EV Digest 2541
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Ford's Schwartz sez Th!nk EVs are dogs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(ZAP nEV on NBC CH 11 TV)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Zenn for Montreal)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Reedley police test-drive nEVs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Takara "U" nEV)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVLN(Electric & hybrid protest rally 1/18 11am SF)
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: New Zilla controller released.
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric Scooter
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric Scooter
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: New Zilla controller released.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ups bats
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) New EV on Ebay
by "Trotman Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Seattle EV Association - Creates Pictorial 2003 calandar
by "Steven S. Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: New Zilla controller released.
by "fyrehawk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Seattle EV Association - Creates Pictorial 2003 calandar
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: New Zilla controller released.
by "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Free Tech Paper - On 4 steps to Build an EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Geoff Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Ford's Schwartz sez Th!nk EVs are dogs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.detnews.com/2003/autoshow/0301/12/a01-57887.htm
Sunday, January 12, 2003
Charles V. Tines / The Detroit News
U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham, center, said
automakers are showing "farsightedness and new innovations"
in displaying enviro-friendly vehicles next to the
high-horsepower models.
Carmakers' challenge: Green, mean machines
They try to balance buyer demands with eco-friendly future
By Jeff Plungis,, Ed Garsten and Mark Truby / The Detroit News
DETROIT -- Henry Ford once offered Model Ts in any color as
long as they were black.
Now automakers are attempting to pull off a far trickier
chromatic challenge: wrapping themselves in green with a
host of enviro-friendly initiatives, while at the same time
pumping up the horsepower hype with gas-chugging new sports
cars and trucks.
[...]
Environmentalists are trying various strategies to change
public opinion about the cars consumers should drive.
Recent advertising campaigns equating SUV ownership with
supporting terrorism and linking vehicle choice with
morality, as in "What Would Jesus Drive?" is one choice.
Another can be seen this week, as the public goes to the
auto show.
The Michigan Environmental Council and the Sierra Club are
targeting children to become "environmental deputies" by
finding the green and the dirty vehicles at the show. The
idea is to tap into the next generation of car buyers
early.
Auto companies know that younger car buyers are concerned
about environmental issues. Models targeted at "Generation
Y," like Toyota's new Scion line, the Honda Element and the
Mini Cooper, are smaller and more efficient than today's
best-selling SUVs.
Mike Schwartz, director of fuel cell programs at Ford Motor
Co. , said the now-canceled Think Electric vehicle program
taught the company that the greener vehicles it offers in
the future have to match or exceed consumer expectations.
"We don't want to put vehicles out there that people say are
dogs, but it's good for the environment," Schwartz said.
"We're not going to bank on the notion that people will
spend extra money or sacrifice performance because the
vehicle is environmentally good."
On the mixed messages of the auto show -- environmentally
friendly vehicles alongside the newest SUVs and bigger, more
powerful engines -- Schwartz noted that if all of the
vehicles sold were the extreme versions seen in Cobo Center,
it would harm the environment. But the auto show is about
building up consumer excitement.
"We have to answer the wants and needs of the buying
public," Schwartz said. "A good portion of them want that
feeling of rapid acceleration, and a big portion of them
won't stand for any slippage."
You can reach Jeff Plungis at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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EVLN(ZAP nEV on NBC CH 11 TV)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.nbc11.com/morenews/1909394/detail.html
Zap Electric Car A Hit In Vegas
Local Company Makes Affordable Gas Alternative
Scott Budman
POSTED: 6:38 p.m. PST January 14, 2003
UPDATED: 6:58 p.m. PST January 14, 2003
LAS VEGAS -- We saw a lot of unusual stuff at this year's
Consumer Electronics show. We also saw some very cool cars
-- big cars complete with computers inside, even cars set up
with video game tailgates.
But, nothing really compares with the chance to drive a new
Zap car. Completely electric, this is a vehicle to drive us
to a more energy-efficient future. But even with all that
efficiency, this car still turns heads.
Zap is a Bay Area company with an eye on the environment.
Its name stands for "Zero Air Pollution."
Its new battery lets you go anywhere, at a decent speed, for
about a penny per mile. ZAP CEO Steve Schneider told NBC11's
Scott Budman, "In a vehicle like the one we're sitting in,
the car can go 240 miles on a single charge, at 70 miles per
hour."
