/history2.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
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> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cool idea Bruce but what about moisture leakage control. Brings up a big
can of worms. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 10:51 PM
Subject: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
> If Rich's question in the PFC-20 vs Sparrow thread,
> of who is going to be the first to buy a PFC-50, has
> me think what modifications need to be made to fit
> a PFC-50 under the hood of a Sparrow.
>
> If the Sparrow's hood was removed, measurements would
> need to be taken to see if the PFC-50 would fit.
>
> If it did, how hard is it to make a new hood that
> would accommodate the taller PFC-50?
>
> I have always thought a large anodized heat sink on
> the hood would look really cool and some day, high
> performance EVs would use the air flow over the hood
> to cool the hi power controller.
>
> The modified hood would change the classic look,
> but no different than the muscle cars of the 70's.
>
> They began a look of their own. Their hood was cut
> to accommodate the large blower mounted on the ICE. See
> http://madmaxmovies.com/cars/interceptor/history2.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I plan to participate the rally in my Sparrow this
Saturday. But, I would need charging prior to the
rally since I will be coming from Newark/Fremont area.
Could someone help out?
Ed Ang
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would these be the same worms that are brought up by the moisture from the
spring rains and appear all over the streets and sidewalks? ;-)
Sorry! Couldn't resist.
Stay Charged
Hump
>
> Cool idea Bruce but what about moisture leakage control.
> Brings up a big
> can of worms. Lawrence Rhodes......
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Has anyone ever seen/driven heard anything about this baby?
>
>http://www.motobykz.co.uk/Esarati/The_Esarati_400_Blackhawk.htm
Esarati has been taking orders for about 4 or 5 years now, promising the
whole time that production will start in about 6 months (from the time you
place the order). I think some folks have even put money down, I don't know
if anyone has gotten their money back though.
I don't know whether they are pulling a con or really believe their own
claims and are just having trouble building a bike that meets them. At any
rate I wouldn't expect to buy one any time soon (if ever).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is another one:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=803&product_id=3276
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>if one, or more, of the batteries does spill (cracking from accident, or
>unexpected vibrational stress, etc?), is there any danger of introducing
>dangerous gas into the passenger compartment? (eg: spilt acid reacting with
>any dirt/debris that may have accumulated in the box, etc?)
If you slit open an Optima YT you will get a couple drops of acid (maybe).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sam Uzi wrote:
> if one, or more, of the batteries does spill (cracking from accident,
> or unexpected vibrational stress, etc?), is there any danger of
> introducing dangerous gas into the passenger compartment? (eg: spilt
> acid reacting with any dirt/debris that may have accumulated in the
> box, etc?)
Optima batteries don't have any loose acid; they don't leak even if you
pound holes thru them. There's nothing in the box that's likely to
produce any poisonous gases even if acid did get on them.
The main risk is that the batteries gas and produce enough hydrogen to
vent. And, it would have to be a lot of hydrogen; enough to produce a
combustible or explosive mixture. With the ventilation fan running and
outside make-up air constantly diluting it, this should be a very remote
possibility.
The other risk is from a fire in the battery box. There are lots of
plastics in there, and the smoke from such a fire could be deadly. The
driver would want to get out quick if there were a major fire.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon Niessen wrote:
> Wow, I like that idea of one charger for each battery. Each one has
> much lower demands on components and could be cheaper to build. As
> well as cheaper to repair. Does each charger manage the complete
> charging algorithm? Or do you have a central controller initiate
> the control? Are you willing to share your design?
These particular chargers are prototypes, designed to be as versatile as
possible for R&D purposes. To the best of my knowldege, this is the most
sophisticated battery charging and management system ever put in an EV.
Each one has a Vicor Batmod as its power section, controlled by a Vesta
Technologies SBC2000-062 microcomputer. Once you add it all up, each one
has about $200 in materials. They are all networked together, so they
can be controlled by a central computer running Linux. There is also a
large central charger for fast bulk charging.
The BatChargers can operate autonomously, or under control of the
network. Each BatCharger reports back its individual battery voltage and
current, battery temperature, and charger temperature. The BatChargers
work both for charging when there is AC power, and when driving (powered
off the pack as a whole) to balance batteries.
I have no qualms about sharing the design, but it would have to be OK'ed
by Rick Woodbury.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
>
> At 08:07 AM 1/16/2003 -0600, Gordon Niessen stated:
> >Wow, I like that idea of one charger for each battery. Each one has much
> >lower demands on components and could be cheaper to build. As well as
> >cheaper to repair. Does each charger manage the complete charging
> >algorithm? Or do you have a central controller initiate the control?
>
> Hopefully there is something to tell you if one of the chargers has
> failed? Otherwise you will royally wreck that one battery the next time
> you drive anywhere....
Yes; in addition to everything else, we have my Battery Balancer relay
boards in it, so you can check, charge, or discharge test any individual
battery. If a charger fails, its function can be taken over by the
Balancer.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth,
Bring LOTS of money (some of the casinos needs new carpet :)) You might
be broke when you leave but you won't be bored, I will e-mail you my phone
number, I'm sure we can find some trouble to get into.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 5:52 PM
Subject: Las Vegas EV people
> You have a visitor.
>
> I will be there for fun, my significant other is there on business. I
> should be bored and broke by the 2nd day if I hit the casinos. So if
> anyone wants to show off an EV, especially a fast one (aren't there a
> few drag cars nearby?) I would love to see what others have done.
>
> I will be in town from 1/19 to 1/24/03. Drop me a note publicly or
> privately, or try my cell @603*738*4275...
>
> Even suggestions on non-gambling entertainment would be welcome.
>
> TIA,
>
> Seth
> --
> vze3v25q@verizondotnet
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
George Tylinski wrote:
> If the cockpit temp control is tightly coupled to the battery mass,
> there could be a problem heating the cockpit while the batteries
> are cold.
The heater has a 3kw element; that should be enough heat even if the
batteries were cold.
In most cars, 100% outside air is heated, blown into the passenger
compartment, and then exhausted. A normal-sized EV takes 1kw to 3kw to
provide enough heat under these conditions.
In the Tango, most of the air is taken from the inside of the car,
passed thru the battery box, then heated by the heater and blown into
the passenger compartment. Most of it then goes back into the battery
box for another pass. There is provision for some make-up air; without
it, the humidity would rise until the windows fogged (like regular cars
set to the "recirculate" position).
> You might also want a "plasma trap" to keep that stuff out of the
> cockpit in the event of an "event."
That's a good point. We allowed for screens, but forgot to put them on.
Though, the air passages between battery box vents and car interior are
fairly long.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been to the Las Vegas NEDRA drag races a few times.
It is always a good time. I am not a big gambling fan
(losing gets old) but I found there is plenty to do
without helping pay for the casino's new carpets.
See
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=vegas+non-gambling+entertainment
=====
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Roy LeMeur wrote:
> I have been trying to find a wiring diagram for an EV Warrior
> electric bike... Just got off the phone with one of the few places
> which sells parts for them and this is what I got:
> Me- Hi, I'm looking for a wiring diagram for an EV Warrior
> Them- Yes, we have them, it comes in a manual that sells for $100.00
Wasn't there someone selling surplus EV Warrior parts? I think it was
Mendelson Electronics, but don't see them in their catalog.
I am looking for a source of motors for our BEST program, for 4th-6th
graders to build electric go-kart type vehicles. Anyone have any ideas?
This place has very reasonably priced EV Warrior motors:
http://www.botparts.com/index.php?cPath=9_115&osCsid=297260af38e1b99afccb3187e93968a3
This place wants to liqudate the entire stock of Warrior parts dirt cheep!
http://divelec.tripod.com/evs1/evwarriorparts.html
These folks have all the EV Warrior electrical components, not that cheap:
http://www.industrialliquidators.com/wesell/evwarrior.html
Here they also have many parts:
http://www.tonkinbikes.com/galleryEVwarrior.html
MECI appears to be out of Warrior motors, though they do have some DC motors
at very cheap prices:
http://www.meci.com
Great wiring diagram for the Curtis 1505 here:
http://www25.brinkster.com/electricscootin/a1.htm
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 5:20 PM
Subject: EV Warrior info needed
> Hello All
>
> I have been trying to find a wiring diagram for an EV Warrior electric
bike.