Budman reported that that's a lot less money than the
average driver pays. If you have about $10,000 and a plug
you can own one too.
Schneider said, "You plug into any simple wall outlet and
you are ready to go, that's how you charge it."
Electric cars are all the rage these days, Budman said, and
this is one that won't break the bank while helping you
break the gasoline habit.
Copyright 2003 by NBC11.com. All rights reserved.
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If you remove the top battery as seen in
http://www.casadelgato.com/EV/Sparrow/Mkii_20021122_6.jpg
and http://www.casadelgato.com/EV/Sparrow/PFC20-Mayfit.JPG, I am 90% certain
that I can repackage a PFC-50 to fit under the existing hood.
It would need to be a special enclosure to fit there.
I don't know what it would cost. I would expect it to be less than a $1000
increase in price over the existing PFC-50.
I would need a Sparrow for a few weeks to do fitment checks as the sheet
metal came together and to develop proper mounting brackets and ventilation.
I have reservations about the wire bend radius and ventilation requirements.
Is anyone interested enough to pay the NRE cost and loan a Sparrow for a few
weeks?
Upside is almost 80 amps of Buck Enhanced charge current.
Downside is one less optima.
Contact me off list if you wish to discuss this further.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: PFC-50 in a Sparrow installation
> At 10:51 PM 1/15/2003 -0800, Bruce EVangel Parmenter stated:
> >If Rich's question in the PFC-20 vs Sparrow thread,
> >of who is going to be the first to buy a PFC-50, has
> >me think what modifications need to be made to fit
> >a PFC-50 under the hood of a Sparrow.
> >
> >If the Sparrow's hood was removed, measurements would
> >need to be taken to see if the PFC-50 would fit.
> >
> >If it did, how hard is it to make a new hood that
> >would accommodate the taller PFC-50?
>
> I've only seen a PFC-50 once, and about the only place I could think of
> mounting it was on the roof in a luggage rack!
> It's too wide, too long, and too tall for under the hood. You might be
> able to sort-of put it up there, if the new hood had a vertical front of
> about 8". It may have to bulge out over the fenders as well.
> It would probably be easier to mount it on the roof.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Zenn for Montreal)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.canada.com/montreal/news/story.asp?id=36BB319A-98AE-4D16-A7BD-72EA02D4F09B
New electric car coming to Montreal streets
Michelle Lalonde The Gazette
The first thing that strikes you when you climb into a
little Zenn and turn the "ignition key" is what's missing.
There is absolutely no noise. No turnover, no revving,
nothing but a little light on the dashboard to indicate the
motor is running. Put it in drive, push the "gas pedal", and
away you go, accompanied by nothing but a zen-like,
meditative silence.
That's because there is not really an ignition key nor a gas
pedal at all: nothing ignites and there is no gas. This
little two-seater is completely electric; pollution and
noise free. (Zenn stands for "Zero Emission, No Noise"). It
feels a little bit like driving in a luxurious golf cart,
except that it is fully enclosed, heated, safe and as
comfortable as any small car.
The Zenn is a Neighbourhood Electric Vehicle, a new class of
cars not yet licensed in Quebec but legal in 38 U.S. states
and in Europe. It is produced by Feel Good Cars Inc., a new
company with marketing headquarters in Toronto and
engineering and testing facilities just north of Montreal in
Blainville.
All kinds of NEVs, including the Zenn, will soon appear in
neighbourhoods in and around Montreal because of a series of
pilot projects planned for the region over the next few
months and years.
Feel Good will target the robust "clean car" market in the
U.S. -- especially California -- first. But it expects to be
selling cars in Quebec within the next two years, depending
on how long it takes the province to license NEVs.
If all goes well, a new plant in Blainville will be building
Zenns within a couple of years, and helping to save Quebec's
dying automotive industry.
The Gazette is following this story. Please see Thursday's
newpaper for complete coverage.
� Copyright 2003 The Gazette
===
http://www.canada.com/montreal/news/story.asp?id=486A3119-E8A4-4DC2-A99E-4CD23360F81C
An electric revolution is almost upon us
Public transportation, Old Montreal tourism will be among
first stops for new vehicles
MICHELLE LALONDE The Gazette
Thursday, January 16, 2003
Electric cars will soon be common on streets in and around
Montreal, as the public takes part in pilot projects
expected to lead to the licensing of neighbourhood electric
vehicles in Quebec by 2004.
The Metropolitan Transit Agency plans to buy 120 electric
vehicles and make them available for public use at various
points around the city, as part of a federally sponsored
project beginning next January.
If the idea is approved by Transport Canada, public transit
users will be able to pay a premium on their transit pass,
perhaps $100 a year or so, for a smart card, which would
give them use of an electric car whenever they need one.
Off-island commuters who need a car for work could take the
train into Montreal, then rent a clean vehicle to boot
around town. Or public transit users who don't own a car
could use a NEV when necessary. They would use the Internet
or a central phone registry to reserve a car, then insert a
public-transit smart card to open the door and start the
engine.
The MTA wants the project to get as many people as possible
to stop relying on conventional cars to meet all their
transportation needs, and instead use a "cocktail" of
transportation modes, including publicly owned electric
vehicles.
This summer in St. J�r�me, a project by the Centre for
Electric Vehicle Experimentation in Quebec will lend 20 to
30 electric vehicles to members of the public to see how
they perform on real roads, driven by real people.
Quebec's Transport Department will use the results of that
project to draw up guidelines and licensing regulations for
electric vehicles.
A touring company plans to use NEVs this summer to taxi
tourists around the Port of Montreal, with its employees as
drivers and guides. Once the cars are licensed in Montreal
streets, the company, Nevtours, wants to rent them out to
the public as an alternative to cal�che rides on the streets
of Old Montreal.
The cars will be equipped with tour directions on a CD-ROM,
so drivers can go at their own pace, stop for lunch or to
shop, and then continue. The size and silence of NEVs make
them ideal for congested streets, Nevtours president Marc
Cudia said.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] � 2003 Montreal Gazette
===
http://www.canada.com/montreal/news/story.asp?id=59208715-A478-4326-9A08-C1C7B4E13D4E
Vehicles could prove well suited to Quebec
After pilot projects, local sales expected within two years.
Coming soon to a Montreal street near you: The Zenn, a
'neighbourhood electric vehicle'
MICHELLE LALONDE The Gazette
Thursday, January 16, 2003
CREDIT: JOHN MAHONEY, GAZETTE
Hugo Marsolais of Feel Good Cars Inc., which has engineering
and testing facilities in Blainville, backs up a Zenn,
priced at $11,000 to $13,000 U.S. The battery-operated
vehicle can travel 60 kilometres between rechargings, at a
top speed of 40 kilometres an hour.
The first thing that strikes you when you slip into a little
Zenn and turn the "ignition key" is what's missing.
There is absolutely no noise. No turnover, no revving,
nothing but a little light on the dashboard to indicate the
motor is running. Put it in drive, push the "gas pedal" and
away you go, accompanied by nothing but a zen-like,
meditative silence.
That's because there is not really an ignition key nor a gas
pedal at all: nothing ignites and there is no gas.
This little two-seater is battery operated, pollution- and
noise-free (Zenn stands for "zero emission, no noise").
It feels a little bit like driving in a luxurious golf cart,
except that it is fully enclosed, heated, safe and as
comfortable as any small car.
The Zenn is a neighbourhood electric vehicle, a new class of
cars not yet licensed in Quebec but legal in 38 U.S. states
and in Europe. It is produced by Feel Good Cars Inc., a new
company with marketing headquarters in Toronto and
engineering and testing facilities just north of Montreal,
in Blainville.
All kinds of NEVs, including the Zenn, will soon appear in
neighbourhoods in and around Montreal.
A series of pilot projects are planned for the region by
various private and public enterprises.
Most intriguing is a project by the Metropolitan Transit
Agency that involves putting about 120 electric cars in
parking lots and transit stations around town for commuters
who want more than public transit.
If the project is approved by the federal government, which
looks likely, it will begin next January.
These vehicles are designed for short trips at city driving
speeds. They are big enough to carry a passenger and
groceries, but small enough for easy parking.
As electric vehicles go, the Zenn might prove well-suited to
Quebec in general, and Montreal's congested streets in
particular. Priced at $11,000 to $13,000 U.S., it is an
all-weather vehicle that offers the parking convenience of a
motorcycle or moped with the safety level and comforts of a
car. It is about as long as an average SUV is wide.