>
> Me- Hi, I'm looking for a wiring diagram for an EV Warrior
>
> Them- Yes, we have them, it comes in a manual that sells for $100.00
>
That's crazy. I sell the Curtis 1505 controllers that were made for the EV
Warriors for $35 each and that includes the wiring diagram. I've emailed a
copy of the wiring diagram to Roy off list.
Dan Bortel
Thanks Dan! Great diagram.
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- Begin Message ---
All,
I'm forwarding this for the benefit of one gent who's not on the list.
If someone is interested, please reply to me off list so I'll provide
contact info.
Disclaimer: I don't benefit from this proposal, you will be dealing
directly with owner of this drive system. I uploaded the drawing of
the system he's offering here:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/ballard_a312v67.pdf (643 kb PDF file)
Victor
=================================
Doug Nelson wrote:
>
> Victor;
>
> We received the coupler today - thanks.
>
> We have an extra Ford Ranger EV tranaxle, that as far as
> I can tell is the same motor as the Siemens 1PV5135 WS14,
> but set up with a differential, an overall gear reduction of 12.5 :1,
> and two half-shaft outputs (see attached drawing). Thus, this set up
> is ideal for converting a front wheel drive vehicle (although the
> Ranger EV used these on the rear axle; these drives were also
> used in the earlier Focus fwd fuel cell vehicle conversions - they have
> since switched to an Emerson motor for the current FCVs).
>
> Would would like to get another one of your Siemens inverter
> packages, to have as a spare for our FutureTruck project, but also
> to drive one of these transaxles in our vehicle. We could probably
> use either the long or short version but would prefer the short kit.
>
> (We currently have the Visteon inverters, but the control interface is
> very difficult, and we would prefer to have two of the same type
> inverter; we already run a GE EV2000 inverter on our rear drive
> that is getting very hard to get parts for... and we know the guys
> that developed it!)
>
> So, the question is, are you interested in one of these transaxles?
> Would you be willing to trade us a Siemens inverter kit (short if possible)
> for the transaxle? We would pay to ship the transaxle to you, and you
> could pay to ship the inverter kit to us. We would be willing to forgo any
> warranty
> on the inverter, since we cannot offer you any warranty on the transaxle.
> I suppose we could ship the transaxle to you so you could inspect it and
> make sure you want it, then send us the inverter kit, with the understanding
> that if you don't want to make the trade, you will ship the transaxle back to
> us.
>
> Let me know what you think.
>
> (I realize that this probably does not make any sense for your business,
> but you might have a project (personal?) in mind that could make good
> use of this transaxle. From experience I know that gear reducers/
> differentials, etc. are the real pain in mating a high speed ac induction
> drive to
> the wheels in vehicle. The DC guys get to/have to keep the transmission...)
>
> Regards,
> Doug.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The news today is that GM posted record profits last quarter. I guess that
must be the reason they can't afford to continue the EV1 project.
David Roden
Akron OH USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found more Lectra hardware. This time it's KMG Shocks. 9 pairs. For the
back end.
62100-05300
GN125
Made in Taiwan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
Ummm Bill... it's doing the last Space heat run , lid on... but I am
getting my water tank/load bank hot before it gets Bagged and tagged.
I do have a humidity issue in here.....
20.2 amps at 235 VDC 0 amps at 238.
Off of 220 of course, with 240 on it.... more.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an Excel spreadsheet detailing the 1C discharge I did of the New
Old Stock/ Surplus aircraft starter nickel cadmium batteries available
from sg-photo.com
To make a long story short, I bought 10 to test. I recieved GE brand,
rated for 30Ah (not 34Ah as advertised) at 1C rate. So I discharged at
34 to 30A, depending on pack voltage and how hot the resistors were.