Quebec has relatively cheap hydro-powered electricity, and
the batteries in these vehicles are recharged by plugging
the car into a regular 110-volt power source.
An extension cord runs from the car to any household, garage
or outdoor electrical socket. To fully charge the batteries
costs about 40 cents, and takes six to eight hours.
Though Feel Good Cars is working on a "freeway-capable"
model, the Zenn model is not meant for highway driving.
It goes a maximum of 40 kilometres an hour, more than
adequate for city driving, where statistics show traffic
moves, on average, 12 to 15 kilometres an hour.
Fully charged, the batteries will take the car about 60
kilometres before needing a recharge. They can be charged,
partially or fully, anytime and anywhere you find an
outlet.
Feel Good will target the robust "clean car" market in the
United States - especially California - first. But it
expects to be selling cars in Quebec within the next two
years, depending on how long it takes the province to
license NEVs.
If all goes well, a new plant in Blainville will be building
Zenns in a year or two, and helping to save Quebec's dying
automotive industry. There are only 10 Zenns in existence,
but Feel Good expects to sell 1,000 in 2003, its first year
of commercial operation, and ramp up to 5,000 a year by
2005.
As it stands, the engine, battery pack, heating and cooling
systems are made in Quebec, while the body is made by
Microcar, an experienced conventional car manufacturer in
France.
The Zenn is a "humble car," says Hugo Marsolais, Feel Good
Cars Inc.'s vice-president of product development.
"It has no pretensions to replace the conventional car,"
Marsolais said. "It will complement it the way your
microwave complements your oven in the kitchen."
You don't put the oven on for an hour at 375 degrees to heat
up your coffee, Marsolais says.
"So why go out for a pint of milk in a pickup truck with its
one-tonne payload capacity? It just doesn't make sense" -
financially or environmentally, he said.
He describes the Zenn as the perfect second car for people
who need to make a lot of short trips around town and don't
need to travel on the highway.
It is also ideal for young drivers who shouldn't be driving
at high speeds or anyone who cares about the environment, he
said.
Quebec has developed some expertise in electric-car
technology, partly because of Bombardier's now-suspended NEV
project. (Several members of Feel Good Cars' engineering
team come from Bombardier.)
"Now is the time to get this energy and expertise together,"
said Pierre Lavall�e, director of the Quebec Electric
Vehicle Experimentation Centre in St. J�r�me. "I really see
the Zenn as the catalyst for an electric-car market in
Quebec."
[EMAIL PROTECTED] �2003 Montreal Gazette
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EVLN(Reedley police test-drive nEVs)
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informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
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http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/5892903p-6856201c.html
Electric Patrol Reedley police test-drive electric cars as
they look to get rid of gas burners. By Donald E. Coleman
The Fresno Bee (Published Wednesday, January 15, 2003, 5:28
AM)
REEDLEY -- The Reedley Police Department's newest line of
vehicles won't be used in any high-speed chases, but the
cars' versatility promises payoffs in other areas.
"We use them for patrolling the parks, the high school
campus and our rail trail," said Sgt. Todd Lowery of seven
electric vehicles the city received to test-drive for a
year. "They're easy to maneuver, and they're street-legal on
roads where the speed limit is 25 mph or less."
The vehicles look like golf carts and have a top speed of 24
mph.
"When you're doing 24, it feels like you're flying," Lowery
said, laughing.
Reedley got the electric cars for a one-year test period
through a grant from the Pathway Research Corp. and General
Motors. The city is one of several around the Valley moving
toward alternative vehicles to help reduce air pollution in
the nation's worst air basin.
"We're all pitching in," said Don Pauley, city manager in
Kingsburg, which is leasing an electric Toyota RAV4 sport
utility vehicle. "Our goal is to experiment and eventually
divest ourselves of the gas-powered vehicles."
Pauley said the RAV4, which is being used by building
officials, was acquired through a $9,000 grant from the
California Air Resources Board and $3,000 from the San
Joaquin Valley Air Pollution Control District.
On Monday, the city received a "fancy golf cart" similar to
those in Reedley, Pauley said. It came from grants provided
by the federal government and DaimlerChrysler. Several
cities received them.
Kingsburg is using that vehicle for maintenance of the
city's parks.
"They have a lot of utility," Pauley said. "If they're
successful, we'll buy more."
Pauley said while the city would like to replace all of its
gas-powered vehicles, that would be nearly impossible
because the largest fleet belongs to the police department.
He said the electric vehicles just wouldn't be practical.
"They can't be used in a high-speed chase," Pauley said,
laughing.
Reedley does manage to use some of its electric vehicles for
police patrols.
On the first day the vehicles were used, Lowery said,
officers patrolling the 2.4-mile paved "rails to trails"
path issued a citation to a man who had been drinking and
urinating in public.
"We can use them on special details like drug busts or
burglaries," Lowery said. "They're electric and quiet. We
can sneak up on people. It's like bike patrol, only
faster."
The Reedley vehicles are equipped with six batteries and can
be charged through regular household current. They have
headlights, windshield wipers, horns and even cup holders.
When fully charged, they can run eight to 10 hours, Lowery
said.
While the police department is using four of the
golf-cartlike vehicles, they're letting the city's public
works and parks and recreation departments use the other
three.
One is used at the city's waste-water-treatment plant,
mostly for collecting water samples, said Andrew Benelli,
city engineer.
Another is used in reading commercial water meters.
"We used trucks before," Benelli said. "These are much more
maneuverable and they save gas."
Community Services Director Joel Glick said their one
electric vehicle is primarily used at the community center
and in the park.
Besides Reedley and Kingsburg, Selma uses an electric
trolley provided by the Fresno County Rural Transit Agency,
and Sanger has a 23-passenger electric bus from the same
agency.
Kern County, Tulare and the Tulare Office of Education are
also members of the zero-emissions club.
"They're environmentally friendly," Lowery said of the
electric cars. "That's important to the city. That's why we
pushed for them."
The reporter can be reached at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or 441-6360. � 2003, The Fresno Bee
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EVLN(Takara "U" nEV)
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http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Articles.asp?Article=41758&Sn=WORL
Vol XXV NO. Thursday January
'Toy' car to hit the road
Takara Co, the Japanese toymaker known for its hit Beyblade
spinning top, plans to move its production of electric
vehicles into higher gear this year with the launch of a new
model aimed at adults.
Japan's second-largest toymaker said yesterday it will
launch the new one-seater electric car, the "U", in May with
a price tag of 1.09 million yen (BD3,487) and a sales target
of 3,000 units in the first year.
The car, with an eight-hour battery charge giving it an
80-km range, can be driven on the road and has many of the
trimmings available in normal cars, including roof and trunk
space.
Buyers have the option of adding a car navigation system, a
surf-board rack, and a basket for carrying pets.
"Our electric cars have won a reputation as environmentally
friendly products. We are now aiming to provide vehicles
which fit the needs and interests of each individual,"
Takara President Keita Sato said.
The firm has received 300 orders for its first electric car,
the "Qi", which was accompanied by a "Choro Q" toy version.
The "Qi" carried a price tag of 1.29m yen.
Both the "Qi" and the new "U" model require a licence, can
be charged from an ordinary electric socket, and can reach
speeds of 60km per hour.
Electric vehicles have so far failed to take off because of
their limited driving range and long recharging times, but
Takara aims to focus on niche buyers who only use cars for
short journeys.
The cars are part of the company's so-far successful
strategy of developing toys for adults - including karaoke
systems for the home - to offset a fall in sales of
children's toys resulting from Japan's shrinking birth
rate.
In April, Takara will launch the "tu" motorbike, which can
be folded in half and used as a bicycle. The product will
sell for 190,000 yen and the company aims to sell 3,000
units in the first year.
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I don't have a warm, fuzzy feeling about EVs participating in
this rally. This sounds like an anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-SUV,
anti- mosteverything mob that won't reflect well on anyone
involved in it.
Go to the rally if you wish But leave your EV at home.
Tom Shay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Congrats Otmar.
...
Now I have more to add to my dream ...
A Sparrow with Otmar's controller and a modified
hood and PFC-50 to fit under the hood and still
keeping all 13 Optimas.
Now you can discharge and charge fast!
That that's really a Sparrow on steroids.
:-zzz
(never mind my big butt does not fit in a Sparrow)
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Roderick wrote:
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
The EVT 168 and the MoRad look a lot alike. If not identical. Must be
the Taiwanese scooter laws. Lawrence Rhodes......