Data acquisition was by hand, but I checked current with a Fluke clamp
and with voltage drop across the shunt and used the lesser of the two
(but they were quite close). I stopped at 1.0V per cell, higher than the
0.95V advertised for 100%DOD. I got 42Ah. A pleasant surprise. I got
40Ah at 1.05V per cell.
Estimated mass is 3.25lb per cell. Works out to 37ish Wh/kg Not bad for
20 year old batteries (11/1983 build date)
So I bought more. I haven't tested them yet. They have Marathon 34Ah
cells, Saft, GE and others. They also have a few 18.2 and 13Ah cells,
some in 20packs to make 24V "modules".
I have no financial stake, and you may want to ask for all cells to be
the same manufacturer. If someone is looking for a relatively
inexpensive experiment with flooded NiCd batteries, this is worth
investigation. Not too much more than PbA, and not nearly as costly as
Saft NiCd. Interconnects will be a significant cost adder, though.
Does someone want to host the file?
Seth
--
vze3v25q@verizondotnet
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Paul Schaffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> NTEAA Members and friends,
>
> The next North Texas Electric Auto Association Meeting will be held
> on
> January 25th at 4:00pm at the Winston School in Dallas Texas. The
> Winston
> School is located at the Northwest corner of Royal Lane and the
> Dallas North
> Tollway (5707 Royal Lane, Dallas TX). The subject of the meeting
> will be a
> solar panel installation at the school sponsored by Green Mountain
> Power,
> and the Winston Solar Car that will compete in the Australian Solar
>
> Challenge in October. For more details see:
> http://www.winstonscience.org/ and www.greenmountain.com
>
> I would like to encourage everyone to attend and invite others who
> may be
> interested. This is a special treat. The Winston School is going to
> compete
> in it's second Australian Solar Challenge this fall. The high
> school
> students are responsible for every aspect of the project including
> raising
> the considerable sums of money needed for such an event. Let's show
> our
> support.
>
> We also need to talk about the 2nd EAA Chapter conference which
> will take
> place at the Tour De AZ in Phoenix on March 28,29, and 30th. They
> would like
> representation from each EAA chapter. For details see:
> http://www.eaaev.org/
>
> Hope to see you all Saturday January 25th!
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul Schaffer
> North Texas Electric Auto Association
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:33 AM 1/16/03 -0600, you wrote:
booster transformer and the charger are located in the hatchback area.
I replaced my booster transformer because of similar symptoms with the BC-20.
The transformer made a mild pop sound after I plugged in and the charger
stopped
charging.
George S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:08 AM 1/16/03, you wrote:
>if one, or more, of the batteries does spill (cracking from accident, or
>unexpected vibrational stress, etc?), is there any danger of introducing
>dangerous gas into the passenger compartment? (eg: spilt acid reacting with
>any dirt/debris that may have accumulated in the box, etc?)
If you slit open an Optima YT you will get a couple drops of acid (maybe).
When they reverse, nasty smoke comes out as the plastic burns and
the electrolyte vaporizes.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We're trying an experimental battery heating/cooling system on Rick
Woodbury's Tango. Let me describe it for everyone's comments and
critique.
The Tango has its 25 Optima batteries in one large box. The box has
styrafoam insulation on all sides, so heat flow in/out of the box is
limited.
There are vents in two corners of the box, each about 15 sq.in. in area.
A squirrel cage blower forces air into one, which exhausts out the
other. If ambient air was always at a suitable temperature, this is all
that would be needed. It's not, of course.
The air intake and exhaust duct into the interior of the car (plus some
make-up air from outside). You wouldn't want to do this with floodeds
because of the gassing and smell, but this is acceptable with sealed
batteries.
This is unwise.
If you reverse a battery, it is likely to burst or even catch
fire. If something goes wrong with the battery management system, or one of
the batteries has a problem, a burst or flaming battery is likely. The
smoke and toxic gasses would enter the passenger compartment.