The really weird thing is that they have the exact same body as the Yamaha
"Vino" two stroke. The other thing I find amusing is that they are made in
China but come with Taiwanese tires. Who'd a thunk it!
Roderick Wilde
Yeah Rod, China is excellent at copying the technology developed by others.
The best example may be their spacecraft.
Copied from Soviet technology, the next mission will take a man into space.
I bet they could make a space station bigger than the ISS in record time.
:-0
The Taiwan tires on China bikes is interesting.
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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On 16 Jan 2003 at 23:41, Roderick Wilde wrote:
> The other thing I find amusing is that they are
> made in China but come with Taiwanese tires.
Though they export a lot more than they import, China does import a few
items. Taiwan is China's second largest supplier; Japan is in first place.
After Taiwan come Korea and the US in that order.
Ironically, one of the fastest-growing sources of imports to China is Chinese-
made goods that have been repackaged or otherwise processed in some
other country. Now ^that^ is bizarre.
Lots of E-scooters are coming in from China these days. I hate to say it, but
when it comes to light EVs China is rapidly gaining on the US. Not that that
would take much, but from what I've read they're actually doing it on purpose
for their domestic market, not just for export. Imagine that whole nation
switching from bikes to filthy 2-stroke scooters and gasser cars, which will
happen if they don't implement some kind of ZEV policy. The mind boggles.
(Also, the eyes water, the nose runs, and the throat constricts. I hear
China's air is already pretty awful.)
David Roden
Akron OH USA
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----- Original Message -----
From: Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 1:43 AM
Subject: New Zilla controller released.
> Hello All,
>
> The time has come. After over two years of development work, I'm
> finally ready to release the latest version of the Zilla controllers.
> It's been terrorizing the streets around here for quite a while, I
> figure it's time to go national.
>
> Here's the PR Blitz:
>
> http://CafeElectric.com/products/z2k/
>
> Cafe Electric llc is pleased to announce the release of the new Z2K
> motor controller package.
>
Hi All;
What a beautiful thing! Way to go Otmar! When EVerybody else is bombing
out of EV's; Fraud, Crapsler, General Murders, Ioyiota, all those guys. I
can wake up this AM ,go on line and see a smiling Zilla Controller, to greet
me. Looks like something yud see on a locomotive, cuz it deals with RR
proportion POWER. Pretty packaging too. And, Oh Joy! Made in the USA, too.
We still build good stuff here. Hear my American Flag waving. Nice to know
if I wanna go racing, it's just a check book away. Or I just want a FAST EV.
Hey, don't we all?
It's through guys like Otmar an' Rich, Jerry Warfield, Lee Hart, to
mention a few, sorry if I left anyone out, that we home built guyz have Good
Stuff for strip or street, to continue our mission to show the world that
EV's can work.
As Roderick said " Who'd a thunk it"? Say 10 years ago, or 5? As
EVerybody big bails out ,we never had a better supply of EV parts to build
Great Cars.
Hope ya sell a Zillion of them!
Seeya
Bob...........let the tire smole begin!
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1sclunn wrote:
> The one UPS (12v 95lbs no name "best power") that stopped working
> has a vent/top I was able to pry off with a screw driver. The bat
> was dry and there looked like there was wax covering the plates.
Yes; the Johnson Controls UPS batteries I have are like that. You won't
see any liquid water at all on a gel. On an AGM, you can see the
fiberglass mat that separates the plates, and if you squeeze it you'll
get a little electrolyte, but it is still all absorbed like a sponge.
> Should I put water in them? And how much (they are sealed)
Weigh them. If any are light, then add water. I have been experimenting,
and added 2~4 ounces of distilled water per cell. This was enough when
it worked (the cause of failure was lack of water). When 2~4 ounces
didn't work, neither did as much as 12 ounces.
Excess water won't get absorbed; you still see liquid even after sitting
for days and several charge-discharge cycles. Excess water also
increases the battery's electrical resistance; it won't charge as fast
or at as high a current, and the voltage sags more under load.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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1sclunn wrote:
> Are the motors switched from series/parallel?
Yes. The motors are switched between series and parallel as a form of
electric transmission. In series, you double your torque per amp, but it
limits rpm. In parallel, you have more power at high rpm, but current is
too high at low speeds.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6429&item=
2400338757&rd=1
Just FYI , it's on the west coast and I'm in VA but I'm still looking.
This 1969 Porsche 912 has been converted to electric. It uses the stock
5-speed transaxle adapted to an electric motor. This car is a daily driver
and is used for all local errands. Range is about 25 miles depending on
speed, terrain, and temperature. We drive 55 on the freeway, and can hold
48 - 50 mph on the steepest freeway hills. Top speed is about 75 mph. The
donor car was a 1969 Porsche 912 with 5 speed transmission and non-power
brakes/steering. Motor is an Advance DC 8" and the Controller is Auburn 600
amp, Pulse Width Modulation, 15,000 Hz. Batteries are 18 US-125 "golf Cart"
6-volt, 220 Amp Hour. Battery Charger is a 3000 watt Russco using 120 volts
AC. Total weight if car is 3,020 lbs. (Front = 1,240#, Rear = 1780#) A
12-volt "garden tractor" battery is used with a 20 amp Todd DC to DC
converter for lighting and stereo. Construction Cost was about $9,000
including the donor car. More details available on request. Best features:
Good looks, and smooth, reliable, non-polluting, economical, guilt-free
local transportation
Trotman (EV newbee)
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--- Begin Message ---
For those of you in the North West, you may want to contact us about
acquiring one of these
full color calendars. They are $10. to include shipping and handling,
and portray most of our members fine NEVs...... (That's Northwest
E.V.s)
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 396-9189
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://slough1.home.mindspring.com/seva.html
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--- Begin Message ---
> Hello All,
>
> The time has come. After over two years of development
> work, I'm finally ready to release the latest version of
> the Zilla controllers. It's been terrorizing the streets
> around here for quite a while, I figure it's time to go
> national.
Don't you mean "Unleashed"? <grin>
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--- Begin Message ---
Nothing on the web site about the calendars.
At 10:32 AM 1/17/2003, you wrote:
For those of you in the North West, you may want to contact us about
acquiring one of these
full color calendars. They are $10. to include shipping and handling,
and portray most of our members fine NEVs...... (That's Northwest
E.V.s)
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 396-9189
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://slough1.home.mindspring.com/seva.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Mmmmm... Three of these in the Ghia and I'd never be able to squeeze in
enough motor to stress them. What an awesome predicament!
Congrats, Otmar!! You are truely the controller god!!
A very heartfelt thank you on behalf of all of us EVers and wannabees...
Steve
> Hello All,
>
> The time has come. After over two years of development work, I'm
> finally ready to release the latest version of the Zilla controllers.
> It's been terrorizing the streets around here for quite a while, I
> figure it's time to go national.
>
> Here's the PR Blitz:
>
> http://CafeElectric.com/products/z2k/
(snip)
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Z2K controller, now available.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
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At 01:00 AM 1/17/03, you wrote:
Joe Smalley wrote:
> If you had a heat exchanger, you could transfer the heat between the
> two compartments without mixing the air. You could have your heat
> transfer and still have safe air to breathe in case of a battery
> fire or rupture.
We may go with either of these approaches (use liquid to transfer the
heat, or an air/air heat exchanger). The system we have is partially a
consequence of the way the prototype Tango is designed.
Since the passenger compartment is above the battery pack, you
could use my favorite device, a heat pipe (thermal syphon) to move heat
from the pack to the heater core.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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A
Interesting. What would one do to induce an Optima to catch fire? Simply
reversing it isn't enough. I'd guess you have to reverse it *and* force
a high current to flow through it?
Well, when you reverse it, you often do force high current through
it.
Keep in mind that you only need to reverse one cell to cause a
fire. In the case of a reversal, the cell must first dry out by boiling off
all the electrolyte and then if the conditions are right it will catch fire.
The likelihood of a fire is linked to the pack voltage. If you
have a low pack voltage, say 48 volts, you may not have enough voltage to
strike an arc across a the dry cell. The cell will then appear as an open
circuit and current will stop flowing, arresting the process. It takes
something like 100 volts to strike the arc across dry cell (this is a rough
estimate.) Once you strike the arc, and you keep it going, the battery will
flame. It doesn't take a lot of voltage to sustain the arc, just to strike it.