Also, a vehicle with this arrangement would not be allowed on the
drag strip. The NHRA rules require that the batteries be isolated from the
driver's compartment, for just the reason stated above.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:13 PM 1/16/03, you wrote:
Sam Uzi wrote:
> if one, or more, of the batteries does spill (cracking from accident,
> or unexpected vibrational stress, etc?), is there any danger of
> introducing dangerous gas into the passenger compartment? (eg: spilt
> acid reacting with any dirt/debris that may have accumulated in the
> box, etc?)
Optima batteries don't have any loose acid; they don't leak even if you
pound holes thru them. There's nothing in the box that's likely to
produce any poisonous gases even if acid did get on them.
I have seen the results of Optima fires. It's bad. Often, one
battery will torch it's neighbors. Lots of thick nasty smoke and plasma.
Don't vent the box into the passenger compartment.
The main risk is that the batteries gas and produce enough hydrogen to
vent. And, it would have to be a lot of hydrogen; enough to produce a
combustible or explosive mixture. With the ventilation fan running and
outside make-up air constantly diluting it, this should be a very remote
possibility.
The other risk is from a fire in the battery box. There are lots of
plastics in there, and the smoke from such a fire could be deadly. The
driver would want to get out quick if there were a major fire.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My K&W/BC-20 developed an open trace, likely due to
battery acid vapors. It was repaired by K&W for $50.
Mine had similar symptoms to what you describe,
plus, it wouldn't go past 135V or so.
Good luck with the sleuthing.
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At 09:33 AM 1/16/03 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >booster transformer and the charger are located in
> the hatchback area.
>
> I replaced my booster transformer because of similar
> symptoms with the BC-20.
> The transformer made a mild pop sound after I
> plugged in and the charger
> stopped
> charging.
>
> George S.
>
=====
Bob Bath, #2 VoltsRabbit; '02 9A mulch. Black & Decker mower
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/239.html
____
/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are
you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 5:52 PM
Subject: GM can't afford EVs?
> The news today is that GM posted record profits last quarter. I guess
that
> must be the reason they can't afford to continue the EV1 project.
>
> David Roden
> Akron OH USA
>
Rite Dave! They could GIVE the EV-1's away, and still have a healthy
bottom line! But they could sell them at cost, and score a publicity hit,
especially with more conservative people. If I had their money, I would. If
they would build EV's as well as their Electro Motive Div. builds
locomotives, but they can and DID, they won't let you have one!
Seeya
Bob.............Many "Lectromotive happy miles down the trak.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have had my eye on these, and appreciate the update. I am curious about
what your interconnect plans are. I believe Ed Ang just used stainless
steel straps to build the packs in his Paseo. Also, it looks like these are
in Philly and I am in Washington (state). Since these are floodeds, does
anyone know what special requirements they have for shipping. I have only
had AGMs shipped before, which was no hassle.
damon
Interconnects will be a significant cost adder, though.
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw on the tango web site that one was in MN for a few months getting a
BMS . Did you have one of these car living at you house for a while?? Did
you get to drive it around ect.?
>
> We're trying an experimental battery heating/cooling system on Rick
> Woodbury's Tango. Let me describe it for everyone's comments and
> critique.
>
> The Tango has its 25 Optima batteries in one large box. The box has
> styrafoam insulation on all sides, so heat flow in/out of the box is
> limited.
300v ?
>
> There is a more aggressive heating/cooling system as well. Each battery
> has its own 12v 15amp charger. These "BatChargers" are small (about 6.5"
> x 3" x 1"), and mount right on top of each battery. They are liquid
> cooled by a 1/2" O.D. hose that loops thru them. Since they are tightly
> coupled to the battery, heat can also be transferred in/out of the
> battery by the liquid coolant.
are these chargers of equlizing / or bulk charge or do you controlle
them all with the BSM\?
> The Tango has a heat exchanger that looks like a small radiator, but
> with 3 sets of lines in it. One for the hot-water heater, one for the
> air conditioner, and one for the liquid coolant loop for the chargers
> and controller. So again, the air conditioner or heater can be run to
> heat or cool the BatChargers and batteries.
>
> All this is probably overkill, but it provides flexibility and allows us
> to experiment to see just how much thermal management is needed.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
>
--- End Message ---