On a low-voltage car, it is very rare to get a battery fire. As
you raise the voltage the odds of a battery fire increase. With lots of
batteries in series, have the voltage to strike the arc, and the kW-hrs to
feed it and keep it going.
A failed cell interconnect at high current might also do it.
That is one cause for smoke and melt-down, but typically doesn't
cause a fire.
Have you had any such failures? What conditions were necessary to induce
it?
The battery management system ought to make such failures less likely.
A BMS will reduce the frequency, but will not eliminate the
problem by any means. A BMS will not repair a defective battery or cell.
> Also, a vehicle with this arrangement would not be allowed on the
> drag strip. The NHRA rules require that the batteries be isolated
> from the driver's compartment, for just the reason stated above.
Well, it would be easy to slide a metal plate under the seat to block
the air intake and exhaust from the interior. Then the battery box would
be strictly vented outside the vehicle.
That is correct.
Aside from rules pertaining to high speeds and the perils of
racing fuels and engines, the safety rules for drag racing are probably a
minimum for a consumer vehicle. If Joe and Mary Consumer are driving along
with Baby Consumer in a car seat, a design that allows smoke to fill the
passenger compartment is likely to end up in an accident and a lawsuit
(that you will lose.)
Also, there is acid vapor in the vent gasses. This would not be
very good for the interior.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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--- Begin Message ---
This paper details the 4 major steps from deciding to build an EV to
installation and testing. It was presented with Seth Murray, a high school
student, at NESEA's Energy in Schools Conference on November 14-15, 2002.
Seth converted an S10 and entered the ATdS winning a number of awards. The
email paper has links to Seth's pictures showing S10 construction, the ATdS
race, and how he survived a major accident.
A free copy of "Do It Right the First Time" is available from
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Vehicles of America, Inc. (EVA) is the leader in EV Safety with the
use of Anderson SBX connectors, the First Inertia switch, dual contactors,
and more. A paper describing safety is available also free. Its title is
"Safety First".
Just email your request to -------- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please do not send your request to the EV Digest.
We send our catalog with all technical paper requests.
"Anyone can build an EV - but building great EVs
requires experience and engineering."
Bob Batson P.E.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Free Offers at Home Page
www.EV-America.com
Electric Vehicles of America, Inc. (EVA)
Tel# 603-569-2100
Fax# 603-569-2900
11 Eagle Trace
P.O Box 2037
Wolfeboro, NH 03894
***********************************
Authorized Distributor for Advanced DC Motors,
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Albright Contactors, and other EV component manufacturers.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a thought to throw out... I have seen "arc sensing" circuit
breakers that will break the circuit when arcing is detected, even
though it is below the trip current of the breaker. These have been
recommended for older homes that still have circuits with old wiring.
Although those are meant for AC application, would there be a way to do
something similar for high-voltage DC?
One thing I have picked up from studying my factory-built Ford Ranger
EV is the notion of an EPO, or Emergency Power Off command. Just about
any module can request EPO, including the impact sensor (normally used
to cut power to a fuel pump) and the BMS (if it detects a significant
current leakage path between the pack and the frame). The EPO signal
drops the main contactors, one each on the positive and negative of the
pack. The contactors are inside the battery box, so there will be no
live high-voltage lines outside of the pack. An arc-detection module
could then just trigger an EPO (either a hardware line or a command on
the network).
It seems a BEV would have an upper-hand when it comes to detecting and
actually stopping a dangerous situation before the damage gets
out-of-hand. It's a matter of reliably detecting things going wrong,
whether it is during charging, or while on the road.
--
Geoff Shepherd
'98 OEM Ford Ranger EV 312v
'00 Honda Insight 144v
http://www.geoff.shepherd.com
On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 11:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The likelihood of a fire is linked to the pack voltage. If you
have a low pack voltage, say 48 volts, you may not have enough voltage
to strike an arc across a the dry cell. The cell will then appear as
an open circuit and current will stop flowing, arresting the process.
It takes something like 100 volts to strike the arc across dry cell
(this is a rough estimate.) Once you strike the arc, and you keep it
going, the battery will flame. It doesn't take a lot of voltage to
sustain the arc, just to strike it.
On a low-voltage car, it is very rare to get a battery fire.
As you raise the voltage the odds of a battery fire increase. With
lots of batteries in series, have the voltage to strike the arc, and
the kW-hrs to feed it and keep it going.
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